Official 2012 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia GP Thread

[Binary Star]

The backmarkers are often in a no-win situation. When a front runner comes up to lap them, they either have the time and space to let them by or they have to comprise their own race in order to let them by. I would imagine the latter being extremely difficult to follow. I have sympathy for them but at the same time get frustrated when they clash with the front runners.

Indeed! I definitely do NOT think that HRT belongs in F1, at all. But to say that Naraiyan or DLR don't belong in F1 is a bit of a stretch. Even Coultard agreed that it wasn't his fault in either of those situations. Both Button and Vettel are champs - and have lapped HRTs countless number of times (well every race they've been in). If one is going to fault HRT for being slow, they must also fault the champs for not taking back markers lack of speed in their driving calculations.

[Mk1Racer]

Indeed! I definitely do NOT think that HRT belongs in F1, at all. But to say that Naraiyan or DLR don't belong in F1 is a bit of a stretch. Even Coultard agreed that it wasn't his fault in either of those situations. Both Button and Vettel are champs - and have lapped HRTs countless number of times (well every race they've been in). If one is going to fault HRT for being slow, they must also fault the champs for not taking back markers lack of speed in their driving calculations.

Pretty much this. Part of race craft is learning how, where, and when to pass someone. I know the F1 rules say the back markers have to move out of the way when shown the blue flag, but you can't expect them to drive off the track mid-corner. One thing I was taught when I was starting out, and I've tried to teach every student I've ever had, is that when you're going to be overtaken by a faster car, hold your line. Don't try to 'help' by moving off-line. Let the overtaking driver pick where he's going to go around you. If you hold your line, you're predictable, and the overtaking driver knows where you're going to go.

[nickthaskater]

Indeed! I definitely do NOT think that HRT belongs in F1, at all. But to say that Naraiyan or DLR don't belong in F1 is a bit of a stretch. Even Coultard agreed that it wasn't his fault in either of those situations. Both Button and Vettel are champs - and have lapped HRTs countless number of times (well every race they've been in). If one is going to fault HRT for being slow, they must also fault the champs for not taking back markers lack of speed in their driving calculations.

Coulthard had no idea what he was talking about with the latter incident; it was wholly driver error on Karthikeyan. DC trying to compare it to Vettel's incident in Turkey with Webber was nothing short of retarded.

[Binary Star]

Pretty much this. Part of race craft is learning how, where, and when to pass someone. I know the F1 rules say the back markers have to move out of the way when shown the blue flag, but you can't expect them to drive off the track mid-corner. One thing I was taught when I was starting out, and I've tried to teach every student I've ever had, is that when you're going to be overtaken by a faster car, hold your line. Don't try to 'help' by moving off-line. Let the overtaking driver pick where he's going to go around you. If you hold your line, you're predictable, and the overtaking driver knows where you're going to go.

Coulthard had no idea what he was talking about with the latter incident; it was wholly driver error on Karthikeyan. DC trying to compare it to Vettel's incident in Turkey with Webber was nothing short of retarded.

yeah okay.

[nickthaskater]

yeah okay.

Feel free to illustrate how a lapped back marker deviating from his line to slice across the back of Seb's car is the same as running wheel to wheel with an equally fast car.

[Binary Star]

no that's okay as that was not my point to begin with.

EDIT: just to keep you entertained, here is a video (~2:00 mark)



Enjoy.

[kfzmeister]

Coulthard had no idea what he was talking about with the latter incident; it was wholly driver error on Karthikeyan. DC trying to compare it to Vettel's incident in Turkey with Webber was nothing short of retarded.

A real champ would have found a way around without cutting over too quickly.

Actually, i listened to the interview that Nahrain gave afterwards and he said that he had nowhere to go. He also suggested that the faster guys often times treat the slower guys as if they were not there. He used the word bullying. Vettel's comments afterwards confirmed this.
The incident happened right after coming out of that turn. Blue flags or not, what's he to do during a turn? Disappear? Suggesting this is simply arrogant. By the driver and the driver's unrealistic fan.

[Binary Star]

Suggesting this is simply arrogant. By the driver and the driver's unrealistic fan.

