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    Thread: Electronic Stability Control - How to turn off/disable?

    1. Member
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      03-21-2012 10:32 PM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      One need not transfer "all" the weight (if you did the car would be sliding on its nose). If you cornering at or near the limits of the tires, a lift at speed is more than enough for the rears to lose grip. People spin all the time on track from such behavior. As others have mentioned, the R is a sort of inverted 911, there's a relatively big lump out on the bumper which with softish springs, motor mounts, etc should amplify the effect. At high speed, recall TE said this was a high speed trait, as presumably the R is not a positive downforce car, if the rear is sufficiently light the effect could easily be further magnified. Who among us knows the DF figures front and rear at say 110? What TE described sound quite reminiscent of the early TT spoiler debacle.

      I have no reason to doubt TE, but for those that do, just head over to WGI, go flat out of 1, as per usual stay flat through 2. You should be at least 110 as you turn in for the esses and go over the hump. Lift to taste. Its uphill, you'll have a fighting chance. Please have some form of video and logging on board so we can amuse ourselves with video and enlighten ourselves with the data traces.

      Having seen the carnage that can occur up in that part of the track, I know I ain't going to try that in an R or any other car with or with out esp. But perhaps someone here wants to sacrifice their R for science. If nothing else, you'll get a lot of youtube hits.
      You can spin any car with clumsy application of throttle while cornering at the limit - and while I can buy that the R32 is prone to this, the R motor is considerably lighter - so unless people have already been taking their R's to the track already and spinning them, what is the claim based on?

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      03-21-2012 11:11 PM #142
      Quote Originally Posted by DaLeadBull View Post
      I also don't understand your liability point of view, other manufactures offer cars with fully defeatable ESP, so why can't VW? I understand VW is a fairly conservative company, but on an R model they should offer it imo.
      That's also what I don't understand. Plenty of companies run either multiple layers of ESC, and finally an off button.

      Quote Originally Posted by DaLeadBull View Post
      Once again, TechEd your posts are most welcome and I love reading them so don't take this personal.
      Agreed. Since I spend a fair amount of time in TCL and OT, it's refreshing to see well constructed posts. Even though I don't agree with everything he says, it's still interesting to read, informative, not the usual dimwitted banter.

      Over the summer I work various events for Lotus, and spend a lot of time in booths talking about them, and other times I get to work track days for prospective owners. A system like the Evora's would be great to have in this application. In an Evora the system can be driven around completely if you're nice and smooth. Clicking the sport button raises the rev limit, sharpens the throttle response, and raises the ESC intervention threshold. To an extent, it'll allow power on oversteer, lift off oversteer, aggressive trail braking, tire howling awful understeer etc. Basically, the only thing that it safety nets is drifting, or totally fubar'ing a corner or transition.

      Finally, you can turn it off if you so desire.

      A system like that would be preferable to me, as in Sport mode, your own driving mistakes will cost you time without triggering ESC intervention, but those big whoopsie moments are harder to encounter. You can get the Evora pretty out of shape in Sport, which makes me feel like I'm not under the watchful eye of someone who hates fun, but I also know if I have a Harry Ham Hands moment my chances of wadding the car are slim.

      Plus, with an off button, you can man handle the car around if you so desire, as let's be honest, non car enthusiast passengers aren't impressed with cornering speed, rather the throw your grip away, slow and brutal driving that can be sinfully fun sometimes.

      I just want the option to do whichever I please.
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      03-23-2012 07:00 PM #143
      http://motoren.wordpress.com/2011/02...-and-scirocco/


      IDK if this has been posted, 5 pages is a lot to go through...

      but apparently we all have a secret semi disable... which last until you tap the brakes before you enter a corner. or if you are skilled enough, you can probably run a whole circuit without touching the brakes just kidding...

      can anyone confirm, or did anyone confirm this? I honestly am not too concern over this but I do wanna know that if it only cuts back in when you seem to be bent out of shape (i.e. turning and braking at the same time while the wheel has an obvious wheel speed difference) or is it like I said, the touching of the brakes before entering the corner will re-engage the system...

