Electric Golf coming to US in 2013

[Beetle Hunter]

Source: Left Lane News

Portion from stub there:

The battery electric Golf will go on sale in America in late 2013 as a 2013 model, Volkswagen of America president Jonathan Browning told Automotive News. European sales are expected to follow shortly thereafter.

While Browning didn’t divulge any powertrain details, it’s expected that the Golf EV will use a setup similar to that of the electric Golf Blue-E-Motion concept that debuted in 2010. The Blue-E-Motion featured an 85kW electric motor that made 199 lb-ft of torque, with power sourced from a 26 kWh A lithium-ion battery. Volkswagen claimed that the concept’s total range was 93 miles.

I'm kinda happy that I didn't have the money to buy into something big just now. I can wait around a bit and see how this turns out. Should be fun imagining a GT-E.

[IridiumB6]

Am I the only one who really couldn't give a crap about electric cars? I mean sure the economy is there, but give me a TDI and I'll be good to go..

[romanl]

electric car would only work for me as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle and only if i continue living in Los Angeles *(or any major city) where my daily commute is under 100 miles.

[nm+]

electric car would only work for me as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle and only if i continue living in Los Angeles *(or any major city) where my daily commute is under 100 miles.

The average daily commute is well under 60 mi including errands.

A 100mi electric would be perfect for me (though I'd keep the gas guzzler) if only i could get a plug installed in my parking garage and had money.

[romanl]

^^ most days it would just be enough for my daily commute 60 miles RT
but otherwise i drive too much to be limited to 100mile range so my TDI is not going away any time soon

[TM87]

Those are the cars of the future. Not for me yet, but who knows.. Let them keep development and improvements year after year.

[surefooted]

Those are the cars of the future. Not for me yet, but who knows.. Let them keep development and improvements year after year.

I still don't see it just yet. To be a truly viable car for the masses, it'd have to work as a primary vehicle. The average person can't afford to have a second car to commute.

Range and charge time are things I see as obstacles that won't be resolved soon. Electric cars need to be as simple for the average person as a gasser.

[Kzoo]

I'll agree that electric cars are the future. Just not the near future. It's gonna take some years and some serious R&D to make these a viable option for the masses to use as a primary car.

[J-Tim]

They need to figure out how to generate electricity without destroying the environment, before adding more stuff to the grid.

[pknopp]

They are likely going to be a larger part of the future but right now they are just a novelty for the vast majority of commuters.

[Deserion]

So will the "Check Engine" light be replaced by a "Check Motor" light?

[Shmi]

I would seriously consider one as a commuter (I drive like 30 miles a day to-from work on average) if manufacturers would offer longer standard warranties on them. But an electric VW under 3 year/36k miles or 4/50k? No thanks. And I'm generally a fan of VWs, but I remain unconvinced of reliability of a new make and model VW with a new powertrain.

After seeing some of the issues out there I think longer coverage could go a long way in getting people to adopt them. Just my 2 sense.

[2.0T_Convert]

I would seriously consider one as a commuter (I drive like 30 miles a day to-from work on average) if manufacturers would offer longer standard warranties on them. But an electric VW under 3 year/36k miles or 4/50k? No thanks. And I'm generally a fan of VWs, but I remain unconvinced of reliability of a new make and model VW with a new powertrain.

After seeing some of the issues out there I think longer coverage could go a long way in getting people to adopt them. Just my 2 sense.

Volt = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*
Leaf = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*
Prius Plug-in = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*


* In states that adopt the California Zero-Emission Vehicle regulations the warranty on hybrids it longer... Honda states 15 years / 150,000 miles so that may/may not apply to an EV.

[The Holy Molar]

Am I the only one who really couldn't give a crap about electric cars? I mean sure the economy is there, but give me a TDI and I'll be good to go..

This.

[Turbio!]

I still don't see it just yet. To be a truly viable car for the masses, it'd have to work as a primary vehicle. The average person can't afford to have a second car to commute.

Range and charge time are things I see as obstacles that won't be resolved soon. Electric cars need to be as simple for the average person as a gasser.