I wanted to bring up the attitude that this super duper champ showed in that interview but I wouldn't want to give his fan boys any meat. Too late?

[Mk1Racer]

Feel free to illustrate how a lapped back marker deviating from his line to slice across the back of Seb's car is the same as running wheel to wheel with an equally fast car.

Watch the replay again. That WAS the racing line. Look at how much Hamilton and Glock moved to the right on the exit of the corner. You can also see Vettel actually move to the left, presumably to get back on the racing line, after passing the HRT. I have to agree w/ kfz, Nahrain couldn't just make his car disappear in the corner, and while he has an obligation to let a lapping car through, he doesn't have to drive his car off the track to do it.

And just for the record, I'm a Vettel fan.

And not for nothing, I place a whole lot more stock in DC's opinion as to what happened than I do yours. His credentials are 15 seasons, 246 starts, and 13 wins in F1, whereas your credentials are that you post on Vortex. Unfortunately, you've shown over the past couple of seasons that you lack the ability to objectively analyze a situation when it involves a driver you like.

[24vEngineer]

And not for nothing, I place a whole lot more stock in DC's opinion as to what happened than I do yours. His credentials are 15 seasons, 246 starts, and 13 wins in F1, whereas your credentials are that you post on Vortex. Unfortunately, you've shown over the past couple of seasons that you lack the ability to objectively analyze a situation when it involves a driver you like.

[Mk1Racer]

Do you disagree?

[gizmopop]

I know it would be a great move for Perez in going to Ferrari, but he's got a pretty competitive car currently at Sauber.

Massa better wake up...

[24vEngineer]

Do you disagree?

I agree with you, I just think Nickybaby might be feelin a bit butthurt after that one.

[dubsix]

I think this is going to be a great season

[robhurlburt]

I think this is going to be a great season

Its shaping up to be epic if its this unpredictable.

[atoson]

Next! Moving along now.....

[nickthaskater]

Watch the replay again. That WAS the racing line. Look at how much Hamilton and Glock moved to the right on the exit of the corner. You can also see Vettel actually move to the left, presumably to get back on the racing line, after passing the HRT. I have to agree w/ kfz, Nahrain couldn't just make his car disappear in the corner, and while he has an obligation to let a lapping car through, he doesn't have to drive his car off the track to do it.

And just for the record, I'm a Vettel fan.

And not for nothing, I place a whole lot more stock in DC's opinion as to what happened than I do yours. His credentials are 15 seasons, 246 starts, and 13 wins in F1, whereas your credentials are that you post on Vortex. Unfortunately, you've shown over the past couple of seasons that you lack the ability to objectively analyze a situation when it involves a driver you like.

What are you carrying on about? The simple fact is that Narain moved to the right before Vettel was clear and clipped the rear tire in the process. If you dispute that you're nothing short of blind or stupid.

[Baby Schu]

LOL at Grosjean blaming Schu....you've got a lot to learn in F1 big boy.....

[8v_gti777]

In re: Adam Parr leaving Williams- what's up with that? Just when the team starts doing well.

[dubsix]

[Mk1Racer]

I agree with you, I just think Nickybaby might be feelin a bit butthurt after that one.

Yeah, it kind of sucks to be a 'fan' when there are others who actually understand racing.

What are you carrying on about? The simple fact is that Narain moved to the right before Vettel was clear and clipped the rear tire in the process. If you dispute that you're nothing short of blind or stupid.

I'm sure the season would be much less cluttered if I just put you on "ignore", but I have to admit, it won't be anywhere near as amusing.

And you wouldn't know a 'simple fact', if it was giving you a blow job.

[nickthaskater]

Yeah, it kind of sucks to be a 'fan' when there are others who actually understand racing.

You mean like the stewards whom agree with my viewpoint and gave Karthikeyan a penalty? Yeah, it must suck to be you.

I'm sure the season would be much less cluttered if I just put you on "ignore", but I have to admit, it won't be anywhere near as amusing.

And you wouldn't know a 'simple fact', if it was giving you a blow job.

Way to fail at refuting the point.

[Mk1Racer]

You mean like the stewards whom agree with my viewpoint and gave Karthikeyan a penalty? Yeah, it must suck to be you.

