K04 / APR Stage III - Experience/opinions requested.

[s t a y g o l d]

UPDATE ON POST #23! READ THAT POST, GIVE ME YOUR .02!


*Disclaimer: have conducted research, found varying results, mostly from 2006-2008*

Good morning/afternoon/evening, ladies & gentlemen

For quite some time I've been seriously considering a Turbo Upgrade



*This is my current parts set-up*

APR 3" Downpipe & High flow cat
Eurojet Cold air Intake
APR chipped (91, 93, 100, valet)

Car has other mods; not performance related though



My budget is somewhat flexible. I do not want to go over ~$6,500 ish.
If I need to, I would consider selling wheels for extra wiggle room (No disrespect Nate!)

I am just curious about a few things. Keep in mind obviously since I am asking, I am not overly experienced or knowledgeable with turbocharger systems & everything that should be upgraded along with them.

SO, onto the questions (please answer any and all you might know the answer to)


1. Should I spend the cash straight up for a full APR upgrade(regardless of which kit I decide on), or piece together my own kit?

2. Is the K04 Kit (all components included) a lot more powerful than my current set-up? I've heard mixed opinions on this question. Along with very mixed dyno results.

3. The stage III kit basically speaks for itself, My question is should I bite the bullet on the extra cost, or will a K04 be more practical with stock internals? I will NOT be upgrading internals, unless I can realistically save enough from piecing a kit together myself and then spending the extra cash on internals.

These questions kind of tie into one another, so really any and all information/experience is helpful.

Thanks a lot in advance, I appreciate the help



Content, just cause:

[ROH ECHT]

The K04 is really a great choice. performance, fuel consumption, driving satisfaction is well worth doing.

I'd go with AWE's or other K04 kit w/injectors, and add a hpfp upgrade from HPFP or APR. It allows extra cash for other things and is the same product. The power from the K04 is noticeable over a stage 2+ even, as my mech has the 2+ and really enjoys test driving mine when he works on it. He even took his wife for a drive in mine because I think he is hoping to convince her to go that direction with theirs. I think on average(AVERAGE) you'll cut 1 to 1.5 seconds off 1/4 mile et's compared to K03 cars. You can easily get up to near 300+ hp with the K04. The stage 3 is geared slightly more toward top end where the K04 will have a bit more punch around town.

[s t a y g o l d]

The K04 is really a great choice. performance, fuel consumption, driving satisfaction is well worth doing.

I'd go with AWE's or other K04 kit w/injectors, and add a hpfp upgrade from HPFP or APR. It allows extra cash for other things and is the same product. The power from the K04 is noticeable over a stage 2+ even, as my mech has the 2+ and really enjoys test driving mine when he works on it. He even took his wife for a drive in mine because I think he is hoping to convince her to go that direction with theirs. I think on average(AVERAGE) you'll cut 1 to 1.5 seconds off 1/4 mile et's compared to K03 cars. You can easily get up to near 300+ hp with the K04. The stage 3 is geared slightly more toward top end where the K04 will have a bit more punch around town.

Thanks for the reply

I was told in another thread that if I go with a K04, I would need an upgraded clutch. any truth to that? if so, any suggestions on quality/price to keep the cost down?

[ROH ECHT]

You may need a dmf more so than the clutch. I wouldn't do anything unless you feel slippage. Even then it may be the dual mass flywheel and not the clutch itself.

[s t a y g o l d]

You may need a dmf more so than the clutch. I wouldn't do anything unless you feel slippage. Even then it may be the dual mass flywheel and not the clutch itself.

I have noticed that the APR K04 kit is 4200 with everything, and the AWE K04 is around 3600, but it doesn't look like it includes everything that APR does? am I looking at it correctly??

Also, where should I look for the proper internal upgrades, if I choose to upgrade them? I've seen sites that have certain parts, but I am sort of in the dark as far as bore/compression ratio etc.

Basically I've been thinking that this is my plan, provided I can make it happen with the funds; (all work will be done by a professional shop near me, unless simple enough to do myself)

K04 or Stage III, LSD, DMF, clutch, all the necessary internals, cat-back, and the labor cost will eat up most of my remainder.

flywheel & clutch, cat back will probably be done by myself and a family member who is a mechanic.