      I honestly really hope its the former and not the latter, because i'd imagine it be very hard to constantly try to re-disable it.

      well that and I really hope we at least really have this second stage that is supposively black magic.


      honestly I will probably never disable esp anyway, i only thought about this for a what if type thing. I don't see the disadvantage for daily driving the car with esp on anyway.

    4. Member homercles337's Avatar
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      03-23-2012 07:32 PM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      TechEd has expressed concern with pulling anything ABS and what codes you might be setting on other items on the CAN bus you cannot see or do anything about. Food for thought.
      ABS and ECS are one thing, but i really bought into what he had to say about ride height/quality. Now that i have driven the R for more than a month, the suspension is ****. Bump steer is outrageous. Dont listen to TechEd as the "end all, be all" of this car. Just my $0.02.

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      03-23-2012 07:54 PM #145
      Quote Originally Posted by Heinrich View Post
      What if it were a hidden vag-com bit - anyone call Russ Tech?
      Someone in the mk6 forums found some settings (xdl,asr, etc) but nothing that stuck as it was all speed sensitive. Can't find the thread now.
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      03-23-2012 08:11 PM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
      You can spin any car with clumsy application of throttle while cornering at the limit - and while I can buy that the R32 is prone to this, the R motor is considerably lighter - so unless people have already been taking their R's to the track already and spinning them, what is the claim based on?
      Sure. The question in this case is just how clumsy do you have to be and how light does the rear of this car get at speed. TEd, BTW, who might not have Vettel's resume, but likely its more substantial than most everyone else here, cited personal track experience in this regard. It is true,however, that this is a sample of 1.

      Regardless, far too friggin much is made of this. While I've never felt the need to track my GTI, I have AXed it once or twice and with ESP off, outside of the XSD, nothing was ever noticed, unless I screwed up and came in too hot in the first place. And that, after all, is the purpose of ESP interference. It is for those moments when talent lags bravado. Now being an old school 911 kinda guy, I personally prefer the Darwin solution and so philosophically, I'm certainly in the wish I could fully defeat it camp. But our modern, overly litigious society demands more gentile sanctions, in this case, ESP. As no performance road car available today has fully defeatable electronic aids (can anyone switch off ABS?), I've simply grown to accept this as the current state of affairs. OTOH, as someone who races a car that lacks even the most basic assists like power steering, I do find I find it more than a little amusing that so many view technology like ESP as emasculating while they fully embrace a whole raft of others which allow them to go more quickly than their core talents might actually allow in a more basic car.
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      03-23-2012 11:21 PM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      But our modern, overly litigious society demands more gentile sanctions.
      Gentile sanctions?


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      03-24-2012 01:20 AM #148
      Quote Originally Posted by Heinrich View Post
      What if it were a hidden vag-com bit - anyone call Russ Tech?
      I think you mean Ross Tech


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      03-24-2012 08:11 AM #149
      Quote Originally Posted by xalfa View Post
      Gentile sanctions?

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      03-27-2012 11:14 PM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Neither US nor the early German spec Golf R I have in house does this while holding down the ESP button.
      Das R's MFD displays this text upon pushing the ESP button. 4 door loaded US spec-took delivery January
      Last edited by veuu; 03-27-2012 at 11:19 PM.

    11. 04-04-2012 10:14 AM #151
      Hear! Hear! I haven't driven the Golf R, but I sympathize with those upset over disabling ESP.

      ESP is a fabulous assortment of technologies that can save cars, lives, and insurance. However, on the track, the electronic nanny can kill performance.

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      04-04-2012 10:22 AM #152
      Quote Originally Posted by audi0000 View Post
      Hear! Hear! I haven't driven the Golf R, but I sympathize with those upset over disabling ESP.

      ESP is a fabulous assortment of technologies that can save cars, lives, and insurance. However, on the track, the electronic nanny can kill performance.
      ...or enhance it.... which applies to cars on many many levels higher than the R.

      like... the McLaren fax machine car....
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      04-04-2012 01:26 PM #153
      disclaimer: I am defending the ESP system, but I won't be against it being disabled because I would love to do some silly things in snowy conditions. This being said... in defense of ESP I want to say and ask the following:

      it almost seem like disabling the ESP only really gives you more fun (sliding and donuts), IDK if the average driver can out drive the car without ESP.

