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    Thread: RacingBrake 330mm 4-piston caliper + rotor kit - installed - initial review / impressions

    1. Member
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      03-17-2012 10:26 PM #1
      Hey all,

      I did my first track day in my R last fall and had an absolute blast - if anyone has not done a track day / HPDE - I can't recommend it enough. My R ran amazing and was great fun on the track, but one thing performance wise that I was slightly disappointed in was the brakes - mainly from a feel standpoint. Note - this was my first time doing an HPDE in any car, but I used to race motorcycles and am no stranger to the track. Anyway, in the heavy braking zones, I was not by any means trying to "late brake" or anything - I was typically held up by others anyway, but I was just a little surprised at how mushy / spongy / inconsistent the brake pedal felt under those conditions. This was a completely OEM brake system at that time. So I started researching brake upgrades over the last couple of months and was planning to just try some better pads, fluid, maybe the Tyrol kit and was tempted by the RB (RacingBrake) rotors, but on the fence on those due to the price.

      Then I found out about the 330mm rotor and caliper kit (thanks to ryeboy's posts on the subject). Yes - 330 is slightly smaller diameter then stock. For me - this was not a concern. I am not building a race car. I do not plan to shave 10ths of a second of my lap times or dive in underneath anyone on the brakes at the race track. I am simply upgrading / tweaking the performance characteristics of an already fantastic car to drive to suit my personal tastes somewhat better. The stock diameter RB rotors were very tempting to me mainly because of the reduction in unsprung, rotating mass over OE rotors. This kit takes the weight savings to a whole-nother level - to the tune of 22.5 lbs per corner, which is a difference in weight accounting for the rotors, calipers and caliper carriers combined - OE vs RB.

      For those who are stuck on "bigger = better" I hear RB is coming out with a set of light weight calipers which fit the OE size rotors, so you could do just the calipers / just the rotors or both. Very cool, but I had no concerns about loosing anything in braking performance with the 330 kit, weight savings are better with this kit, and I got a helluva deal that could not pass up, so I took the plunge. I'm here to tell you: I am happy I did

      Install:

      I had never done anything brake system related on a car before, so was slightly nervous, but I had bled lines, changed pads and so forth on motorcycles, so I had at least a vague idea - plus all the helpful DIYs and info on this forum made it much less scary (shout out to the DIY posters!!!). A couple of notes on working with the OE front calipers - getting the spring clip thing out is not as hard as it sounded from some posts I read.

      My tips from having done it: (1) figure out which surfaces you will need to pry against before applying any significant prying pressure and put some tape on them before prying. This will protect your blue caliper paint. I found that sticking some tape on and then sticking a needle nose down behind the clip and prying gently from behind whilst prying with a flathead as shown in the stickied front brake DIY worked great for me. Having done this, I would say changing pads on the OE calipers is really not difficult at all. If you can change oil, you can do this. (2) the Motive Powerbleeder works great. (3) removing the rotors is not difficult at all. Once your calipers are off, all you have to do is back out the triple-square set screw in the rotor. "Duhhh" some might say - but this was the first time I've done this, and at first I didn't realize that's all I had to do to get the rotor off and assumed I had to get a 12 point socket to fit the nut in the center of the hub (you do not - in case anyone else gets to that point and initially feels panicked as I did coz you don't have the right socket for that nut). (4) if you get this kit, you NEED the SS lines which are an optional add on as part of the order (+ $50) as the RB calipers and OE lines are not plummed the same - the RB stuff uses banjo bolts. I was lucky in that I ordered the lines anyway, though I didn't know they would actually be required at the time. Swapping the lines can be messy, due to the brake fluid, but is not difficult at all.