Way to fail at refuting the point.

Here's a word that you may want to look up. "politics" You'll find it right there next to "why Button wasn't penalized for causing a collision".


As far as 'racing' goes, do us all a favor and stick to Forza.

[nickthaskater]

Here's a word that you may want to look up. "politics" You'll find it right there next to "why Button wasn't penalized for causing a collision".

As far as 'racing' goes, do us all a favor and stick to Forza.

Again dancing around the topic and avoiding providing any sort of factual statement, hiding behind petty insults and bullsh*t.

Feel free to get back to me when you have something relevant to say

[rrr rr]

You guys can't be saying that Narain is free of fault. Seb certainly should have been more cautious, but Narain turned into Seb, not the other way around. They both deserve some of the blame, hence racing incident.

[Vento]

You guys can't be saying that Narain is free of fault. Seb certainly should have been more cautious, but Narain turned into Seb, not the other way around. They both deserve some of the blame, hence racing incident.

I agree. Unfortunately we don't have access to the telemetry data the stewards do so none of us can really say why he was penalized and not, for example, Button for causing his accident.

[Vento]

Again dancing around the topic and avoiding providing any sort of factual statement

You have to admit Nick, this is kind of funny coming from you!!

[nickthaskater]

I agree. Unfortunately we don't have access to the telemetry data the stewards do so none of us can really say why he was penalized and not, for example, Button for causing his accident.

I'm guessing the difference lies in the fact that Narain continued on with no issue after Button hit him, with the only damage being to Button himself. It was also an actual "fight" for position.

Conversely, Vettel was lapping Narain, and Vettel's car was effectively taken out of the race as a result of the incident.

You have to admit Nick, this is kind of funny coming from you!!

I don't even know who you are.

[GTIVRSEX2]

Here is the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqVGEO0Yp9k

I see it as a racing incident with both drivers at fault...

[kfzmeister]

At about 5 seconds you can see Vettel clearly clipping Nahrain. He had absolutely no reason to move so close across the front of the HRT, except to perhaps bully him a little.
Vettel has nobody to blame but himself! He made the same move on Webber in Turkey a couple of years ago. Keep making moves like that Seb!!

[nickthaskater]

At about 5 seconds you can see Vettel clearly clipping Nahrain. He had absolutely no reason to move so close across the front of the HRT, except to perhaps bully him a little.
Vettel has nobody to blame but himself! He made the same move on Webber in Turkey a couple of years ago. Keep making moves like that Seb!!

Try watching more than the first 5 seconds of the video, after which you'll see the view from the front which makes it very apparent that Narain cut to the right, straight into the back of Vettel. You say Vettel had no reason to move over, well, what reason did Narain have to make such an aggressive move to tuck behind Vettel? It's not as though Vettel forced Narain into the grass; they didn't make contact until Narain had a complete car-width between himself and the curb.

I'm not sure how many times I need to repeat it, but I'll humour you once more: Narain ran wide in the middle of the corner just before Vettel caught him; he was nowhere near the same speed, and he was being lapped. In that instance he absolutely should have used some discretion and got the hell out of the way, not tried to immediately tuck behind Vettel to draft him just because he wanted to feel as though he were still part of the race.

Trying to compare this to the Webber incident, where you had two equally matched cars fighting for position, is just idiotic.

[kfzmeister]

Trying to compare this to the Webber incident, where you had two equally matched cars fighting for position, is just idiotic.

Same Vettel pulling off same maneuver!

[nickthaskater]

Same Vettel pulling off same maneuver!

Last time I checked, Webber wasn't being shown blue flags and wasn't moving 50mph off the pace. That was racing, this was just back-marker stupidity.

[Peloton25]

Is this really all we have to bicker about for three weeks?

On another forum someone who is tuned into Maranello has suggested Massa's exit may come sooner than expected. Since I happen to expect it will happen tomorrow, that must mean it has happened today, right?

Anyway - there's no need to fight about all of this SV/NK nonsense and there's certainly no benefit in making it personal either.

>8^)
ER

[Binary Star]

Same Vettel pulling off same maneuver!

And the same parent defending their same child....