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    Thread: Electronic Stability Control - How to turn off/disable?

    1. 07-08-2012 06:23 PM #326
      Quote Originally Posted by jsausley View Post
      Basically what you're asking for is your AWD hot hatch to become a track day monster. For old M3s and whatnot this was possible but VW seems to have decided for you that your R won't be able to convert to a full on track/race car without a massive overhaul that would make it unsuitable for daily use.

      Go track your R, have fun and when and if you do improve to the point where you start to consider stripping the interior and putting R-comps on it, get yourself something more suitable to real track time. I won't even begin to go into those options because there are so many. My choice may be a Caterham or something like that, in the next few years.
      that's not what I'm asking for.

      What I am asking for is a car that I can put track tires, a height adjustable suspension, and brake pads on and go to the track and run at 9/10's for hours and drive home with the ac on. Do I really need a race car to do that?

      When I have gone to hpde's, it seems that there are quite a few people who agree with me, including instructors who have not gone with a dedicated track car.

      The golf r is not that car. I get it. What I don't get is the fact that the reason it's not is a programming choice.

    2. Member HardKnox's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 09:58 AM #327
      Quote Originally Posted by Doedrums View Post
      Ok, in nut shell...you can't alter a federally mandated safety device, period. Go ahead, do it and get caught. Then see what the Feds do to you. And to all the folks who keep bringing up "But BMW's ESP can be turned off!". The OEMs have a choice of what type of system they offer. If VW had chosen to give us a multi-stage or fully defeatable system, fine. They didn't and it will not change. VW is never going to update the cars to ROW specs. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
      So the answer to my question is, "no." Thanks.

    3. Member BlazinVR's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 11:31 AM #328
      hmm... i think i might have to consider getting an evo now
      MK4 Forum:
      Quote Originally Posted by SaleenEatedUrVDubb View Post
      Hey guys I have a 2.0 but I can't really hear my Turbo. What BoV should I get?

    4. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 12:33 PM #329
      Whenever this topic comes up it astounds me at how many people are ok with a corporation making the decision to protect you from yourself.
      Scotch. It's time.

      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      You can promote hate with pencil as you do with a gun. For me they are both the same.
      Frightening ideology, no?

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      07-11-2012 12:55 PM #330
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      Whenever this topic comes up it astounds me at how many people are ok with a corporation making the decision to protect you from yourself.
      Are they actually protecting you or are they protecting themselves from you?

      B.

    6. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 01:04 PM #331
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      Are they actually protecting you or are they protecting themselves from you?

      B.
      One facilitates the other. Sematics aside, they made a decision to put their concern for liability over the satisfaction of their consumers without any legal need to do so. If they were following suit with other manufacturers I'd have less of a problem with it. However, they seem to want to lead the charge to neuturing driver cars. I can't have any respect or understanding for that.
      Scotch. It's time.

      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      You can promote hate with pencil as you do with a gun. For me they are both the same.
      Frightening ideology, no?

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      07-11-2012 01:30 PM #332
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      One facilitates the other. Sematics aside, they made a decision to put their concern for liability over the satisfaction of their consumers without any legal need to do so. If they were following suit with other manufacturers I'd have less of a problem with it. However, they seem to want to lead the charge to neuturing driver cars. I can't have any respect or understanding for that.

      Different companies have different tolerences for percieved risk. It is what it is...

      The fact you don't see as many people upset about it on this board shouldn't be a surprise since we all pretty much voted already by buying the car.

      Primary point being that you as a consumer still have the trump card to vote with your wallet, if the percieved overstepping of corporate liability and consumer choice is so important than there are other cars out there to purchase.

      I do get/understand the frustration, but to me the ESP issue was more of a "nice to have" and was not a deal breaker; thus my car sitting outside.

      But I still maintain a workable solution will be discovered (if it has not already)......Hopefully sooner rather than later.

      B.

    8. Member Dantescrub's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 07:41 PM #333
      The fact you don't see as many people upset about it on this board shouldn't be a surprise since we all pretty much voted already by buying the car.

      Primary point being that you as a consumer still have the trump card to vote with your wallet, if the percieved overstepping of corporate liability and consumer choice is so important than there are other cars out there to purchase.