      Breaking in the new brakes:

      Having never done a car brake upgrade or attempted to bed in a sport oriented new set of brake pads on a sporty car, I was very uncertain of my initial results, so just posting a couple of notes on that in case it helps anyone else in a similar situation. When I first went out to do the RB recommended "brakings" procedure, all seemed fine doing the slower speed ones, but I noticed some weird things with the higher speed ones. For one, it seemed like very little pedal pressure would result in firm pedal feel, strong brake torque, then both the pedal and brake torque would yield a bit and I heard a kind of grinding sound. I'm pretty sure this was the ABS kicking in. The other odd thing was that it seemed like I was getting more brake torque on the driver side then the passenger side, as the car would kind of pull left a tiny bit. After having done the "brakings" several times now and finally getting out for a proper back road thrashing, all is well. I can still get the ABS to engage (assuming that's what that sensation is) but I think after heat cycling the pads several times now, they are able to grab the rotors with better consistency. It feels like I can push allot harder on the pedal before that happens. The tendency to pull left has also gone away. So my notes to fellow n00bs at this sort of thing on the break in process - be patient - you may have to do it more than once (probably several times). Also, I got the RB ET500 pads, which are slightly more aggressive than the default ET300 pads (not sure how much difference that makes, but just thought I would mention).

      Driving impressions:

      This may sound like an exaggeration, some may call it placebo effect (though I did not expect this at all and had not even thought about it) but I swear - I could feel a difference from the first turn of the steering wheel backing the car out of my drive way. The steering wheel effort feels noticeably lighter. It almost feels like the car has become more rear wheel drive biased (it obviously has not changed in that regard - I'm just trying to convey the feeling). Having finally had a chance to flog it on a twisty back road, I am amazed at the change in front end feel. The steering feels so much lighter and more precise. It seems like the front stays more planted / less bounce AND less jolt from mid corner bumps. The car feels more toss-able - quick left right transitions feel more direct / less sloppy. As for brake feel - fantastic. When I stopped trying to "brake in" and just started driving the way I normally would, slowing between corners feels better than ever. I tried to simulate track conditions (which is obviously very difficult on the street) in a couple of places where that was sort of possible, and the pedal feels much more consistent now. Granted - I won't know for certain how it compares in track conditions until I do another track day, but from what I can tell so far - awesome improvement.

      Conclusion:

      I'm sure most people will be well served with the OE brakes, most others will be happy just upgrading pads and fluid, maybe throwing the Tyrol kit in and maybe SS lines, but if you want not only a huge improvement in brake feel but also the incredible steering feel / chasis dynamic / handling benefits of loosing 45 lbs of unsprung mass from the front end of your R, I HIGHLY recommend this kit!!!
      Last edited by motrrrpsycho; 03-17-2012 at 10:36 PM.


    2. Member vdubnhead's Avatar
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      03-17-2012 11:26 PM #3


      nice write up...have their kit in my loooong range plans for my .:R...sorry IRA and 401K, daddy needs a BBK!
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      03-17-2012 11:58 PM #4
      Jake,

      Nice write up. I can't wait to install mine once I get through my crunch at work. Interesting take on the feeling from less unsprung weight. Between your lightweight wheels, aluminum hubs/lcas, and the RB caliper/rotor kit---you've dropped ~80 lbs of front end, unsprung weight

      To put it in perspective: that's nearly ~30% of the total unsprung weight on the front end (280 lb OEM versus ~200 lb post your mods). Doesn't surprise me that you feel the difference in better grip, steering, etc. Every system is working less hard to do their job. Plus, you change the F/R weight balance to 59.5/40.5 from 60/40. Every little bit helps!

      Another interesting stat: the above measurements only take into account static weight loss. Taking into account the reduced rotating mass equates to roughly another 22 lbs of static weight loss when accelerating or braking. Taken together, all this static/rotating weight loss adds up to another ~6-7 awhp for your car. And you get all that goodness without sacrificing DD capability.

      Not too shabby

    4. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      03-18-2012 09:16 AM #5
      damn. This forum is expensive....

