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    Thread: Electronic Stability Control - How to turn off/disable?

    1. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 10:26 AM #176
      Quote Originally Posted by UncannySkill View Post
      That's promising but can it be toggled?
      That's the plan!
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    2. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 10:32 AM #177
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      That's the plan!
      Are you trying to link it back to the button?
      Scotch. It's time.

      Quote Originally Posted by Buford T. Injustice View Post
      Wow such Canagay. Much hairy. So cuddles.

    3. Junior Member super8neon's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 10:37 AM #178
      Is there a Dynamic/ Yaw Sensor on VW's????

      If so... look for a wiring diagram, and cut power to it. (Via a Spliced Switch)

    4. Member DaLeadBull's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 10:39 AM #179
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      That's the plan!
      That would be awesome, even better if you could mimic how the ROW Golf R ESP buttons work.

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      04-05-2012 11:09 AM #180
      Out of curiosity, any know if a button could be wired to the ABS module in a similar fashion to the Jetta GLI ESP defeat solution published by AWE tuning?

      http://www.awe-tuning.com/products/v...ctivation.html

      B.

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      04-05-2012 11:09 AM #181
      Please make it happen arin were counting on you guys.

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      04-05-2012 11:29 AM #182
      Quote Originally Posted by UncannySkill View Post
      I'll take a look report back with what I see.

      Edit: This is a dead end. There's nothing in those controllers worth messing with.
      I am a bit confused by your response. The Ross-Tech website describes "44-steering assist " adaptation channel - 09 as the Steering Angle Sensor activation/deactivation. Which is exactly what is described by the translated German posts I put up yesterday.


      From: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...ist#Adaptation

      Channel 009: Steering Angle Sensor

      The Adaptation Channel determined the Functionality of the internal Steering Angle Sensor. Depending on the Combination of Steering Aid and Brake Electronics the internal Steering Angle Sensor needs to be deactivated.

      Possible Settings:

      * Internal Steering Angle Sensor active
      * Internal Steering Angle Sensor inactive
      * Internal Steering Angle Sensor inactive (only ASR MK70)

      Were you able to change the value and see if it deactivated the sensor (and ESP)?

      B.

    8. Member Tailwagger's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 04:28 PM #183
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Well.... engineering just turned it off via calibration changes.
      Just so I understand what I might be waiting in line for, by "calibration changes" can I take it to mean that you are altering the interpretation of the incoming voltage from the wheel, steering, yaw, what-have-you sensor to change the intervention threshold to a point where you'd have to be spinning like a top before it would activate? More to thhe point, is this a pure software update or a hardware one that alters the output voltage from a sensor(s) to fool the existing software? Or something else?
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      04-05-2012 04:35 PM #184
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      More to thhe point, is this a pure software update or a hardware one that alters the output voltage from a sensor(s) to fool the existing software? Or something else?
      Tailwagger, I imagine APR is going to play it close to the vest with this sort of information. Naturally, I'm also curious about the details - but if I were APR, I'd keep tight reins of this finding.

      Hopefully, whatever adaptations they've found can be woven into the ECS software and activated with existing switchgear.

    10. Member Tailwagger's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 05:05 PM #185
      Quote Originally Posted by keihin View Post
      Tailwagger, I imagine APR is going to play it close to the vest with this sort of information. Naturally, I'm also curious about the details - but if I were APR, I'd keep tight reins of this finding.

      Hopefully, whatever adaptations they've found can be woven into the ECS software and activated with existing switchgear.
      While I might imagine the same thing, as the president of my old start up used to say when he was going out to try to close a deal for more money than anyone would have ever been willing to pay, "It never hurts to ask."
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    11. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 06:13 PM #186
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      Just so I understand what I might be waiting in line for, by "calibration changes" can I take it to mean that you are altering the interpretation of the incoming voltage from the wheel, steering, yaw, what-have-you sensor to change the intervention threshold to a point where you'd have to be spinning like a top before it would activate? More to thhe point, is this a pure software update or a hardware one that alters the output voltage from a sensor(s) to fool the existing software? Or something else?
      Nothing like that. No tricking/fooling/messing around. And no hardware.