      I will likely NEVER hit the racetrack, but hey, if I do.. I am sure the nanny will keep me away from the crash tires and keep me on the average side of the lap time instead of way below. I use ESP and traction control on GT5, it really makes driving easier on those stupid super cars that just spins and spins and spins.

      Then again game to real life, kinda different....

      well say if you THINK you are that good at driving but you have dunlops all season stock tires, what do u do when you start messing up? use magical uber track skills that you probably don't have because if you did, you'd probably be a real race car driver? We can hate all we want towards VW, but it doesn't change the fact that the Golf .:R isn't a race car, and probably was not ever intended to be one. it wasn't derived from a race car formula... its just a higher performance model of a typical family car... the EVO and STI? you can say similar things but they have real race car DNA embedded into it such as rally racing. Golf R? I don't know. I honestly don't know much about the Golf R besides that it feels like a balanced package of a car that wouldn't annoy my mom/gf if I decide to drive her around, but when they aren't around I get to drive a little faster than normal.

      realistically speaking I think the Golf R is just a great daily driver, and not so much racekar. I would just get a second car for the tracks... I'm sure a FR would be more "down to the basics" type car to hit the tracks with.

      Bare bone cars... like a Miata... would be great and loads of fun, or any of the 90's sports car.

      I suppose it's in human nature to get annoyed with silly things because the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Remember guys, if you track your car 364/365 days of the year, the R isn't for you! but if you track your car 10/365 of the year, I'm sure it can't be a real problem... unless u r t3h l33t driver.

      IDK... can someone figure out a way to import euro esp system for our cars?

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      04-04-2012 05:23 PM #154
      Google to the rescue again, a little searching and I found these quotes (translated from german) on another enthusiast board:

      "If anyone still interested, the ESP disable for the Golf 6 R can be done by the adjustment channel 9 in steering control unit (address word 44) turn to off (from 0 to 1). In this case, as it were recoded to the old power steering which the steering angle sensor had in the steering wheel. The steering angle is no longer sent to the CAN bus and the ESP control unit, this information is not longer available. Makes sense only for the track, must also be coded using a diagnostic tester back again because the adjustment even with ignition off / on will remain."

      "Adjustment channel 9 put in power steering control unit to 1, ESP is permanently off. ABS and Co is retained."


      Anyone try this yet? If not, perhaps someone with a VAG-COM could try it out and report what changing the value for adaptation channel 9 in the Steering Control module 44 does?


      B.

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      04-04-2012 05:31 PM #155
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      Google to the rescue again, a little searching and I found these quotes (translated from german) on another enthusiast board:

      "If anyone still interested, the ESP disable for the Golf 6 R can be done by the adjustment channel 9 in steering control unit (address word 44) turn to off (from 0 to 1). In this case, as it were recoded to the old power steering which the steering angle sensor had in the steering wheel. The steering angle is no longer sent to the CAN bus and the ESP control unit, this information is not longer available. Makes sense only for the track, must also be coded using a diagnostic tester back again because the adjustment even with ignition off / on will remain."

      "Adjustment channel 9 put in power steering control unit to 1, ESP is permanently off. ABS and Co is retained."


      Anyone try this yet? If not, perhaps someone with a VAG-COM could try it out and report what changing the value for adaptation channel 9 in the Steering Control module 44 does?


      B.
      Wow that sounds promising unless whoever said that was full of BS.

      But wouldn't changing that value with VAG-COM permanently disable ESP, as in not giving us the option to turn in back on by pressing the ESP button?

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      04-04-2012 05:38 PM #156
      Well two separate people posted it, so take it for what its worth.

      And yep, according the first guy I found posting it, it fully disables it until you go back in with VAG-COm and change it back.

      If it does work, I wonder if this is the area targeted by German tuners like Rothe and others who are installing a full-disable switch. e.g. are they merely installing a switch that turns off the steering sensor thus disabling ESP. who knows....but the VAG-COm trick is probably worth a try for those who care I suppose.

      B.
      Last edited by bsmith75; 04-04-2012 at 07:39 PM.

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      04-04-2012 06:00 PM #157

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      04-04-2012 06:15 PM #158
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      Well two separate people posted it, so take it for what its worth.

      And yep, according the first guy I found posting it, it fully disables it until you go back in with VAG-COm and change it back.