      Not tempted to do your kit, Jake, but your observations are pushing me into looking hard at the RB 345 setup, with or without the pending calipers....

      (must remind myself that my present brakes are 'just fine'.... need another track day...)
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      03-18-2012 09:41 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      damn. This forum is expensive....

      Not tempted to do your kit, Jake, but your observations are pushing me into looking hard at the RB 345 setup, with or without the pending calipers....

      (must remind myself that my present brakes are 'just fine'.... need another track day...)
      LOL. You are correct. Peach. The OEM brakes are indeed "just fine", but like much of the $$ spent on our cars, we each allocate funds towards different goals. The stock HU is also "just fine" but I don't regret for a minute switching up to the RNS-510 and Dynaudio amp. I hear the difference every time I drive my car. Jake sounds like a happy camper and in the end that's what matters most.

      IIRC, you still will drop 35 lbs with the 345 set up from RB. It won't be cheaper, but you will get the advantage of the full-sized rotor. If I weren't running 17" wheels, I'd likely make that trade off as well.

    6. 03-18-2012 09:51 AM #7
      i love the stock brakes in the .:R32...though i haven't really tested them at a track yet

      i've been tempted to put my rotors and brakes from my R on the passat wagon...the wagon's breaks and rotors are tiny and i feel that it's difficult for the heavy car (weighs more than the R) to stop effectively (my wife complains that i stop too late in that car...i agree...because i'm used to the stopping power of the R)

      if i switched the R's brakes to the passat i would need new brakes and rotors...and i agree with decreasing unsprung weight (i love my 17" oz ultraleggeras at 17.6 lbs each...i also immediately felt the better steering and handling)

      how is the stopping power of your new (smaller) RB rotors? can you stop as quickly? and did you say that you lost an additional 22.5 lbs per corner? wow!

    7. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      03-18-2012 10:28 AM #8
      Those are some proper numbers

      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      Jake,

      Nice write up. I can't wait to install mine once I get through my crunch at work. Interesting take on the feeling from less unsprung weight. Between your lightweight wheels, aluminum hubs/lcas, and the RB caliper/rotor kit---you've dropped ~80 lbs of front end, unsprung weight

      To put it in perspective: that's nearly ~30% of the total unsprung weight on the front end (280 lb OEM versus ~200 lb post your mods). Doesn't surprise me that you feel the difference in better grip, steering, etc. Every system is working less hard to do their job. Plus, you change the F/R weight balance to 59.5/40.5 from 60/40. Every little bit helps!

      Another interesting stat: the above measurements only take into account static weight loss. Taking into account the reduced rotating mass equates to roughly another 22 lbs of static weight loss when accelerating or braking. Taken together, all this static/rotating weight loss adds up to another ~6-7 awhp for your car. And you get all that goodness without sacrificing DD capability.

      Not too shabby
      What's cool is if you get the rotors and down the road upgrade the calipers, you can sell your stock brake setup and reduce the cost of the calipers.

      side note: I returned to Buttonwillow last Sunday and the rotors performed flawlessly heat after heat, you know how hard that track is on brakes too. I'm willing to bet these rotors will last another year of tracking. If I get 2 years out of them I think that says a lot about the quality.

      I was able to shave 4 seconds to get down to a 2:12 with a passenger though, gonna return in April with some wider tire and practice my driving some more... Hoping to make it to 2:10's or lower.

      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      damn. This forum is expensive....

      Not tempted to do your kit, Jake, but your observations are pushing me into looking hard at the RB 345 setup, with or without the pending calipers....

