Electronic Stability Control - How to turn off/disable?

[xalfa]

UWhile I understand TechEd's point and the fact that it does apply to 99% of all drivers (yes, most people aren't as skilled as they believe, even during track days). However, there are still the 1% that can drive the isht out a car and would like to fully defeat all aids.

And the Golf R is, in theory, intended for that 1% market segment. For the other 99% there are plenty of other VWs, and even Golfs, in various flavors. Have to agree with the somewhat douchey guy in the review video - if you are going to put an R badge on a car, you need to follow through completely.

[DudeLePowSki]

Why would APR have to look into providing a fully disablable option if in fact the Euro versions have it already? Wouldn't it be more efficient to simply flash a Euro program for the ESP? This leads me to believe that the Euro version and the US version are exactly the same and that somewhere along the way the word 'disable' got lost intranslation.

Also, in this video I am guessing that in the first half the guy is driving with the ESP engaged and in the second half he has it disabled. If this is the case, it looks to me like driving with the ESP engaged is more fun for a driver with my skill set.

[BsickPassat]

it's hard to see the tires in the clip

a good set of snows will allow the ESP system to work at it's fullest

if it had the all season pirellis or dunlops ..... that could have allowed for all that drifting

[VWPDX]

Why would APR have to look into providing a fully disablable option if in fact the Euro versions have it already? Wouldn't it be more efficient to simply flash a Euro program for the ESP? This leads me to believe that the Euro version and the US version are exactly the same and that somewhere along the way the word 'disable' got lost intranslation.

Also, in this video I am guessing that in the first half the guy is driving with the ESP engaged and in the second half he has it disabled. If this is the case, it looks to me like driving with the ESP engaged is more fun for a driver with my skill set.

The Euro versions actually don't have it. As demonstrated by the Cupra vs. R video, stability control gives drivers the illusion they are going horribly slow. I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased. Look at the VW/Audi/Volvo R line. Are they really that extreme? Its a model not a spec. As a whole reviewers and tcl types don't understand the appeal. "I don't get it. Its slower than a STI." "I know the interior is nice, but I can get an A3 for that price."

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[DudeLePowSki]

The Euro versions actually don't have it. As demonstrated by the Cupra vs. R video, stability control gives drivers the illusion they are going horribly slow. I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased. Look at the VW/Audi/Volvo R line. Are they really that extreme? Its a model not a spec. As a whole reviewers and tcl types don't understand the appeal. "I don't get it. Its slower than a STI." "I know the interior is nice, but I can get an A3 for that price."

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Fantastic point. Finally we can put to rest the difference in ESP between Euro and US versions.

Also, the above European test driver is ripping it up with the same ESP options as the US version. If in fact snow tires (= traction in snow) do make the ESP operate to it's fullest in snowy conditions, I'd tend to side with TechEd in the fact that proper tires for performance oriented driving (on a dry track) do contribute to high performing, fun track runs with ESP engaged.

STOKED.

[12vdubber]

ASR is a fuel cut
EDL is brake based, only up to 25 mph

ASR worked through the brakes.. fuel cut was only if that didn't work or at higher speeds.

I could make that light flash on wet roads and never felt fuel cut... b/c it was at low speeds.

[DaLeadBull]

The Euro versions actually don't have it. As demonstrated by the Cupra vs. R video, stability control gives drivers the illusion they are going horribly slow. I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased. Look at the VW/Audi/Volvo R line. Are they really that extreme? Its a model not a spec. As a whole reviewers and tcl types don't understand the appeal. "I don't get it. Its slower than a STI." "I know the interior is nice, but I can get an A3 for that price."

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Fantastic point. Finally we can put to rest the difference in ESP between Euro and US versions.

Also, the above European test driver is ripping it up with the same ESP options as the US version. If in fact snow tires (= traction in snow) do make the ESP operate to it's fullest in snowy conditions, I'd tend to side with TechEd in the fact that proper tires for performance oriented driving (on a dry track) do contribute to high performing, fun track runs with ESP engaged.

STOKED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4D7IYOxUxY

If this is the video you guys are referring to, then look at the post date. It's from 2010.

I thought the 2 stage ESP was only available in 2012 models in ROW Golf R's.

[webcrawlr]

The Euro versions actually don't have it. As demonstrated by the Cupra vs. R video, stability control gives drivers the illusion they are going horribly slow. I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased. Look at the VW/Audi/Volvo R line. Are they really that extreme? Its a model not a spec. As a whole reviewers and tcl types don't understand the appeal. "I don't get it. Its slower than a STI." "I know the interior is nice, but I can get an A3 for that price."

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Again, that's not the point. It's not what's faster or slower. It's not what's more safe or more risky. It's give me the choice! That's it. Plain and simple. It's not unheard of and it's not "ego-driven, group-think rubbish". Other cars from other manufactures in the same segment as the R give the driver the choice.