      More details as they become available.
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      04-05-2012 06:47 PM #187
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      I am a bit confused by your response. The Ross-Tech website describes "44-steering assist " adaptation channel - 09 as the Steering Angle Sensor activation/deactivation. Which is exactly what is described by the translated German posts I put up yesterday.


      From: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...ist#Adaptation




      Were you able to change the value and see if it deactivated the sensor (and ESP)?

      B.
      Yes, I was able to change the value but quickly changed it back to default since all you end up with is a nightmare of DTC codes. Everything from steering angle sensor, to ABS, Haldex, tire pressure monitors... It's not worth messing around with.

    13. Member Lamfalus's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 07:34 PM #188
      Quote Originally Posted by UncannySkill View Post
      Yes, I was able to change the value but quickly changed it back to default since all you end up with is a nightmare of DTC codes. Everything from steering angle sensor, to ABS, Haldex, tire pressure monitors... It's not worth messing around with.
      But... if you ignored the codes was the system disabled? Key being would the other systems still work but the ESC be disabled.
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      04-05-2012 08:24 PM #189
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Nothing like that. No tricking/fooling/messing around. And no hardware.

      More details as they become available.
      Sound cool
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      04-05-2012 08:31 PM #190
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Nothing like that. No tricking/fooling/messing around. And no hardware.

      More details as they become available.
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    16. Member Lamfalus's Avatar
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      04-06-2012 04:03 AM #191
      I have a VAG-COM. Anyone have an R I can experiment with?
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    17. Member evilgti2000's Avatar
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      04-06-2012 01:25 PM #192

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      04-07-2012 03:40 AM #193
      I posted a link in another of these type of threads a while ago and couldn't be stuffed trying to find it. Basically it was a link to an article in an Australian magazine that had a test on APR's Australian Golf R. They had the ability to fully disable ESP and on a racetrack with a professional driver it was 0.1s quicker with ESP turned off. Speaking to Guy Harding who runs APR in Australia he said he is quicker on the track with partial ESP disable (ie will still cut in at some point) than with it fully disabled. Whilst Guy wouldn't call himself a professional driver his skill level is probably better than average.

      It has been confirmed by a number of people in Aus that have cars built post May 2011 that they have the 2 stage disable. I don't think any of them have been on the track to test whether they are faster with it off than with it on. I have also been told by the Service Manager at my local dealership that the 2 stage disable is not an upgrade that can be done on older vehicles which makes me think that they have changed hardware to make it happen from the factory. Obviously there is a way to do it with software but that will have to wait for APR or others to release.
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      04-07-2012 08:24 AM #194
      Forget the track, I want to be able to get sideways in the snow!

    20. Member autofi's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 08:26 AM #195
      Quote Originally Posted by smd3 View Post
      Forget the track, I want to be able to get sideways in the snow!
      I'll second that!

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      04-10-2012 10:47 PM #196
      Quote Originally Posted by UncannySkill View Post
      Yes, I was able to change the value but quickly changed it back to default since all you end up with is a nightmare of DTC codes. Everything from steering angle sensor, to ABS, Haldex, tire pressure monitors... It's not worth messing around with.

      Hmm interestingly it appears very worthwhile to mess around with...TyrolMike has posted confirmation in his thread that changing that steering sensor code does indeed disable ESP.

      booom......

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...husiasts/page5

      Quote Originally Posted by TyrolMike
      I have verified that the below VAGCOM coding procedure(posted in another thread), works to disable the 2nd stage of the traction control:

      "If anyone still interested, the ESP disable for the Golf 6 R can be done by the adjustment channel 9 in steering control unit (address word 44) turn to off (from 0 to 1). In this case, as it were recoded to the old power steering which the steering angle sensor had in the steering wheel. The steering angle is no longer sent to the CAN bus and the ESP control unit, this information is not longer available. Makes sense only for the track, must also be coded using a diagnostic tester back again because the adjustment even with ignition off / on will remain."

      "Adjustment channel 9 put in power steering control unit to 1, ESP is permanently off. ABS and Co is retained."