      (must remind myself that my present brakes are 'just fine'.... need another track day...)
      Great write-up, glad you got everything seated in properly. Enjoy
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      03-18-2012 01:10 PM #9
      Thanks fellas! I am indeed a happy camper. Very cool that RB is coming out with a set of calipers to go with OE size rotors too, and I can understand most people going that route. The combination of less weight and lower price (especially with the sweet hook up I got) and the fact that I also want to go to a 17" wheel (don't have them yet, but planning too) which it sounded like would not work with the RB calipers coming out for the OE sized rotors made the 330 kit ideal for me. I figure - sure, the bigger kit will offer slightly more stopping power, but - when would I use that? I hope to do more track days here or there, but my car will maybe see the track 2-3 times a year at most, and even there - like I mentioned before, I'm not going to be out to shave 10ths off my lap times on the brakes. I just want them to perform consistently and reliably. I'm not sure what the weight difference between the full 330 kit vs the full 345 kit will be (maybe ~5 lbs / corner?) but whatever that works out to be - I figure less unsprung weight up front is something I can enjoy pretty much every corner I take on street or track. Just my take.

      As for comparing stopping power to stock - one thing I did not do that I wish I would have done is try the same sort of 35 - 25 and 55 - 45 "brakings" as recommended by RB to brake in / bed the new pads, and just some general "panic" stops and what not on my OE set up just before installing the RB kit. It's hard to say for sure how they compare in outright power at this point. I'm also not sure if I have everything completely broke in yet either - it seems like it keeps getting a little better, and I still smelled some hot pad stinkage at one point during my spirited drive yesterday, so I'm guessing not quiet. When I drove the way I normally would though, taking little stabs at the brakes here or there between corners, the pedal felt firm, consistent and very easy to modulate. When I got on them hard, it felt like I was stopping with as much force as I would expect, but again - hard to compare unless I tried back to back.

      I do have a buddy with a bone stock R who I'm hoping to go driving with at some point after he gets his summer tires back on and I get my new set so we can swap cars back and forth to compare. He is on snow tires right now. I have all seasons (Conti DWS) on 18s and plan to get summers on 17s soon (thinking PSS's on PF01's, though the Allegeritta HLTs are very tempting...).

      Mr Peach - we are not too far apart, so we could maybe do that some time too, if you were interested. Might help you decide if the lightweight goodies are worth it for you or not in terms of handling feel, and we could compare your upgraded OE setup (Yellowstuff +Tyrol) to RB 330 kit for street drive brake feel / performance / what not.
      Last edited by motrrrpsycho; 03-18-2012 at 01:13 PM.

    9. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      03-18-2012 02:26 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      ....

      Mr Peach - we are not too far apart, so we could maybe do that some time too, if you were interested. Might help you decide if the lightweight goodies are worth it for you or not in terms of handling feel, and we could compare your upgraded OE setup (Yellowstuff +Tyrol) to RB 330 kit for street drive brake feel / performance / what not.
      Sure, maybe one of those PNWR GTGs.
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      03-18-2012 04:08 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by vdubnhead View Post


      nice write up...have their kit in my loooong range plans for my .:R...sorry IRA and 401K, daddy needs a BBK!
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      damn. This forum is expensive....

      Not tempted to do your kit, Jake, but your observations are pushing me into looking hard at the RB 345 setup, with or without the pending calipers....

      (must remind myself that my present brakes are 'just fine'.... need another track day...)
      Quote Originally Posted by gottaluvvw View Post
      i love the stock brakes in the .:R32...though i haven't really tested them at a track yet

      i've been tempted to put my rotors and brakes from my R on the passat wagon...the wagon's breaks and rotors are tiny and i feel that it's difficult for the heavy car (weighs more than the R) to stop effectively (my wife complains that i stop too late in that car...i agree...because i'm used to the stopping power of the R)

      if i switched the R's brakes to the passat i would need new brakes and rotors...and i agree with decreasing unsprung weight (i love my 17" oz ultraleggeras at 17.6 lbs each...i also immediately felt the better steering and handling)

      how is the stopping power of your new (smaller) RB rotors? can you stop as quickly? and did you say that you lost an additional 22.5 lbs per corner? wow!
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      Sure, maybe one of those PNWR GTGs.
      Don't forget guys there are some great deals for any RB option you choose.