PHEVs are likely to be the most palatable solution for "the masses" for the immediate future, just because I think people are more likely to pay $25-30k for a car that really will suffice for all the notional road trips and emergency 100-mile drives they think they're likely to do. But I disagree that an EV with 100 miles of range wouldn't suffice for the majority of drivers right now. It'd just require that those people realistically assess their vehicular needs.

Everybody thinks they drive more miles than they do; a 100mi range is entirely adequate for nearly everybody who lives in any American urban or suburban area. The average commute is only 40 miles round trip. Should you need more than that, I know of at least a dozen EV charging stations in Denver. As a little experiment, I've been logging my trip distances for the past couple months; most are well under 10 miles, only 20 have been over 40, and 10 have been over 100. Those 100-milers were planned well in advance and I could have easily rented a Zipcar for that trip - or taken my inexpensive second car. So no, I don't buy it. People buy far more car than they realistically need. I take more road trips than the vast majority of people, and an EV could easily be my primary vehicle.

Charge time is similarly overblown; plug it in when you get home, and it's charged (from zero) in about seven hours. Most people are home for at least seven hours of the day.

[Shmi]

Volt = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*
Leaf = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*
Prius Plug-in = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*


* In states that adopt the California Zero-Emission Vehicle regulations the warranty on hybrids it longer... Honda states 15 years / 150,000 miles so that may/may not apply to an EV.

Didn't know that. Thanks for the info. I was more talking about VW, curious to see if they'd do the same.

[Boogety Boogety]

Volt = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*
Leaf = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*
Prius Plug-in = 8 year /100,000 mile battery warranty*


* In states that adopt the California Zero-Emission Vehicle regulations the warranty on hybrids it longer... Honda states 15 years / 150,000 miles so that may/may not apply to an EV.

Minor correction: Honda warranties for 10 years/150,000 miles. Still...

Electric vehicles will be a very niche vehicle for the foreseeable future. Even if fuel goes to ridiculous prices, and people decide tomorrow to switch to electric power, there is no (1) vehicle production capability, (2) battery production capability, (3) ability to accept a huge amount of extra load on the grid, or (3) demand for a low-range vehicle as a main or even secondary vehicle. Commuting daily is one thing: Going to visit Grandma with the kiddos on the weekends two hours away is another.

Still, even though they're predominantly not for me (or, apparently, many here), there is a small sliver of a market that manufacturers will be pursuing. It's hard to understand the hate shown here for what is effectively a very specialized tool in the transportation universe...

[pknopp]

Another problem right now is the amount of people without a good way to recharge their vehicles.

1. Live in apts.
2. Don't have a garage.
3. Have a garage but it's already full.

That stuff will get worked out over time.

[2.0T_Convert]

Minor correction: Honda warranties for 10 years/150,000 miles. Still...

Year timeframe didn't seem right when I posted it but Honda website states the 15 years for Civic Hybrid -

Battery-pack limited warranty may vary.
15-year/150,000-mile emissions warranty when the vehicle is registered and normally operated in California and certain states that have adopted California Zero-Emission Vehicle regulations.

Honda.com

When I had my hybrid the warranty was 10 years /150,000 miles so Honda may have decided to extend that for the new Civic. Or could just be a typo....

[surefooted]

PHEVs are likely to be the most palatable solution for "the masses" for the immediate future, just because I think people are more likely to pay $25-30k for a car that really will suffice for all the notional road trips and emergency 100-mile drives they think they're likely to do. But I disagree that an EV with 100 miles of range wouldn't suffice for the majority of drivers right now. It'd just require that those people realistically assess their vehicular needs.

Everybody thinks they drive more miles than they do; a 100mi range is entirely adequate for nearly everybody who lives in any American urban or suburban area. The average commute is only 40 miles round trip. Should you need more than that, I know of at least a dozen EV charging stations in Denver. As a little experiment, I've been logging my trip distances for the past couple months; most are well under 10 miles, only 20 have been over 40, and 10 have been over 100. Those 100-milers were planned well in advance and I could have easily rented a Zipcar for that trip - or taken my inexpensive second car. So no, I don't buy it. People buy far more car than they realistically need. I take more road trips than the vast majority of people, and an EV could easily be my primary vehicle.