      ^:

      I am amazed at how much of an issue this has become. There are plenty of other cars out there and perhaps this may not be the car for some if this is such a sore point. You guys in the US do realize that your R is the lowest priced in the world and perhaps VW is choosing to protect themselves for whatever reasons that may seem justified for themselves.

      The cost of entry for Canadians is 40K+ for an R. A loaded Euro Spec would be 55K+ US. How many of you would have bought this car at those prices. So you can't disable your TC but you paid less than the ROTW for your car. It's your choice on where you spend your money. If this was a deal breaker for current owners, perhaps you did not do your research before you laid down your 32 to 36K. This information has been out for a while. If you bought an R for occasional track days knowing this then that is really not VW's problem.

    9. Member Dantescrub's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 07:48 PM #334
      Quote Originally Posted by Dantescrub View Post
      The fact you don't see as many people upset about it on this board shouldn't be a surprise since we all pretty much voted already by buying the car.

      Primary point being that you as a consumer still have the trump card to vote with your wallet, if the percieved overstepping of corporate liability and consumer choice is so important than there are other cars out there to purchase.

      ^:

      I am amazed at how much of an issue this has become. There are plenty of other cars out there and perhaps this may not be the car for some if this is such a sore point. You guys in the US do realize that your R is the lowest priced in the world and perhaps VW is choosing to protect themselves for whatever reasons that may seem justified for themselves.

      The cost of entry for Canadians is 40K+ for an R. A loaded Euro Spec would be 55K+ US. How many of you would have bought this car at those prices. So you can't disable your TC but you paid less than the ROTW for your car. It's your choice on where you spend your money. If this was a deal breaker for current owners, perhaps you did not do your research before you laid down your 32 to 36K. This information has been out for a while. If you bought an R for occasional track days knowing this then that is really not VW's problem.
      Props to bsmith75 for quote above my response above

    10. Member velocity196's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 08:08 PM #335
      Quote Originally Posted by BlazinVR View Post
      hmm... i think i might have to consider getting an evo now
      Do it man! Save an R for someone who really wants one. No posers needed
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    11. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 09:10 PM #336
      Quote Originally Posted by velocity196 View Post
      Do it man! Save an R for someone who really wants one. No posers needed
      So someone that has an issue with an aspect of the car is a poser? You're silly.
      Scotch. It's time.

      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      You can promote hate with pencil as you do with a gun. For me they are both the same.
      Frightening ideology, no?

    12. 07-11-2012 09:16 PM #337
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      So someone that has an issue with an aspect of the car is a poser? You're silly.
      On your side here dude. If anything, I feel like a poser for having defeatable ESC and i don't have a clue how to take advantage of it. I actually envy the guys begging for it just cause I am sure they have a lot more fun than I do behind the wheel.

      Sent via Nerdroid mobile.

    13. Member velocity196's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 09:30 PM #338
      To sum my opinion up for ya guys, if your not buying an r cuz you love every part of it and you would consider buying a different brand, then yes in my opinion your a poser. I've been building vw's since back in the mid 90's. Sure some have been doing it for longer some have not. These are more than "just a car" for me and most of my friend that know me. I'm not a hateful person if fact i way more helping other people with their project than anyone here knows. This is a life style for us not a fad that comes and goes. I truly am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but please, if your not into please leave and don't look back. Save the best vw that has ever come states side for someone who really appreciates what they have. Cheer and good luck with your mustang and evo's.
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    14. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 08:06 AM #339
      Quote Originally Posted by Dantescrub View Post
      I am amazed at how much of an issue this has become. There are plenty of other cars out there and perhaps this may not be the car for some if this is such a sore point.
      So, by this reasoning, you can't complain about anything that has to do with a car that you've purchased because, well, you should just buy a different one. Got it.

      Quote Originally Posted by velocity196 View Post
      To sum my opinion up for ya guys, if your not buying an r cuz you love every part of it and you would consider buying a different brand, then yes in my opinion your a poser.
      So cross shopping cars makes you a poser. Got it.


      This place never ceases to amaze me.
      Scotch. It's time.

      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      You can promote hate with pencil as you do with a gun. For me they are both the same.
      Frightening ideology, no?

