73' Baywindow build..

[A1steaksauce]

aight...it's back. had a few requests that i throw this back up on here...and quite frankly i can direct link a build thread on the tex when the time comes to sell her, so here we go...

from the beginning back at the end of last October 2011....


i was at a local vw/porsche shop that closed its doors and they were crushing their leftovers, primarily baywindow busses. there were 4 left when i got to take a looksee over everything. 2 deluxe late models, 1 early westy that was completely crushed in the front and missing the nose, and this one...a 73' westy that was solid as could be underneath. great dog legs, front floor solid, and only some minimal rust issues on the outer rocker skin. i had to save this and find it a new home as i'm a westy camper fiend. worked out a deal for just the rolling shell, talked my boss into coming out in the mud and muck and towing this back home, and began....

here's the girl in all her ugliness at the shop:



now i know she's not too pretty up front and that's a face only a mother could love, but i just couldn't walk away from this beast. however after more than a few people that stopped by the shop asked me when i was gonna crush her i had to come up with a plan to make sure she would escape that fate.

after doing a bunch of research and looking at countless build threads i came up with a plan. going to lower the piss out of her on a budget. i emailed Detroit Johnny over on the samba and after a week these graced my presence:



ball joint beam raise, ahhh yeah



but wait, there's more...



going to narrow her a bunch as well.

i figure that no one would cut up a bus that has a 7in beam raise done to it. not to mention this is the cheapest way to get maximum low. best bang for the buck imo.


so i started to work...

plasma cutter is a great tool for cutting up a beam. in 2 hours i had the tubes cut free and with some help from my angle grinder and multiple disks i had the tubes cleaned up and ready to rock





now me, i love overkill. you'll see how much.

i needed to narrow my beam tubes but i wanted to retain the needle bearings for the arms to ride in so i had to narrow from the center. now to make sure that when i go to weld my tubes back up they line up perfectly i machined up some sleeves to go inside. by doing this i line up the tubes perfectly and i can also really lay into it with some weld...so it makes it straight, true, and stronger than piss.

getting my lathe on making some sleeves:



material was a bit thick, but free material was free.



i then went and cut a 45 degree into both tube sections for better weld pentration...install:



used some heavy angle piece we had laying around and clamped into it



then i tig welded the pieces together



now i forgot to take pictures of this, but i removed the center blocks and turned them down on the lathe a few thousands to make sure they'd spin freely in the tubes...very grateful that i did this later on

all done:




now iirc stock tube length is like 34 inches and change...my tubes are now down around 28 inches. these next shots of the torsions are good to show just how narrow i went...

before:



after:




now it was time to install. i had to mount the side plates in the bus, install the tubes, weld on the adjusters, center up and weld the tubes to the side plate.

i was a bit concerned about getting the adjusters from wagenswest installed properly so out of the bus i used some scrap metal to tack them in place so i'd have some assistance lining up everything when i went to install them in the bus.





tacked in place:



welded:



really impressed with these, however my only complaint is how low the side wall on the adjuster is...makes it welding on the bus, while in the bus, rather fun. i would lay some weld, stop, inspect, adjust if necessary, and start welding again. i was able to lay plenty of weld on both sides of the teeth so they aren't going anywhere, but i would have preferred to tig these in...oh well.

now that the adjusters were done i had to get the position of my beam tubes correct. i centered them up, took a guess at the angle, and tacked them in place. i went and installed two arms, spindle, and mounted a tire. then i used a jack and put the suspension under load. damn, it came out fantastic. pulled it back apart and proceeded to weld the crap out of everything.

then i put it on the ground with the adjusters turned all the way up:



this is the highest the bus can sit




so i decided to play around with the adjusters and get the ride height dialed. figured i start off with two clicks:



two clicks top and bottom put me on the ground....couldn't believe it.

after i was done laughing at this and sending pics to some friends i got serious...

played around with the height and came up with a full click upper and half a click lower...good:





then it was time to figure out the steering...

massive notches were required. i went the kcw route with mine. scored some quarter wall 6in solid tubing and went to town. took me forever to figure out exactly where to put these. took me even longer to cut them out with a plasma and grinder...end result after welded in place:



put the suspension under load and turned full lock both ways...not even close. then i bounced up and down on it, again not even close. success!



flipped the center pin and welded the housing back in place



one problem with flipping the center pin was that i was going to have to flip the arm as well. so i went and oversized drilled it and made a tapered bushing for it.

here's a pic of the arm with the new bushing installed and two other bushings that didn't make the cut:



bought tie rods and narrowed:






i decided to take a break on the front and get the rear end dropped so i could push it around the shop if needed...

made some 4.5 inch drop plates...out of half inch plate:







installed:





after i was done my boss walked by and said the rear end looks like sheit and i should narrow it. well that answers that.

i went ahead and started in on the rear notches first before jumping into narrowing the rear.

templates:



cut out crap...



cut out more crap...