I basically need a little guidance from someone who's experienced with this, as far as what companies to look into, who to avoid, what is necessary, what isn't etc.

[fastdubonbbs]

i got my K04, S3 injectors and Autotech HPFP upgrade for $2200 shipped from ctsturbo.com! other than that i already had a turbo back exhaust, S3 DV and S3 intercooler. the neuspeed K04 discharge pipe and DV relocate kit i got from redline-motorworks.com. these are the cheapest places i found. hope that'll help you with your decision making process...have fun.

[fastdubonbbs]

oh yeah...i'm running united motorsports K04 file. the numbers are a little lower than the "big 4" (giac, apr, revo & unitronic) but it definitely runs AMAZING!!! stock internals so far...but you know that upgrading is always a good measure

[s t a y g o l d]

oh yeah...i'm running united motorsports K04 file. the numbers are a little lower than the "big 4" (giac, apr, revo & unitronic) but it definitely runs AMAZING!!! stock internals so far...but you know that upgrading is always a good measure

Thanks for the info man

Do you know what kind of numbers you're putting up? I really really tempted to just say f*ck it and go stage 3. and then just save a little for the internals and such. I don't really have a preference as far as whether or not it's "streetable" I mean, it's going to run like a car, I don't really care too much if its worse on gas etc.

So you bought basically the whole kit from there for 2200 minus the intercooler right?? what else did you end up needing to buy?

any slippage from your clutch? flywheel?

[mrbikle]

atp 3071r externally gated kit.... run it at 19-20 psi on stock engine... and enjoy your fast car. I went 11.6 in the quarter with just a bolt on kit and supporting mods like engine mounts an exhaust.

[fastdubonbbs]

Thanks for the info man

Do you know what kind of numbers you're putting up? I really really tempted to just say f*ck it and go stage 3. and then just save a little for the internals and such. I don't really have a preference as far as whether or not it's "streetable" I mean, it's going to run like a car, I don't really care too much if its worse on gas etc.

So you bought basically the whole kit from there for 2200 minus the intercooler right?? what else did you end up needing to buy?

any slippage from your clutch? flywheel?

united motorsports claims 280/280...i don't like dynos for some reason so i'l never find out how much i'm actually putting down. turbo, injectors and hpfp upgrade 2200. dv relocate and discharge pipe for 320ish. other than that just a different tune...united is around 600 plus what ever you want to add i.e. launch control, no lift shift...

[arismkv]

atp 3071r externally gated kit.... run it at 19-20 psi on stock engine... and enjoy your fast car. I went 11.6 in the quarter with just a bolt on kit and supporting mods like engine mounts an exhaust.

any more info on ur setup?

[bostonaudi1]

I have noticed that the APR K04 kit is 4200 with everything, and the AWE K04 is around 3600, but it doesn't look like it includes everything that APR does? am I looking at it correctly??

Also, where should I look for the proper internal upgrades, if I choose to upgrade them? I've seen sites that have certain parts, but I am sort of in the dark as far as bore/compression ratio etc.

Basically I've been thinking that this is my plan, provided I can make it happen with the funds; (all work will be done by a professional shop near me, unless simple enough to do myself)

K04 or Stage III, LSD, DMF, clutch, all the necessary internals, cat-back, and the labor cost will eat up most of my remainder.

flywheel & clutch, cat back will probably be done by myself and a family member who is a mechanic.


I basically need a little guidance from someone who's experienced with this, as far as what companies to look into, who to avoid, what is necessary, what isn't etc.

As many others have, I've done the K04 build on my car myself by piecing it together, it saves some money, costs some time. You really do need to build the car up to support the extra 130 hp. As said, my DMF failed while chipped on the K03. I've installed an LSD, SB stg 2 clutch, engine mounts, twintercooler and a pile of other stuff. The beauty of the K04 is you re-use all the stuff you bought for the K03.

I built the K04 up by ordering the turbo on sale from Ciocca parts, installed it (ran it on the stock injectors, pump and Revo stg2 software for a while - ran fine), then finally installed the injectors, pump and Uni K04 software. You can do it a piece at a time no prob, or get a kit and do it at once.