    15. Member BlazinVR's Avatar
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      07-13-2012 08:43 PM #340
      Quote Originally Posted by velocity196 View Post
      To sum my opinion up for ya guys, if your not buying an r cuz you love every part of it and you would consider buying a different brand, then yes in my opinion your a poser. I've been building vw's since back in the mid 90's. Sure some have been doing it for longer some have not. These are more than "just a car" for me and most of my friend that know me. I'm not a hateful person if fact i way more helping other people with their project than anyone here knows. This is a life style for us not a fad that comes and goes. I truly am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but please, if your not into please leave and don't look back. Save the best vw that has ever come states side for someone who really appreciates what they have. Cheer and good luck with your mustang and evo's.
      "save the best VW that has ever come states side" - it's a great car, but it's definitely not worthy of the "R" nameplate. R is usually associated with something extreme/amazing. IMO, the Golf R is just a GTI with AWD and a little more power. now if we had the Recaro's and defeatable ESP that the european R's have, that would be a whole different story. the carbon buildup issue that these motors have isn't really the biggest turn on either. here's what FSI intake valves look like after 60k miles:
      Last edited by BlazinVR; 07-13-2012 at 08:45 PM.
      MK4 Forum:
      Quote Originally Posted by SaleenEatedUrVDubb View Post
      Hey guys I have a 2.0 but I can't really hear my Turbo. What BoV should I get?

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      07-13-2012 08:52 PM #341
      Quote Originally Posted by BlazinVR View Post
      "save the best VW that has ever come states side" - it's a great car, but it's definitely not worthy of the "R" nameplate. R is usually associated with something extreme/amazing. IMO, the Golf R is just a GTI with AWD and a little more power. now if we had the Recaro's and defeatable ESP that the european R's have, that would be a whole different story. the carbon buildup issue that these motors have isn't really the biggest turn on either. here's what FSI intake valves look like after 60k miles:

      On the carbon note... That looks no bueno. Have there been any issues heard of because of this? I dont even have my R yet(on the boat heading over right now), so tips like this are helpful so I can keep a watchful eye

      -Kyle
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    17. Member BlazinVR's Avatar
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      07-13-2012 09:22 PM #342
      Quote Originally Posted by Sound-Side Pitbulls View Post
      On the carbon note... That looks no bueno. Have there been any issues heard of because of this? I dont even have my R yet(on the boat heading over right now), so tips like this are helpful so I can keep a watchful eye

      -Kyle
      you'll know when it's an issue because the car will feel slower (or laggier) and it'll eventually throw a check engine light. the FSI and TSI motors are direct injection, so the intake valves are no longer being "cleaned" by the mist of fuel that travels through on a normal motor.
      Last edited by BlazinVR; 07-13-2012 at 11:28 PM.
      MK4 Forum:
      Quote Originally Posted by SaleenEatedUrVDubb View Post
      Hey guys I have a 2.0 but I can't really hear my Turbo. What BoV should I get?

    18. Member velocity196's Avatar
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      07-14-2012 01:53 AM #343
      Quote Originally Posted by BlazinVR View Post
      "save the best VW that has ever come states side" - it's a great car, but it's definitely not worthy of the "R" nameplate. R is usually associated with something extreme/amazing. IMO, the Golf R is just a GTI with AWD and a little more power. now if we had the Recaro's and defeatable ESP that the european R's have, that would be a whole different story. the carbon buildup issue that these motors have isn't really the biggest turn on either. here's what FSI intake valves look like after 60k miles:
      Those fools forgot to refill their meth tank . I understand your point, but in reality your only talking about a set of seats and a button that stops you from turning yourself into a hazard on the streets. Don't lie, you and everyone else bitching about the ESP issue just wanna have late night fun. Its all good tho, I like having my fun also. I could care less about my seats at this point. There are far more interesting things to get my hand on than seats and a ESP switch. Besides, it was THAT important to you you would bend down and unplug an abs sensor or get your lappy and do some code changes. Oh by the way I've got eurodyne maestro coming and if I remember right abs can be switched off in the programing.
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      07-14-2012 02:11 AM #344
      I thought what people wanted was to turn off ESC but keep ABS on... no?