[BsickPassat]

ASR worked through the brakes.. fuel cut was only if that didn't work or at higher speeds.

I could make that light flash on wet roads and never felt fuel cut... b/c it was at low speeds.

EDL = brakes and is limited to a certain speed. fwd = 25 mph, haldex 4motion may be higher

asr = fuel cut, works at all speeds

with ESP.... that's brakes

[surefooted]

To the question of whether the ROW cars disable ESP...

Volkswagen has equipped its most potent Golf GTI and R models and its entire Scirocco range with a new ESP system that allows the driver to fully disable electronic aids.
VW has responded to criticism from media and customers that said the models were not adjustable or sporting enough, were too sensible compared with rivals and did not allow the driver full control of the vehicle.

All 2012 model year Sciroccos and Golf GTIs and Rs built from May will be fitted with the new system and will reach showrooms from July. The new ESP set-up is a two-stage system that controls traction control and braking. Pressing the ESP off button once will disable the traction control, while holding it in for more than three seconds will fully disable both traction control and electronic braking systems.

The system will only cut back in should the driver press the brake pedal in the middle of an ‘emergency’, be it if control of the vehicle is lost by the driver or if they want the car to straighten up by itself. If the brake pedal is not depressed by the driver the ESP system will remain inactive.

The new ESP system is a standard fit to all Scirocco models, plus the Golf GTI and R, and is available for no extra cost over the standard car. There are no plans to fit to the Polo GTI at this stage however.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/255389/

[DudeLePowSki]

Again, that's not the point. It's not what's faster or slower. It's not what's more safe or more risky. It's give me the choice! That's it. Plain and simple. It's not unheard of and it's not "ego-driven, group-think rubbish". Other cars from other manufactures in the same segment as the R give the driver the choice.

I can respect that opinion for sure. If the Euro version does have full disable then get your car flashed with the Euro code for the ESP. Simple fix not worth arguing at this point considering the lengths at which people have gone to replace simple Euro car specs like LED lights.

[Arin@APR]

We have both a US and Euro Golf R at APR right now. I'll see if either offer full ESP disabling through the ESP button.

[Dutchmastr9]

We have both a US and Euro Golf R at APR right now. I'll see if either offer full ESP disabling through the ESP button.

yay Arin

[DaLeadBull]

We have both a US and Euro Golf R at APR right now. I'll see if either offer full ESP disabling through the ESP button.

What model year is the euro version?

I think only the 2012 euro R's came with the fully-defeatable ESP.

[webcrawlr]

What model year is the euro version?

I think only the 2012 euro R's came with the fully-defeatable ESP.

According to the article posted a couple above here it's 2012's built in May and forward. No one should have the 2 step ESP yet.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post76340239

[BlazinVR]

"All 2012 model year Sciroccos and Golf GTIs and Rs built from May will be fitted with the new system and will reach showrooms from July. The new ESP set-up is a two-stage system that controls traction control and braking. Pressing the ESP off button once will disable the traction control, while holding it in for more than three seconds will fully disable both traction control and electronic braking systems."

question: does turning off traction control also turn off automatic braking through hard turns? i'm guessing it doesn't

[xalfa]

I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased.

Someone is utterly and completely missing the point, and "I contend" that person is VWPDX.

[DaLeadBull]

According to the article posted a couple above here it's 2012's built in May and forward. No one should have the 2 step ESP yet.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post76340239

That article was from Feb, 2011. I think they meant from May 2011 onward.

[itofigari12]

...I have to acknowledge this is a hard topic..."moving down" from an 2008 E90 M3, this might be a deal breaker for me...I already have a RB R on order from Austin VW dealer and I am now thinking to safe "a bit" more and get myself into a TT RS....

[xalfa]

...I have to acknowledge this is a hard topic..."moving down" from an 2008 E90 M3, this might be a deal breaker for me...I already have a RB R on order from Austin VW dealer and I am now thinking to safe "a bit" more and get myself into a TT RS....

Save up. TT RS is the shizznipple.

[VWPDX]

Someone is utterly and completely missing the point, and "I contend" that person is VWPDX.

I contend the goal of Racing is to post the fastest time.

[xalfa]

I contend the goal of Racing is to post the fastest time.

I have never raced and don't intend to. But I do enjoy Driving. Sometimes on a track. And if I can't be fully in control of my car when it is at the limit, and software keeps me from even approaching that limit, then that is just not driving.

[BlazinVR]

I contend the goal of Racing is to post the fastest time.

skip to 5:00 in this video. even motortrend doesn't like the automatic braking.

can you imagine how much brake pad this car would go through on a track?

[GTIVRon]

TechEd needs to realize that not everyone is buying this car to only track with and post low times. He also needs to realize that some people like to have fun in their car. He also needs to realize that safety should be an individual and personal concern.