Charge time is similarly overblown; plug it in when you get home, and it's charged (from zero) in about seven hours. Most people are home for at least seven hours of the day.

Everyone is not going to want to have to get a second car to go out of town. People like the freedom that comes with being able to visit grandma, even if they never do. Now, if they were forced to only have one car, they are going to choose the one that they think will meet their current needs and any perceived needs.

As to charging time, I was talking in reference to road trips. Obviously if you are just commuting, you can plug it in.

[2.0T_Convert]

Everyone is not going to want to have to get a second car to go out of town. People like the freedom that comes with being able to visit grandma, even if they never do. Now, if they were forced to only have one car, they are going to choose the one that they think will meet their current needs and any perceived needs.

As to charging time, I was talking in reference to road trips. Obviously if you are just commuting, you can plug it in.

Many of the folks who can easily afford an EV already have a 2nd or 3rd or even 5 cars like my father. /firstworldproblems - having enough garage space.

[nemo1ner]

A friend of mine who I visit quite often, lives 60 miles away. That means tthat I would have to charge my vehicle while at his place. His garage/barn costs roughly $200 in electric just to run the lights (not counting power tools, air compressors, plasma cutters, etc). I would feel obligated to give him money for charging my vehicle at his house. I am sure he would not have a problem with this, but what if I was at a party where I didn't know the host or not very good friends with them? Wouldn't it be awkward to ask if I can run up their utility bill?

Electric cars are great and I see how they can be great commuter cars for the week, but it seems to me that it could not replace the gas or diesel vehicles. Until you start finding charging stations where you can leave your vehicle for a few hours all over the country, you will have to get used to begging for outlets.

[surefooted]

Many of the folks who can easily afford an EV already have a 2nd or 3rd or even 5 cars like my father. /firstworldproblems - having enough garage space.

I know that. We are talking about mass acceptance. The kind that will make people buy a full EV over an Accord/Camry.

[Air and water do mix]

A friend of mine who I visit quite often, lives 60 miles away. That means tthat I would have to charge my vehicle while at his place...

Then don't buy one. Nobody is suggesting that they're currently (!) for everyone, but they do work for a huge portion of the population. Far more folks could use them than the companies can build. It's not a problem at all.

As they get cheaper, they'll get more desirable. I doubt my next car will be electric, but I'd be willing to bet that the one after that will be.

[2.0T_Convert]

I know that. We are talking about mass acceptance. The kind that will make people buy a full EV over an Accord/Camry.

There isn't enough capability in the entire world to produce enough EV cars to cause an overnight mass acceptance. Automakers could easily meet the needs of thousands of customers each month still because there are literally that many people who could fit an EV into daily life.

[boner]

I still don't see it just yet. To be a truly viable car for the masses, it'd have to work as a primary vehicle. The average person can't afford to have a second car to commute.

agreed. similar to my disbelief that manufactures think things like smart cars and IQs will work in NA. great cars, great ideas but they are just too damned expensive to be used only for one function and thus be a 2nd car. 2nd cars whose sole purpose is efficient commuting should cost (well?) under $10k new IMHO for them to be viable for the masses. i think a Leaf is near $40k???

i have no idea what a Nano gets for fuel economy but THAT is something in the right price range for a second commuter mobile. yeah, i know THAT wouldn't sell here but basically, gimme something that is 2 to 4 times the cost of a bus pass (in ottawa, that's ~$1200/year). let's say a $5000 car that gets 50+mpg or is electric. that'd get me off the bus. mainly because i hate the stinkin bus!

Range and charge time are things I see as obstacles that won't be resolved soon. Electric cars need to be as simple for the average person as a gasser.

meh, they'll get there soon enough. think of how fast things moved in the tech industry in the late 90s and what computing power existed before and after that period. i think (hope) this will be similar in that some smart dude is gonna crack one key breakthrough and open it all up.