All told I've still spent a lot on all the supporting parts, and now car is a reliable rocket that still turns 32-33 mpg when I'm noodling along on highway at 65. I don't see any reason to go bigger, 320-330 hp is plenty for a fwd car and its all usable power. Just a tap on the gas even in 6th at 65 mph and you shoot past 100 quickly. It gives up almost no low end response to the K03. No it doesn't make the ultimate power of a GT variant but that power is rarely usable unless you hit a track. I'm having a blast with it!

[rracerguy717]

As many others have, I've done the K04 build on my car myself by piecing it together, it saves some money, costs some time. You really do need to build the car up to support the extra 130 hp. As said, my DMF failed while chipped on the K03. I've installed an LSD, SB stg 2 clutch, engine mounts, twintercooler and a pile of other stuff. The beauty of the K04 is you re-use all the stuff you bought for the K03.

I built the K04 up by ordering the turbo on sale from Ciocca parts, installed it (ran it on the stock injectors, pump and Revo stg2 software for a while - ran fine), then finally installed the injectors, pump and Uni K04 software. You can do it a piece at a time no prob, or get a kit and do it at once.

All told I've still spent a lot on all the supporting parts, and now car is a reliable rocket that still turns 32-33 mpg when I'm noodling along on highway at 65. I don't see any reason to go bigger, 320-330 hp is plenty for a fwd car and its all usable power. Just a tap on the gas even in 6th at 65 mph and you shoot past 100 quickly. It gives up almost no low end response to the K03. No it doesn't make the ultimate power of a GT variant but that power is rarely usable unless you hit a track. I'm having a blast with it!

I have to agree especially with his 6500 budget lol . He should look at getting K04 and S-3 injectors from one of the vendors and seeing he already has apr sw its a cheap upgrade for him to get there K04 sw. The Stage 3 is not worth amount versus the difference in power gained for the extra money + all the extra money in supporting mods you will need down the road . Looking at most of the dyno sheets here on the Tex from customers the K04 has more usable area under the curve power for DD and its all OEM hardware so you know your gonna have great reliability. Bob. G

[BLKMSTR1S]

any more info on ur setup?

X2

[ROH ECHT]

No you don't want the $3500 kit, that includes everything in the kit, GIAC remap and no hpfp.
Their hardware kit=$2850, and that includes the turbo and manny, gaskets, hardware, injectors, DV relocate plus adapter, and turbo boost outlet - without the remap and hpfp.

You may want to consider the turbo and hardware, but source a different hpfp and just find out how much APR charges to upgrade to K04 remap.

Look around and you can get the K04 for under $1300 and S3 injectors are $600. Hpfp ugprade from HPFPupgrade, Autotech, or APR is $300 to $800. Stock internals will be fine with a K04, but if you add rods you will need to find a tuner with the proper remap to make more power. They don't like to do Euro remaps here, but BEG and prove you have all of the internals and maybe ;]

Rods; http://www.ngpracing.com/store/index...roduct_id=5881
cams; http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_...&productId=996
.........http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...cal/ES1042050/
.........http://www.ngpracing.com/store/index...roduct_id=4603

[rracerguy717]

Repost without vortex mods sensorship by removing my signature LOL. OP should look at getting K04 and S-3 injectors from one of the vendors and seeing he already has apr sw its a cheap upgrade for him to get there K04 sw. The Stage 3 is not worth amount versus the difference in power gained for the extra money + all the extra money in supporting mods you will need down the road . Looking at most of the dyno sheets here on the Tex from customers the K04 has more usable area under the curve power for DD and its all OEM hardware so you know your gonna have great reliability. Bob. G

[bostonaudi1]

Repost without vortex mods sensorship by removing my signature LOL. OP should look at getting K04 and S-3 injectors from one of the vendors and seeing he already has apr sw its a cheap upgrade for him to get there K04 sw. The Stage 3 is not worth amount versus the difference in power gained for the extra money + all the extra money in supporting mods you will need down the road . Looking at most of the dyno sheets here on the Tex from customers the K04 has more usable area under the curve power for DD and its all OEM hardware so you know your gonna have great reliability. Bob. G

Big Brother is watching. Thought Crime not allowed.