cut out even more crap...




i remember reading about how franz would hit his notches at times so i didn't want to have that happen so i came up with a different approach to mine. they're not as pretty, but plenty strong and offer quite a bit of clearance.

i didn't put my angles in line, but i wanted it to flow somewhat smooth so i cheated...

cut out section:



bend over:



tig weld:



smooth over:



all done:



i also used my little trick to the rear of each notch to get some additional clearance at the rear.

by doing the notches the way i did my angle follows the body line better and also gets them higher than piss...

installed:



i went and maxed out my suspension just to see how much room i'd have...looked pretty good to me



both sides done:




side trackin....


when you have a set of 17in BRM's laying around the shop in 5x112 pattern that fits your bus of course you drop everything and test fit them.





F me, the size looked fantastic. i loved the additional turning radius the et40 offset gave me...plus they looked good. that pretty much settled it that this thing was getting some 17's.

with that in my head i started on the rear end mock up:



i settled on 2.5 inches per side.

cutting off the side plate mounts and moving them in the amount i wanted was stupid easy. welding them in was a bit tricky but i got it done.

i decided to give myself some additional spring plate travel so i trimmed off my stops before i installed.

before:



after:



i'm not a fan of trimming my spring plates so by doing this i won't have to. plus this will help making changing out the rear tire some what easier.

next up was the extending of the splined section on the spring plates. i didn't have any spare side plates laying around so i had to get creative. i found some heavy tubing leftover from other projects so i grabbed it, some vernier calipers, and headed to the lathe. i had to get the taper in there so that the bushing would sit correctly when it was all said and done.

took this:



turned it into this:



i then cut off the splined section off the side plate and took it and chucked it up in the lathe and turned the taper off of it:



now it was the same size as the sleeve



i went ahead and put a 45 degree cut in both pieces then proceeded to put them in the vice with a piece of heavy angled steel to keep them true to each other:



i took the tig and proceeded to just melt the two pieces together. by doing this and not using any welding rod i would ensure that i wouldn't have any bleed thru when i did go to weld them together:



after i went back over them with some stainless welding rod:



after that i went and welded it back on the side plate. i took my time and went very slow with the tig, stopping every so often to keep the spring plate cool:



i decided to take a quick break and throw everything on to see how it sat:



gawd damn that looked so much better. so very much worth it. glad i got the kick in the ass to narrow the rear.

it was late and i was tired so i threw some torsion covers together....not too pleased with how these came out. probably go back and make another set, but prettier.





then it was on to the inner trailing arms. i wanted my tires to sit flat and level when i'm laid out so i simply cut the mounts off, brought them in, raised them up for more travel, and leveled them out. the end result was perfectly flat tires at a very low ride height.

left side done, right side not:




thanks be to some side work modifying and installing snow removal equipment on a truck...then a few trips to the blood bank...i had some extra funds for the new rims.

viola:





cip1 is great. i don't care what others say. got these things in a week even with the christmas shopping season in full swing.


iirc what side work i did to get funds for tires...i know it was legal though

225/45R17 all the way around:



all giddy when i got back from the tire shop with the tires mounted...only to get a swift kick in the balls. the front looked like total ass. way too tall of a tire for the front. i was not happy at all. should have done more research first before i pulled the trigger on a full set of tires all the same size.

undaunted i sold off some early rabbit goodies and acquired a much more "fitting" tire size for the front.

205/40R17's


freakingAyeahbishes. tied it in stupid fresh. loved it. best part of all is it gave me plenty more turning radius. i went from 7 point turns to 5 point turns

wasn't expecting the drop...or rather i wasn't thinking about it. the smaller 40 series tires dropped my front down a good inch. 58 inch drip rail now. holy hell that's low. steering box arm is now really stupid close to the ground....only one thing to do...

raise the darn steering box!!!

before:



after:



i'm still ironing out all the details that doing this requires...so detailed shots later.

also working on the transmission setup. going to go with a beetle irs out back with a type II nose cone for a raised setup:



pretty much talked at length with vwjunkie about doing a cradle out back that would allow us to use beetle trans mounts and not have a mustache bar or require a universal engine case....he just beat me to the punch on it, and pee'ed in it

so i've been shopping for a 915 or G50 porsche transmission for my next project on deck when i got a call from a shop about a porsche trans they had laying around. upon my arrival i learn it's a 902/16 out of a 911. now i've not come across this model in any of my research so i go home and do some digging. first thing that pops up is that people put these in their later type III's and baywindows. now i'm not really wanting a 5 speed in the bus, but the price was right and the gear ratios are delish:

4.83rp
1: 3.09
2: 1.78
3: 1.22
4: 1.04
5: .79

so i picked up this sucker and drug it back to the shop. when i got there i got a huge smile on my face...

pics of the trans next to a stock beetle irs unit:





damn near the same size. best of all the front mount bolts to the bottom of the trans and the cv's are 100mm just like a bus. i think this dirty girl is getting a 5 speed

more updates to follow...