I say release the defeatable ESC program to the masses. Let Darwin do some work. Over time these inflated ego type "racecar racer" 16 year olds will wipe themselves off the maps, and the R in the US will become even more rare, and hold it's value even better.

If somebody wants to go have fun in a snow covered parking lot, they should have every right to. If they want to pretend that they can take the turn up ahead at 90 MPH so long as that stupid ESC program isn't on, then they should be allowed to try.

[VWPDX]

I have never raced and don't intend to. But I do enjoy Driving. Sometimes on a track. And if I can't be fully in control of my car when it is at the limit, and software keeps me from even approaching that limit, then that is just not driving.

I argue that the software doesn't really keep you from the realistic limit of the car. Luckily, they didn't go and put a D badge on it. Anyhow, this is a hypothetical discussion. I can see the other side's perspective of wanting unhindered access without pesky braking. Realistically, a few percent of Golf/GTI buyers are R buyers. A few percent of R buyers would actually utilize a full disable safely on a track. Thus, I can see VW's perspective as well. Either way, I own a R and I don't care. If you don't own a R, you should probably care less. If there is enough numerical demand, I am sure someone out there can figure out how to bring you the new 2012 EU programming for a price. As a side note, several weeks ago, I happened on a parking lot filled with over a foot of fresh powder. The hooligan bug did bite me. With the traction control disabled, it gave me all of the hooligan fun I could ask for and then some.

[BRSomm]

I have never raced and don't intend to. But I do enjoy Driving. Sometimes on a track. And if I can't be fully in control of my car when it is at the limit, and software keeps me from even approaching that limit, then that is just not driving.

A good argument could be made that if you learned to drive without engaging the nannies you'd be faster.

Tiff felt faster in the Seat but was actually slower.

If you're arguing that you simply want to be able to hoon around, then the nannies need to be defeatable, but arguing that you're faster without them?

[Dutchmastr9]

A good argument could be made that if you learned to drive without engaging the nannies you'd be faster.

Tiff felt faster in the Seat but was actually slower.

If you're arguing that you simply want to be able to hoon around, then the nannies need to be defeatable, but arguing that you're faster without them?

yes but the seat was only fwd, while the R is awd

[Arin@APR]

I have a North American and ROW German Golf R at APR right now and I can confirm that both cars only disable ASR. ESP will not turn off by pressing the button. This even includes holding the button for lengthy periods of time.

Unless the controllers on the ROW German spec Golf R were messed with, looks like Golf R's all over the world are like this.

[DudeLePowSki]

I have a North American and ROW German Golf R at APR right now and I can confirm that both cars only disable ASR. ESP will not turn off by pressing the button. This even includes holding the button for lengthy periods of time.

Unless the controllers on the ROW German spec Golf R were messed with, looks like Golf R's all over the world are like this.

Thank you for checking that.

[webcrawlr]

I have a North American and ROW German Golf R at APR right now and I can confirm that both cars only disable ASR. ESP will not turn off by pressing the button. This even includes holding the button for lengthy periods of time.

Unless the controllers on the ROW German spec Golf R were messed with, looks like Golf R's all over the world are like this.

Arin, it looks like this will change with ROW R's that get produced from May forward. There was a link to an article on it above.

[xalfa]

If you're arguing that you simply want to be able to hoon around, then the nannies need to be defeatable, but arguing that you're faster without them?

I'm arguing exactly the opposite. I'm not a racer and could honestly care less about seconds on a 2 minute lap. I've never paid attention to lap times when I have been on the track and mine probably SUCK. But I want to have the option to be fully in control of my car and have my skill, not software, determine how fast I can drive. I also want the option to hang the @ss out when I feel like it because that is a very slow but very fun thing to do.

If the goal of the engineers was to make even the worst drivers marginally faster around a track then they should have offered DSG only.

VW: Screw your desire for "involvement" and "enjoyment" and your irrational need for a "third pedal." We know even the best of you will be tenths faster on average around a track with the DSG, and you will be safer while doing so. So that is all you get. Sorry.

[surefooted]

I have a North American and ROW German Golf R at APR right now and I can confirm that both cars only disable ASR. ESP will not turn off by pressing the button. This even includes holding the button for lengthy periods of time.

Unless the controllers on the ROW German spec Golf R were messed with, looks like Golf R's all over the world are like this.

Arin, multiple articles are saying that VW is going to change that or did change that at some point. When was your ROW golf built?

[Arin@APR]

Arin, multiple articles are saying that VW is going to change that or did change that at some point. When was your ROW golf built?

I'll check tomorrow but this R's been in the US since before october 2010, so it's not new.

[xalfa]

Seems like the sketchy information available now says hold out for a build date >= 5/12.

[Arin@APR]

Seems like the sketchy information available now says hold out for a build date >= 5/12.

I wouldn't believe news articles unless I've tested and confirmed.