    20. Member Lamfalus's Avatar
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      07-14-2012 02:21 AM #345
      Quote Originally Posted by os2firefox View Post
      I thought what people wanted was to turn off ESC but keep ABS on... no?
      ABS does stay on and still work. The only comment I saw negative was that it seemed to affect haldex function too.
      Past - 2001 GTI 1.8T, 1997 Jetta GLX VR6
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      07-14-2012 07:28 AM #346
      I was pretty impressed with how much fun the car was while recently going over a local mountain in the rain. I left ESC on and got understeer and oversteer without any major take over from the electronics. On the way back (in the dark and much less water on the road) I shut it off and pushed even harder. Not once did I see it come on. I don't plan on tracking my R but if I did I'm sure it would be coming on when at or above the limit of the stock tires but on the street with it on you can still have a butt load of fun. By the way, the car is stock and the Pirellis have 16K miles. Tire pressures were a bit high since I do a lot of highway driving. I'm posting this primarily to those who are considering an R or haven't taken delivery of theirs yet. The ESC seems to be tuned with a high tolerance and this video shows how much you can push the car with it on.

      1:13 - a bit of understeer when the front left got on the paint. ESP flashed but it didn't intervene to the point I felt it unbalance the car.

      4:29 - I cross the yellow to give a cyclist a lot of room.

      4:50 - a bit of oversteer when I lifted (intentionally). The right side tires kissed the grass and even then the ECS didn't jerk the car with it's intervention. It flashed twice and I felt nothing change in the car.

      http://youtu.be/UTDmpZYFEwI
      Daniel Parker

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      07-17-2012 07:00 AM #347
      So I turned off the ESC last night and went out and tried to get the light to flash, threw out the back end out under hard power on a couple of corners for a couple of nice power slides( wheels spinning) the light never flashed and the car was fun. I do have a stage 2+ flash , I don't know if that makes a difference. ABS was working as I checked .
      Seems like the car is good enough for me as is with the traction control off. I do time attack with a subaru and race my 911 on the track as well so I do sorta know how to drive.

    23. Forum Sponsor Brendan@bwalkauto's Avatar
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      07-17-2012 02:38 PM #348
      Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Parker View Post
      I was pretty impressed with how much fun the car was while recently going over a local mountain in the rain. I left ESC on and got understeer and oversteer without any major take over from the electronics. On the way back (in the dark and much less water on the road) I shut it off and pushed even harder. Not once did I see it come on. I don't plan on tracking my R but if I did I'm sure it would be coming on when at or above the limit of the stock tires but on the street with it on you can still have a butt load of fun. By the way, the car is stock and the Pirellis have 16K miles. Tire pressures were a bit high since I do a lot of highway driving. I'm posting this primarily to those who are considering an R or haven't taken delivery of theirs yet. The ESC seems to be tuned with a high tolerance and this video shows how much you can push the car with it on.

      1:13 - a bit of understeer when the front left got on the paint. ESP flashed but it didn't intervene to the point I felt it unbalance the car.

      4:29 - I cross the yellow to give a cyclist a lot of room.

      4:50 - a bit of oversteer when I lifted (intentionally). The right side tires kissed the grass and even then the ECS didn't jerk the car with it's intervention. It flashed twice and I felt nothing change in the car.

      http://youtu.be/UTDmpZYFEwI
      I saw no oversteer.

      Looks like a fun road.
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    24. Member VWPDX's Avatar
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      07-17-2012 04:30 PM #349
      Quote Originally Posted by watsonj0 View Post
      So I turned off the ESC last night and went out and tried to get the light to flash, threw out the back end out under hard power on a couple of corners for a couple of nice power slides( wheels spinning) the light never flashed and the car was fun. I do have a stage 2+ flash , I don't know if that makes a difference. ABS was working as I checked .
      Seems like the car is good enough for me as is with the traction control off. I do time attack with a subaru and race my 911 on the track as well so I do sorta know how to drive.
      Soundaktor still in?

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      07-17-2012 06:12 PM #350
      From the article on VW 2013 MY changes on the front page of Vortex......


      On the smaller changes there are a few which are noteworthy. The ability to turn off the ESP has also been added back into the GTI and GLI models.

      Hmm no mention of the Golf R.

      Carry on.

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