      If it does work, I wonder if this is the area targeted by German tuners like Rothe and others who are using to installing a full-disable switch. e.g. are they merely installing a switch that turns off the steering sensor thus disabling ESP. who knows....but the VAG-COm trick is probably worth a try for those who care I suppose.

      B.
      I have a fairly tight roundabout near my house that ESP kicks in on pretty fast. If I get time I'll try that code out and report back.

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      04-04-2012 06:21 PM #159
      I won't have my R until end of June, but if anybody else in DFW wants to try this, I have VAGCOM and would be glad to help. No snow here in Texas, and I don't know of any dirt roads or lots nearby so it might be a 2 day deal. Change it and go test it, come back to turn it back on if you want.
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      04-04-2012 06:22 PM #160
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      I have a fairly tight roundabout near my house that ESP kicks in on pretty fast. If I get time I'll try that code out and report back.
      Please don't come back posting pictures of a totaled R.
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      04-04-2012 06:36 PM #161
      Quote Originally Posted by GTIVRon View Post
      Please don't come back posting pictures of a totaled R.


      ---Insert standard liability disclaimer---




      B.

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      04-04-2012 07:38 PM #162
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      Google to the rescue again, a little searching and I found these quotes (translated from german) on another enthusiast board:

      "If anyone still interested, the ESP disable for the Golf 6 R can be done by the adjustment channel 9 in steering control unit (address word 44) turn to off (from 0 to 1). In this case, as it were recoded to the old power steering which the steering angle sensor had in the steering wheel. The steering angle is no longer sent to the CAN bus and the ESP control unit, this information is not longer available. Makes sense only for the track, must also be coded using a diagnostic tester back again because the adjustment even with ignition off / on will remain."

      "Adjustment channel 9 put in power steering control unit to 1, ESP is permanently off. ABS and Co is retained."


      Anyone try this yet? If not, perhaps someone with a VAG-COM could try it out and report what changing the value for adaptation channel 9 in the Steering Control module 44 does?


      B.
      I'll take a look report back with what I see.

      Edit: This is a dead end. There's nothing in those controllers worth messing with.
      Last edited by GRB; 04-04-2012 at 08:10 PM.

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      04-04-2012 08:16 PM #163
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
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      04-04-2012 08:30 PM #164
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      That's promising but can it be toggled?

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      04-04-2012 08:33 PM #165
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
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      04-04-2012 10:18 PM #166
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      That sounds promising!!! Keep us up to date.

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      04-04-2012 10:50 PM #167
      I tried mine canadian spec and it shuts off after a few seconds of holding the ASR button

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      04-04-2012 10:54 PM #168
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      GoAPR!

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      04-04-2012 10:56 PM #169
      Best news I have heard today!
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      04-04-2012 11:02 PM #170
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      please try to build this back into the traction control button!

      this will be awesome if this works and can be updated by doing a software upgrade!!

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      04-04-2012 11:16 PM #171
      Quote Originally Posted by GTIVRon View Post
      Please don't come back posting pictures of a totaled R.
      You spend too much time reading the interweb. ESP kicks in way before anything starts to slide or get hairy. Not to mention the roundabout is about 35mph max. I used to slide the STI around it everyday without ESP and never even knicked a rim. Knowing you car and your limits goes a long way.

      Forgot the laptop at work. Hopefully tomorrow.
      Last edited by webcrawlr; 04-04-2012 at 11:19 PM.

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      04-04-2012 11:26 PM #172
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      You spend too much time reading the interweb. ESP kicks in way before anything starts to slide or get hairy. Not to mention the roundabout is about 35mph max. I used to slide the STI around it everyday without ESP and never even knicked a rim. Knowing you car and your limits goes a long way.

      Forgot the laptop at work. Hopefully tomorrow.
      This post is kinda confusing, are you saying that you disabled ESP using VAGCOM?

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      04-05-2012 12:22 AM #173
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      You guys should change your slogan to "Un-Nerf Your Car"

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      04-05-2012 06:57 AM #174
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      I hope you didn't bring this up to tease us! Keep up the good work, apr.

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      04-05-2012 10:56 AM #175
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      Can I just buy a Canadian spec ECU and run that in my car?
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