      So anybody with a VAG-COM feel like trying out and reporting what happens changing the value for:

      - 44 "Steering Assist":......Adaptation channel 09 - Steering Angle Sensor

      The car is completely transformed when this is completed. Please do this at your own risk, as the car becomes much more tail happy and WILL get sideways. You will have three lights appear solidly on the cluster when you enable the coding; bulb out, traction control, and TPMS. The TPMS light can be disabled with a separate coding. I am working on the bulb out. After being quite disappointed with the the traction control holding me back, I now feel like this:

      So there is a simple workable solution for those want it.

      And to think all it took to find was an hour of using google.

      B.

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      04-11-2012 07:26 AM #197
      Don't get much snow down here, but I do plan on autocrossing this car and maybe going to a Gymkahana from time to time. There are also three really good race tracks within a reasonable distance of me, Motorsport Ranch, Texas World Speedway, and The Driveway. Also the new F1 track isn't too far once it's built. Either way, disabling the stability control is a good thing because it forces you to learn how to drive the car, which is the real reason to do such events, or go to the track. If the electronic nanny saves your butt every time you make a mistake, you can't learn, or you learn to depend on it.

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      04-11-2012 07:26 AM #198
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      Hmm interestingly it appears very worthwhile to mess around with...TyrolMike has posted confirmation in his thread that changing that steering sensor code does indeed disable ESP.

      booom......

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...husiasts/page5




      So there is a simple workable solution for those want it.

      And to think all it took to find was an hour of using google.

      B.
      Yes it works, but I don't like bush league hacks. You still can't toggle it on and off. If you're OK with that, plus a dashboard that looks like a Christmas tree and DTCs stored all over your ECU, then go right ahead. I'll wait for a more professional solution.

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      04-11-2012 07:50 AM #199
      Quote Originally Posted by ToeBall View Post
      Don't get much snow down here, but I do plan on autocrossing this car and maybe going to a Gymkahana from time to time. There are also three really good race tracks within a reasonable distance of me, Motorsport Ranch, Texas World Speedway, and The Driveway. Also the new F1 track isn't too far once it's built. Either way, disabling the stability control is a good thing because it forces you to learn how to drive the car, which is the real reason to do such events, or go to the track. If the electronic nanny saves your butt every time you make a mistake, you can't learn, or you learn to depend on it.
      Or you learn to drive in such a fashion that the nannies don't engage. Very irritating to be reined in constantly.

    25. 04-11-2012 03:47 PM #200
      non-defeat ESP took the Mk6 Golf off my list, good to see progress is being made. Maybe it'll be a contender again.

      TedEd : If ESP were so great on track, why did they give special ESP off versions to early media impressions, and why are media impressions so overwhelmingly negative now that they're testing versions with non-defeat ESP? For example, no mention of non-defeat ESP in the Golf R Lightning Lap blurb, plenty of loud whining about it for the Jetta GLI (which, thanks to esp got it's ass handed to it by the Civic Si).

      No ESP: you can correct mistakes, suffer a bubble but keep going.
      With ESP: if you screw up, oh well, here come the brakes and the big slowdown show. Try again next lap, do not pass go, do not collect $200

      I don't particularly dislike ESP, there are very few people anymore who are hardcore anti ESP, but you've got some sort of new stability control stockholme syndrome, railing against those folk who enjoy having the option of having it off.

      If the Golf R is really so dangerous that it shouldn't be driven with the ESP off, then the solution isn't to give it non defeat ESP and sell it as a sports car, it's to re-engineer it until it works properly.

      My hunch is the golf is just fine and the stability control can please be put onto a button, and if somebody decides to go 130 with the stability control and the tail goes all wig-a-wag on them with their hamfistiness, then they pushed the button to kill the esp and can please sod off.

      Unless you think the Golf R belongs in the illustrious company of other vehicles that aren't safe to drive without ESP, like the Smart ForTwo or the Can-Am Spyder.

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      04-11-2012 04:07 PM #201
      Man, I envy the people buying a $38k car as a dedicated track car.
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      04-11-2012 04:09 PM #202
      Quote Originally Posted by DannyZRC View Post
      non-defeat ESP took the Mk6 Golf off my list, good to see progress is being made. Maybe it'll be a contender again.

      TedEd : If ESP were so great on track, why did they give special ESP off versions to early media impressions, and why are media impressions so overwhelmingly negative now that they're testing versions with non-defeat ESP? For example, no mention of non-defeat ESP in the Golf R Lightning Lap blurb, plenty of loud whining about it for the Jetta GLI (which, thanks to esp got it's ass handed to it by the Civic Si).