[Rub-ISH]

I am running a K04 and have been loving it...The only issues I have encountered is that most tunes dislike anything besides the stock intake...Turbulence is the enemy of reaching the full power potential of the k04 setup IMO

I think its the perfect DD turbo upgrade for these cars...I ran without an upgrade clutch for about 30k and it held up just fine...I recently went to southbend stg2 with a lightened fly wheel and a Peliquin LSD...Totally killing the corners and the torque steer is almost non existent

My current dyno numbers on 91 octane and a pretty conservate mustang dyno...

264Hp and 286Tq...there is more there but I got a bad flutter all three runs and never reached peak boost. Hoping the new VWracing intake will sort out the maf turbulence issues

[Arin@APR]

http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans20t_k04.html

We have several different versions of our kit depending on the hardware you need. All in we offer a kit with software, injectors, HPFP and obviously all the hardware you need. Since you're an APR customer already, you'll get a fully loaded ECU.

We also have a pretty sweet K04 setup since it doesn't require any extra DV rerouting hardware, so it saves some money and cleans up the engine bay.

Based on your budget, this is the route I would take vs the stage 3 since you still need to consider money for the install. You also should add the intercooler.





Now, if you don't need to worry about the install with your budget, all in on a full stage 3 with HPFP and intercooler included is $6,569.10.

http://www.goapr.com/products/stage3_trans20t.html

[BETOGLI]

http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans20t_k04.html

We have several different versions of our kit depending on the hardware you need. All in we offer a kit with software, injectors, HPFP and obviously all the hardware you need. Since you're an APR customer already, you'll get a fully loaded ECU.

We also have a pretty sweet K04 setup since it doesn't require any extra DV rerouting hardware, so it saves some money and cleans up the engine bay.

Based on your budget, this is the route I would take vs the stage 3 since you still need to consider money for the install. You also should add the intercooler.





Now, if you don't need to worry about the install with your budget, all in on a full stage 3 with HPFP and intercooler included is $6,569.10.

http://www.goapr.com/products/stage3_trans20t.html

Either the APR's K04 or the APR's Stage III are pretty good options and by now they're on sale!

[BETOGLI]

What would you think by adding the following to your setup?

Neuspeed K04 Discharge Pipe
Neuspeed Pulley
Forge's Wastegate Actuator for K04

[BaneGTI]

i love my K04 for around town driving but when i roll to shows with R32T's and VRT's getting smoked sucks. If i had it all to do again i would have started with CTS turbo's kit or Pag Parts maybe. I made 308whp on a dyno jet pre water meth and 309whp on a mustang dyno with the meth. i love the car just wish i was in the 400ish range with a GT series

[s t a y g o l d]

**UPDATE**

Hey y'all. I forgot this thread was here (going through a divorce, car kind of fell by the wayside)


ANYWAY, a little update:

Decided on a kit (along with a LOT of other stuff) from CTSTURBO. (no offense APR! love your sh*t!)

I ended up coming into a little more cash than I had expected recently, so install should not be too much of an issue. SO, here is what I've decided on: (although it is not FINAL, so any input/guidance/ideas are appreciated!)


Their turbo kit with:
Precision HP6262SP-B - 63ar T3 flanged (Should I go w/ higher ar? Also it's a journal bearing, I've read negative things about this bearing type.)
CTS Turbo 750hp FMIC
RS4 FSI injectors
Autotech HPFP upgrade kit (debating on leaving this out and ordering APR/other fuel pump)

Internals:
JE Pistons - 8.5:1 82.5mm (thinking lower compression in order to run higher boost. not a good idea?)
IE Rods

CM FX400 clutch, 6 puck ceramic & Steel flywheel (maybe aluminum instead? couldn't get solid info on this)

Peloquin LSD (Although, not sure which to get; 02A, 02M etc.|| Also, is this really necessary? I've found both answers, more yes than no. curious on opinion)

BFI stage 2 engine mount & tranny mount insert

fluidampr engine damper (i've read that these make a great bit of difference)


This order comes out to just over 9 thousand. I WAS going to post a new thread, but since this is already here with a bit of attention, I'll just utilize it again.