Actually, this is where i hold great hope you you americans. As much as I like to critisize you (as a whole) for digging yourselves into the current mess you guys are in (overall, and it's not like we're THAT much better!) one thing I'll always give you guys. Credit where it's due, you guys know how to invent sh!t.

i'm personally quite confident that the solution to making electric cars (or some other technology that gets away from oil) viable in a commercial and societal level will be found in a lab either in michigan or california. and honestly, i'd put a timeline of less than 10 years, maybe even 5.

it's comin. i will miss IC engines when it happens though.

[freedomgli]

BEVs are lame, hamstrung devices. Extended range EVs (e.g. Chevrolet Volt) are where it's at.

[freedomgli]

meh, they'll get there soon enough. think of how fast things moved in the tech industry in the late 90s and what computing power existed before and after that period. i think (hope) this will be similar in that some smart dude is gonna crack one key breakthrough and open it all up.

Downloading pron is totally different than motorized transport. Therefore, you can't compare the energy consumption of laptops and their computing power to cars. They are orders of magnitude different. And no technology is going to change that anytime soon.

[masa8888]

On a macro scale, we're already seeing the population shifting towards the acceptance of lifestyle changes, for the sake of improved efficiency, cost and time savings, and general improvement in the quality of life. This is evident in people moving into smaller dwellings closer to the city (or office). I can see the popularity of EV's increasing with this shift. I give it another 20-30 years before it really catches on (>20% market share), but it may be quicker than that if 1) major technilogical breakthroughs are made in battery life and costs of production, 2) gas prices continue to increase, and 3) the government continues to support EV's through direct or indirect subsidies.

[surefooted]

There isn't enough capability in the entire world to produce enough EV cars to cause an overnight mass acceptance. Automakers could easily meet the needs of thousands of customers each month still because there are literally that many people who could fit an EV into daily life.

The technology isn't there for mass acceptance. And we are not talking about those who can fit an EV into everyday life. There are the minority.

meh, they'll get there soon enough. think of how fast things moved in the tech industry in the late 90s and what computing power existed before and after that period. i think (hope) this will be similar in that some smart dude is gonna crack one key breakthrough and open it all up.

For as closely as computing has followed Moore's law, battery technology has been relatively stagnant in its development and innovation.

[cockerpunk]

90 mile range? sign me up. the volts rage was already acceptable, 90 miles is awesome. that is nearing primary car status range.

[nemo1ner]

I based these numbers on a driver with only 1 vehicle, who drives the average 12,000/year. I take into account that a couple times a month they go out of town to visit family/friends, etc, and have to rent a vehicle for longer trips.

Golf EV

Yearly Cost to Fuel: $4 - $6/charge, 2 charges/week: $208 - $416 ($312 average/year)

Yearly Mileage: 10,000 miles (192 miles/week)

Rental Vehicle: 2,000 miles ($30/day, 2 trips/mo): $720

Electric Vehicle Cost: $1032/year

Golf TDI (45 mpg,650mi range)

Yearly Cost to Fuel: $50/tank, 18.5 fillups: $925/year

Yearly Mileage: 12,000 miles (231 miles/week)

Diesel Vehicle Cost: $925/year

Obviously, I’m not trying to be exact, but give a relative idea as to how far the electric vehicle needs to come along before it is widely accepted. Even if the EV driver does not need to rent a vehicle as often as above, it would still be relatively similar in yearly cost; however the EV driver does not have the convenience and versatility of the diesel driver. I also didn’t take into account the costs of repairing those two vehicles after the warranty runs out. Which will be cheaper then?

[Air and water do mix]

90 mile range? sign me up. the volts rage was already acceptable, 90 miles is awesome. that is nearing primary car status range.

It's not really much different from the Leaf's range, though.

The Volt has that little gas powered thingy to go along with it, making it a completely viable primary car if you only need 4 seats and no fold-down capability.

[Air and water do mix]

Rental Vehicle: 2,000 miles ($30/day, 2 trips/mo): $720

If you go out of town that often, then an electric vehicle is not for you unless you already need a second vehicle that would accommodate that requirement. That is often the case in 2-car households.

[nemo1ner]

Even if not travelling that often, most people go out of town around 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Those are usually 3-4 day weekends. Roughly 12 days/year or $360/year (not counting fuel for the rental). Even that low, the cost would easily get within the cost related to owning the TDI.