      No ESP: you can correct mistakes, suffer a bubble but keep going.
      With ESP: if you screw up, oh well, here come the brakes and the big slowdown show. Try again next lap, do not pass go, do not collect $200

      I don't particularly dislike ESP, there are very few people anymore who are hardcore anti ESP, but you've got some sort of new stability control stockholme syndrome, railing against those folk who enjoy having the option of having it off.

      If the Golf R is really so dangerous that it shouldn't be driven with the ESP off, then the solution isn't to give it non defeat ESP and sell it as a sports car, it's to re-engineer it until it works properly.

      My hunch is the golf is just fine and the stability control can please be put onto a button, and if somebody decides to go 130 with the stability control and the tail goes all wig-a-wag on them with their hamfistiness, then they pushed the button to kill the esp and can please sod off.

      Unless you think the Golf R belongs in the illustrious company of other vehicles that aren't safe to drive without ESP, like the Smart ForTwo or the Can-Am Spyder.
      TechEd is not a fan of the automotive media.

    28. 04-11-2012 04:10 PM #203
      Neither am I, not by a long shot, but I trust them enough that they won't screw up simple things like "this sucks and it's pissing me off"

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      04-13-2012 07:13 PM #204
      Quote Originally Posted by smd3 View Post
      Forget the track, I want to be able to get sideways in the snow!
      It is possible to four wheel drift without the ESP kicking in. I've done it on mud and I assume you'd be able to do the same on snow. You just have to be smooth. The fact that changing the codes for the steering will disable the ESP indicates that steering input is one of the factors that ESP uses. If you are hard on the wheel it is more likely for the ESP to cut in. Be gentle and you'll find you can get a nice drift going.
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    30. Member smd3's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 07:32 PM #205
      Quote Originally Posted by zbeasty View Post
      It is possible to four wheel drift without the ESP kicking in. I've done it on mud and I assume you'd be able to do the same on snow. You just have to be smooth. The fact that changing the codes for the steering will disable the ESP indicates that steering input is one of the factors that ESP uses. If you are hard on the wheel it is more likely for the ESP to cut in. Be gentle and you'll find you can get a nice drift going.
      Great, but I still want to be able to mess around. Look, convince yourself all you want that not being able to disable the ESP is no big deal. Fact of the matter is it sucks!

      I will probably never turn it off any other time.

    31. 04-15-2012 08:01 PM #206
      After a few days of fully beating on the Golf R in conditions that rival some of the best track situations ESC didn't spoil the fun even once! I never felt the car lose power and even at the point of the tires beginning to tell me they were at their limits the car kept going! I am hooked this a very capable and fun car.

      Working on my photos but in this one you can see the car in a pretty tight corner where staying between the lines is critical.

      http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Or...o=1343&pc=1567
      Last edited by CnSR32; 04-15-2012 at 08:51 PM.

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      04-15-2012 11:57 PM #207
      Quote Originally Posted by CnSR32 View Post
      After a few days of fully beating on the Golf R in conditions that rival some of the best track situations ESC didn't spoil the fun even once! I never felt the car lose power and even at the point of the tires beginning to tell me they were at their limits the car kept going! I am hooked this a very capable and fun car.

      Working on my photos but in this one you can see the car in a pretty tight corner where staying between the lines is critical.

      http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Or...o=1343&pc=1567
      I also spent a day at the Dragon this past weekend and only once did I have the ESP kick in... and I was kinda glad it did when it did....

      However... I still want to be able to have fun in the snow without any nannies bothering me
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    33. Member Siliconrane's Avatar
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      04-22-2012 08:01 AM #208
      Coding Differences between US and our Canadian Counterparts. I got to plug into an EH car today and this is the difference in coding.