And again, thanks for any and all help

[Getaway Car]

Got your PM man, I'll just leave my thoughts here, others might find it helpful in the future.

**UPDATE**

Hey y'all. I forgot this thread was here (going through a divorce, car kind of fell by the wayside)


ANYWAY, a little update:

Decided on a kit (along with a LOT of other stuff) from CTSTURBO. (no offense APR! love your sh*t!)

I ended up coming into a little more cash than I had expected recently, so install should not be too much of an issue. SO, here is what I've decided on: (although it is not FINAL, so any input/guidance/ideas are appreciated!)


Their turbo kit with:
Precision HP6262SP-B - 63ar T3 flanged (Should I go w/ higher ar? Also it's a journal bearing, I've read negative things about this bearing type.) Are you sure that's a journal bearing turbo? I thought it was a ball bearing. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ng-Specials*** .63 a/r is fine, it's what most guys run on 2.0TFSI's, it really doesn't make sense for us to go higher and sacrifice power curve for peak power that is mostly fuel limited anyway.
CTS Turbo 750hp FMIC
RS4 FSI injectors
Autotech HPFP upgrade kit (debating on leaving this out and ordering APR/other fuel pump) I'd recommend the APR for sure.

Internals:
JE Pistons - 8.5:1 82.5mm (thinking lower compression in order to run higher boost. not a good idea?) I doubt you'll be able to boost over 25psi on that 6262 without running into major fueling issues so the idea is good but it probably won't matter. If you go this route prepare to burn more oil. Stock pistons are very beefy so you could keep them, another option would be Wossners (9.2:1) which is what I run.
IE Rods

CM FX400 clutch, 6 puck ceramic & Steel flywheel (maybe aluminum instead? couldn't get solid info on this) I'll let the manual guys handle this one

Peloquin LSD (Although, not sure which to get; 02A, 02M etc.|| Also, is this really necessary? I've found both answers, more yes than no. curious on opinion) Depends how much you'll be tracking the car. It's one of those things that makes sense and certainly doesn't hurt to do, but at the end of the day in a FWD car with 400hp do you really care if you're spinning one tire or both?

BFI stage 2 engine mount & tranny mount insert I assume you already have the pendulum mount?

fluidampr engine damper (i've read that these make a great bit of difference) Unnecessary unless you're doing balance shaft delete


This order comes out to just over 9 thousand. I WAS going to post a new thread, but since this is already here with a bit of attention, I'll just utilize it again.

And again, thanks for any and all help

[$GTI07$]

PAGPARTS or CTS is a great option for less the APR. Dont take it the wrong way arin but is cheaper and better options. Those are my thoughts. iF YOU GET A K04 you will get power hungry later on. I have PAGPARTS kit and im power hungry just dont have the money for the rods. Is been past a year on the stock internals and they are holding up like a champ However, i dont run it at a track that often so yea. You get the idea. What ever choice you make you wont be dissapointed.

[s t a y g o l d]

Cool, thanks guys

Any other input out there on the clutch?

[Noside]

Cool, thanks guys

Any other input out there on the clutch?

go with the clutchmasters fx300 there is no reason to overkill. My Fx300 is supporting almost 500bhp along with brutal awd launches at that power level. flywheel I'd stay with steel

[BaneGTI]

IMO LSD is a must, when the stock clutch goes thats going in with the new clutch. Atleats in the K04 1st thru 3rd are almost useless unless on a preped track surface

[mrbikle]

6262 is too big unless youre trying to set records. I run a 5858 and I start spooling around 4k and full spool by 4800-4900 on a journal bearing. My turbo is enough for 600whp

9.2:1 wossners are a great low compression option.... I like to think the crowned design helps with turbulence and thus fuel atomization.

Balance shaft deletion should be done on anything past 450whp.

and banegti, you need some suspension or mount setups then if you cant get traction in a k04 car.

[ROH ECHT]

Power hungry with a K04?

OP, for traction, first add mounts and Whitelines anti-lift kit. Then decide if you need the LSD.

[BETOGLI]

OP, for traction, first add mounts and Whitelines anti-lift kit. Then decide if you need the LSD.

Do you believe that the Whiteline's anti-lift kit is the best option? What do you think about the OEM Audi S3 Control Arms?