      330 Brake Kit aka SBK

      RB MK5 R32

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      03-18-2012 08:22 PM #12
      awesome review dude.

      couldn't agree more with Peach, this forum IS expensive.
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      03-18-2012 09:41 PM #13
      OP,

      Did you take any pictures?

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      03-18-2012 10:15 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by LoyalSage View Post
      OP,

      Did you take any pictures?
      x2 I can't read without pictures.

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      03-19-2012 12:27 AM #15
      Sure, I can take some pics when I get back (on a biz trip - get back late Friday)

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      03-19-2012 01:16 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Sure, I can take some pics when I get back (on a biz trip - get back late Friday)
      sounds good looking forward to the

    16. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      03-19-2012 03:21 PM #17
      Great review and the feeling you got was definitely not placebo effect! That is a lot of weight savings and will definitely make a big difference in everything you mentioned

      The only thing I'm also about is not doing stopping distance tests between my all stock brakes and the minor upgrade I did. Maybe someone who is about to do some brake upgrades like this or just upgrading pads/rotors/fluid/lines/tyrol can remember to do some before and after tests for all of us? Just remember to properly bed and probably best to break the new setup in for a while before doing the comparison.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      03-19-2012 05:35 PM #18
      This may sound like an exaggeration, some may call it placebo effect (though I did not expect this at all and had not even thought about it) but I swear - I could feel a difference from the first turn of the steering wheel backing the car out of my drive way. The steering wheel effort feels noticeably lighter. It almost feels like the car has become more rear wheel drive biased (it obviously has not changed in that regard - I'm just trying to convey the feeling). Having finally had a chance to flog it on a twisty back road, I am amazed at the change in front end feel. The steering feels so much lighter and more precise. It seems like the front stays more planted / less bounce AND less jolt from mid corner bumps. The car feels more toss-able - quick left right transitions feel more direct / less sloppy
      So if I read that correctly, after replacing the rotors and the calipers, OP is claiming that 'the car feels more rear wheel drive biased', 'steering wheel feels lighter', 'front stays more planted/less bounce', etc.

      I'm sorry, I don't know much about braking systems, but this seems a bit far-fetched to me. I mean, you remove an additional ~45lbs from the front (which is still about 1900lbs, after all the changes already made), and it makes that much of a difference?

      Just trying to understand, that's all.

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      03-19-2012 05:57 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
      So if I read that correctly, after replacing the rotors and the calipers, OP is claiming that 'the car feels more rear wheel drive biased', 'steering wheel feels lighter', 'front stays more planted/less bounce', etc.

      I'm sorry, I don't know much about braking systems, but this seems a bit far-fetched to me. I mean, you remove an additional ~45lbs from the front (which is still about 1900lbs, after all the changes already made), and it makes that much of a difference?

      Just trying to understand, that's all.
      less weight up front, especially unsprung mass will definitely help the suspension work more efficiently/effectively because it doesn't have to work as hard. The suspension dynamics are directly related to all the improvements described although the "more rear-wheel biased" thing may be the only questionable claim..other than the overall handling must be improved and the car's overall weight distribution has been moved closer to 50/50, which could help with the "rear-biased" feeling. I've noticed all the other claims with just switching to slightly lighter wheels so they are not "far fetched" claims, IMO.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      03-19-2012 06:21 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      less weight up front, especially unsprung mass will definitely help the suspension work more efficiently/effectively because it doesn't have to work as hard. The suspension dynamics are directly related to all the improvements described although the "more rear-wheel biased" thing may be the only questionable claim..other than the overall handling must be improved and the car's overall weight distribution has been moved closer to 50/50, which could help with the "rear-biased" feeling. I've noticed all the other claims with just switching to slightly lighter wheels so they are not "far fetched" claims, IMO.
      I see. It just seemed like fairly dramatic results for the upgrade... specially in a car with electric-assist power steering. Hence my reticence regarding the results.