      Canadian:

      Sunday,22,April,2012,06:55:22:43878
      VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
      Address 03: ABS Brakes
      Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Component and/or Version: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0121
      Software Coding: 144B800C49248000281301EC921A0141310000
      Work Shop Code: WSC 01357
      VCID: 7BDB2D57FAFE411

      Advanced Identification
      Identification: TT1-012
      Revision: 00H31001
      Date: 17.12.11
      Manufacturer number: 0303
      Test stand number: 0FC9
      Flash Status
      Programming Attempts(application): 0
      Successful Attempts(application): 0
      Programming Status: 00000000
      Flash Date: 2000.14.00
      Flash Tool Code: 00000 000 00000
      Misc.
      Hardware number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Workshop System Name: J104
      VCDS Info:
      Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb


      United States:


      Sunday,22,April,2012,06:57:02:43878
      VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
      Address 03: ABS Brakes
      Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Component and/or Version: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0121
      Software Coding: 144B800C492A0000280E01E7921B0041B70000
      Work Shop Code: WSC 01357
      VCID: 7BDB2D57FAFE411

      Advanced Identification
      Identification: TT1-012
      Revision: 00H31001
      Date: 07.11.11
      Manufacturer number: 0304
      Test stand number: 0475
      Flash Status
      Programming Attempts(application): 0
      Successful Attempts(application): 0
      Programming Status: 00000000
      Flash Date: 2000.14.00
      Flash Tool Code: 00000 000 00000
      Misc.
      Hardware number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Workshop System Name: J104
      VCDS Info:
      Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb


      Someone do some testing. I am driving home from wookies and unable to do stuff.
      2012 Golf R - Black WETDUB
      APR Stage 2++ (Build Thread)

    34. Member droopy1592's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 13th, 2002
      Location
      Atlanta/Raleigh
      Posts
      2,537
      Vehicles
      2012 RB Golf R
      04-22-2012 08:15 AM #209
      Quote Originally Posted by Siliconrane View Post
      Coding Differences between US and our Canadian Counterparts. I got to plug into an EH car today and this is the difference in coding.


      Canadian:

      Sunday,22,April,2012,06:55:22:43878
      VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
      Address 03: ABS Brakes
      Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Component and/or Version: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0121
      Software Coding: 144B800C49248000281301EC921A0141310000
      Work Shop Code: WSC 01357
      VCID: 7BDB2D57FAFE411

      Advanced Identification
      Identification: TT1-012
      Revision: 00H31001
      Date: 17.12.11
      Manufacturer number: 0303
      Test stand number: 0FC9
      Flash Status
      Programming Attempts(application): 0
      Successful Attempts(application): 0
      Programming Status: 00000000
      Flash Date: 2000.14.00
      Flash Tool Code: 00000 000 00000
      Misc.
      Hardware number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Workshop System Name: J104
      VCDS Info:
      Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb


      United States:


      Sunday,22,April,2012,06:57:02:43878
      VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
      Address 03: ABS Brakes
      Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Component and/or Version: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0121
      Software Coding: 144B800C492A0000280E01E7921B0041B70000
      Work Shop Code: WSC 01357
      VCID: 7BDB2D57FAFE411

      Advanced Identification
      Identification: TT1-012
      Revision: 00H31001
      Date: 07.11.11
      Manufacturer number: 0304
      Test stand number: 0475
      Flash Status
      Programming Attempts(application): 0
      Successful Attempts(application): 0
      Programming Status: 00000000
      Flash Date: 2000.14.00
      Flash Tool Code: 00000 000 00000
      Misc.
      Hardware number: 1K0 907 379 BJ
      Workshop System Name: J104
      VCDS Info:
      Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb


      Someone do some testing. I am driving home from wookies and unable to do stuff.

      Same Abs module just different software coding/programming?

      And the manufacturer numbers are different 0303 vs 0304
      Last edited by droopy1592; 04-22-2012 at 09:29 AM.
      In many ways then this car is like herpes. Great fun catching it but not so much fun living with it every day. - Jeremy Clarkson

    35. Member droopy1592's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 13th, 2002
      Location
      Atlanta/Raleigh
      Posts
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      Vehicles
      2012 RB Golf R
      04-22-2012 09:10 AM #210
      Hmm, my current coding is

      144B800C492200FD281101E992220041B70000

      and I tried

      144B800C49248000281301EC921A0141310000

      in both Lcoding helper and in the new coding field and both times got a error 31 coding out of range.
      Last edited by droopy1592; 04-22-2012 at 09:23 AM.
      In many ways then this car is like herpes. Great fun catching it but not so much fun living with it every day. - Jeremy Clarkson

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