    20. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      03-19-2012 06:52 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
      I see. It just seemed like fairly dramatic results for the upgrade... specially in a car with electric-assist power steering. Hence my reticence regarding the results.
      One of the things that's sort of an 'entry level drug' to reducing unsprung weight is lighter wheels and tires. It's not terribly hard to drop 10 pounds a corner, especially if you aren't too hung up on how wheels look and have a few bucks to spend.

      I run my stock R wheels in the winter, and switch to OZ Ultraleggeras in the summer. It's always startling to me how much different it feels going from one to the other. The 'heavy' wheels don't feel bad, but they sure feel different.

      Light wheels (and presumably rotors) change the way the car feels when it accelerates and turns.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      03-19-2012 09:15 PM #22
      I understand some skepticism - no worries. I would be skeptical too. The thing is, I was somewhat expecting (hoping) I would feel a difference at speed, but literally just cranking the wheel as I pulled out of my driveway and driving through my neighborhood there was a noticeable difference. I wondered if something was wrong at first!

    22. 04-25-2012 08:19 AM #23
      Excellent review mate on the RB brakes. Makes me wanna investigate this further. How heavy is the weight of the BBK's per corner?

    23. Member nkgneto's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 08:28 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by HaywireTig View Post
      Excellent review mate on the RB brakes. Makes me wanna investigate this further. How heavy is the weight of the BBK's per corner?
      I have some pics of weights from my install. So just look at my RB weights to give you an idea. The setup is the same for the MK4, 5 & 6. Just different holes in the caliper carrier.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=5642289

    24. 04-28-2012 08:48 AM #25
      Thanks nkgneto! Was v helpful indeed. How does it feel when u first used it. Does it slam down hard when u press the brakes a tad too hard... ie is it a jerky overly strong stop at the initial brake?

      I read somewhere that the Brembo's have progressively sized pistons therefore doesn't immediately wanna slam down hard when u first brake. Is it like that too w RB brakes?

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      04-28-2012 06:49 PM #26
      HaywireTig
      Thanks nkgneto! Was v helpful indeed. How does it feel when u first used it. Does it slam down hard when u press the brakes a tad too hard... ie is it a jerky overly strong stop at the initial brake?

      I read somewhere that the Brembo's have progressively sized pistons therefore doesn't immediately wanna slam down hard when u first brake. Is it like that too w RB brakes?
      I'm not sure what progressively sized pistons means, exactly but no - no need to worry about such extreme stopping power that you will slam your face into the steering wheel from a sudden stab at the brake pedal

      Honestly, it's very hard for me to say rather I have gained or lost anything (so I assume it's roughly the same) in terms of outright stopping power with these rotors / calipers versus OE. What I know beyond any doubt that I HAVE gained is very noticeably more linear, predictable, easy to feel relationship between pedal pressure and stopping power (mushy - WTF's happenin down there - brake pedal feel = GONE) and I have gained massively in terms of benefits related to reduced unsprung weight. I am very happy with the results and highly recommend this kit!!

      As far as outright stopping power, pads make a big difference, and I have just fitted EBC yellowstuff up front (rear yellowstuff to be fitted soon). Very noisy at first, but starting to quiet down, and though I have not really pushed them yet, the difference is easily perceptible. I'm looking forward to having yellowstuff front and rear fully broke in - I'm thinking it will be EPIC - compared to stock - but it's still not going to slam your face into the wheel at the slightest touch of the pedal, so no worries there

    26. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 07:03 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      ...
      As far as outright stopping power, pads make a big difference, and I have just fitted EBC yellowstuff up front (rear yellowstuff to be fitted soon). Very noisy at first, but starting to quiet down, and though I have not really pushed them yet, the difference is easily perceptible. I'm looking forward to having yellowstuff front and rear fully broke in - I'm thinking it will be EPIC - compared to stock - but it's still not going to slam your face into the wheel at the slightest touch of the pedal, so no worries there
      I'll be watching for your impressions of Yellowstuffs with those rotors.

      I'm running Yellowstuffs F/R with stock rotors and calipers and a Tyrol kit. The combination of Yellowstuffs and the Tyrol kit seems to have taken much of the "snap and grab" out of the stock setup and put me on the path to linearity.

      The pads are a little on the noisy side, particularly at first. I've done a couple track days with them, and I have zero complaints. I was hoping they might serve me well on an RB rotor. Of course, I'm watching to see what sort of "deal" RB might do on the new calipers / rotor combo, so I'm not even sure there is an appropriate Yellowstuff pad for the new caliper.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

    27. 04-29-2012 07:25 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      I'm not sure what progressively sized pistons means, exactly but no - no need to worry about such extreme stopping power that you will slam your face into the steering wheel from a sudden stab at the brake pedal

      Honestly, it's very hard for me to say rather I have gained or lost anything (so I assume it's roughly the same) in terms of outright stopping power with these rotors / calipers versus OE. What I know beyond any doubt that I HAVE gained is very noticeably more linear, predictable, easy to feel relationship between pedal pressure and stopping power (mushy - WTF's happenin down there - brake pedal feel = GONE) and I have gained massively in terms of benefits related to reduced unsprung weight. I am very happy with the results and highly recommend this kit!!

      As far as outright stopping power, pads make a big difference, and I have just fitted EBC yellowstuff up front (rear yellowstuff to be fitted soon). Very noisy at first, but starting to quiet down, and though I have not really pushed them yet, the difference is easily perceptible. I'm looking forward to having yellowstuff front and rear fully broke in - I'm thinking it will be EPIC - compared to stock - but it's still not going to slam your face into the wheel at the slightest touch of the pedal, so no worries there
      Thanks for the detailed reply motorrpsycho! It's good to hear!! I'm sorry abt my poor description abt 'progressively sized pistons'. What I read was that the Brembo has say 6 pistons: the first one is small, the 2nd is slightly bigger, the 3rd is jus slightly bigger than the 2nd... Etc,.. N the 6th is the largest n strongest in strength. Therefore they are able to control the braking strength. If U know what I mean...!

      But what u described certainly clears that bit up.

      I didn't know that EBC pads can e fitted on RB brakes calipers. Are the Yellow's for track...? Why not the Reds?

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      04-30-2012 02:41 AM #29
      Hi guys, so... full disclosure since I brought up yellowstuff - I'm not sure what the 345mm rotor sized calipers will use (guessing standard R pads so probably no issue there) but for the 330mm kit - RB says to use WRX pads, which turned out to not exactly fit the RB calipers "out of the box". Compared to the RB pads which came with my rotor/caliper kit, the WRX spec yellowstuff pads matched up in terms of where the bolts go through and the pad surface area just fine, but on the backing plate (not sure of exact term) the leading two edges had squared off corners and there was a tab on the front edge. So long story short - I basically had to hacksaw the corners and tab off of the yellowstuff back plate (did not have to cut the actual pad area at all). Without doing this, the pad in the outside position would go in fine as the caliper is open in front there, but the pad sliding in to the inside position won't fit as the inside of the caliper does not allow for the extra back plate material on the corners or the tab. I have not contacted RB yet, but will try to do so to make sure I got the right pads / let them know about it. This was a slight pain, but I really wanted to try the yellowstuffs, am not afraid to "tweak" things as needed, so it was not too big of a deal to me.

      Progressive piston sizes sound cool. The 4 pistons in these calipers are all the same size.

      Why yellowstuffs? From what I have gathered, they are the best pad for double duty (street / track) and have rave reviews from members on this board. I may end up using reds if I decide I've had my track fun and want a good pad just for street.

    29. 04-30-2012 05:53 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Hi guys, so... full disclosure since I brought up yellowstuff - I'm not sure what the 345mm rotor sized calipers will use (guessing standard R pads so probably no issue there) but for the 330mm kit - RB says to use WRX pads, which turned out to not exactly fit the RB calipers "out of the box". Compared to the RB pads which came with my rotor/caliper kit, the WRX spec yellowstuff pads matched up in terms of where the bolts go through and the pad surface area just fine, but on the backing plate (not sure of exact term) the leading two edges had squared off corners and there was a tab on the front edge. So long story short - I basically had to hacksaw the corners and tab off of the yellowstuff back plate (did not have to cut the actual pad area at all). Without doing this, the pad in the outside position would go in fine as the caliper is open in front there, but the pad sliding in to the inside position won't fit as the inside of the caliper does not allow for the extra back plate material on the corners or the tab. I have not contacted RB yet, but will try to do so to make sure I got the right pads / let them know about it. This was a slight pain, but I really wanted to try the yellowstuffs, am not afraid to "tweak" things as needed, so it was not too big of a deal to me.

      Progressive piston sizes sound cool. The 4 pistons in these calipers are all the same size.

      Why yellowstuffs? From what I have gathered, they are the best pad for double duty (street / track) and have rave reviews from members on this board. I may end up using reds if I decide I've had my track fun and want a good pad just for street.
      Aaaah... Thanks for clarifying mpsycho! I actually haven't thought of the issue on pad replacements w the RB brakes. So it's not a simple issue of just getting another aftermarket pad n fitting it in. We basically are 'limited' to RB's pads. But u managed to fit the Yellow stuff pads on! U don't happen to have photos on the pads installation do ya?

    30. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 10:48 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Hi guys, so... full disclosure since I brought up yellowstuff - I'm not sure what the 345mm rotor sized calipers will use (guessing standard R pads so probably no issue there) ....t.
      Nah, it's a Jeep pad. I'm 'pulling on that thread' in Ryan E's thread.....

      I'm toying with going with 345 RB rotors and Yellowstuffs. Still waiting on initial offer price for the calipers. Weighing cost/weight/hassle factor benefits.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      04-30-2012 12:46 PM #32
      Aaaah... Thanks for clarifying mpsycho! I actually haven't thought of the issue on pad replacements w the RB brakes. So it's not a simple issue of just getting another aftermarket pad n fitting it in. We basically are 'limited' to RB's pads. But u managed to fit the Yellow stuff pads on! U don't happen to have photos on the pads installation do ya?
      Well, I don't know for certain yet - I may have got the wrong pad, or could be something different with the shape of the back plate that is specific to the yellowstuffs - not sure. I didn't take pics, but I plan to make a simple sketch to send to RB along with the PN of pads I used. I need to get a flickr account or something though, coz this forum does not allow image uploads (and I don't do FB or anything else that I could link to).

      I tried to install the the rear yellows yesterday (my first attempt at rear pad install on my R) and I could not get the damn pistons to compress! I could barely even get my well worn OE pads back in there, and now one of them is making a really loud, constant dragging noise Guess I need to get that "special tool" as noted in the rear pad DIY. I tried using a cheepo one, and it was pretty much useless...

    32. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 03:31 PM #33
      Nice updates...I'm not sure I like all the DIY fixes to get things right but the final results sound great.

      As for the progressive piston sizes...your description is correct except there are three pistons on each side of the caliper and the pistons facing each other should be the same size..so there are only three different sizes (on a 6 pot setup), not six.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      04-30-2012 05:18 PM #34
      I'm not sure I like all the DIY fixes to get things right
      Unless I'm forgetting something, the only thing that was not "right" or that I had to DIY fix so far is the shape of the back plate on a set of non-RB pads. I'll contact RB about it and report back (maybe I got the wrong pads or maybe they are not aware and might be willing/able to modify their design or....???).

    34. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 05:25 PM #35
      Cool.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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