[A1steaksauce]

i'm back up in it...

i pulled my bracket for my steering box this evening and started to clean it up and reinforce it. i had to trim sections of it down and reshape it for clearance. i went and welded the upper seam then blended it over. i also put a bunch of tacks inside the assembly both top and bottom to increase the strength. after that i boxed the front and rear of it and blended it down. i didn't touch the bottom as it was spot welded together after it was bent over and that's really strong already.

all done:



going to hopefully get it back in here soon then finalize welding it all up. i have to sort out my steering shaft assembly and decide if i want to raise it as well. i only needed to raise the steering box an inch and a half so the steering wheel raise would be minor if i left it alone...but team that up with my raised seat height it might all go together nicely.

[A1steaksauce]

moar progress because moar!!!


install pics


she's in and functioning perfectly....as well as all my pedals. good times. best of all by raising the steering box it brought the steering arm back in line...so now it sits in there just like stock....much pleased.


here's the fun i had with the steering column to get it to work....

i got the steering box pretty much lined up spot on in the original hole so it was just a matter of raising the steering column mounts.


here's a lousy shot of the steering column with one of the mounts cut and moved and the other in stock location:


here's a better pic of the relocated mount:


what was nice about only requiring a small amount of raise was that i didn't really have to do anything other than cut these mounting tabs and reweld them at a lower location.

however the third point on the steering column wasn't hooked up in my bus when i first pulled the steering column. it looks like that will reattach with some minor tweaking....but all in all not too difficult to get this portion hooked back up again.

here's a couple of shots showing how much higher the steering wheel is now sitting:





here's a better shot of the steering box:


given that the raise was very minor i am thinking of not adding any additional bracing like those that do the split window bus steering box raise.


i have to go back and open up my hole for the steering rod more, it hits when i try to go full lock. enlarging the hole will require some minor modification/bracing where the master brake cylinder mounts to....nothing too hateful however....and right now the bus is back on the ground and steering just fine


front tubs are next up.

[A1steaksauce]

free pipe, free banner, $30 trip to lowes =



don't need that "free candy" sign anymore...this will bring those high school chicks running


i've had this heavy vinyl McD's banner and always wanted to do something fun with it....then the idea hit me to make an awning for my laid out baywindow. would be a perfect purist piss off item at my next local vw show


started off with a run to lowes to grab these:



-eye hooks, hardware section
-quick release clasps, fastener section
-conduit clamps, electrical section

some minor trimming got them to attach very securely to the rain gutter.


scrounged in the leftover metal and found some plate and tubing. came up with a way to attach them to the bus to make it a self contained unit:



i couldn't find the length tubing i was after at the shop. my original plan was to tie into both corners of my front bow and angle the tubes back towards the jack points. but i didn't have any tubing that was long enough to allow me to do so.

the tubing i managed to find didn't fit too snugly into the other tubing, but given the stout sidewall of both pieces of tubing i don't see it flexing too much...and some minimal movement is ok...plus free material is free.


time to get started on the front bow.

i managed to find some smaller thin wall that perfectly fit into my heavy duty support legs. i welded it to some smaller tubing that i used for a front bow/support.

another trip to lowes for some more eye hooks...

i went and welded them to the front bow.

installed everything:


all set up trailer trash style


setup and take down is like 5 minutes at best and everything stores easily inside the bus.


i started mocking up for tubs this evening. it looks like if i want to have full frame hitting the ground travel i have to tub 5 inches up front. geeesh...that's a bunch. i might just settle on 4 and change however.

[A1steaksauce]

like i thought i would, i ended up trimming the bottom of the doors for tubs. i've got my templates for tubs done and one tub is currently cut out of metal, bent up, and is getting mocked up as we speak....pics of that later when i have something pretty to show


in the meantime i went and threw some shocks on the front....

dug around the scrap metal pile and came up on this lovely box tubing. i then formed a plan and proceeded to attack it....


i took the box tubing and figured out where i'd need to drill the holes for the shocks, drilled, cut in half and viola:

mounts for the shocks

made up enough mounts for both sides, top and bottom, then started playing around with my shock measurements:


i decided to use rear beetle oil damping shocks as i had them leftover from my 57'....and after some playing around with the measurements i came to the conclusion that these would work just fine.

took awhile to figure out the "sweet spot" to mount them at height-wise...however i was much pleased that i could easily put them all the way up and still easily clear the tubs...so i didn't have to take that into consideration when i was figuring out my mounting point height.

i went and put the wheel back on, put the bus under load, then tacked everything up and checked the operation. worked flawlessly. then it was time to weld and clean:


i took our big boy MIG in the shop and used it for stupid amounts of penetration and strength. welded it up like how one welds sheet metal, to try and keep the heat down, and get as strong of a weld as i could. also cranked her up when i welded my bottom shock mount to the trailing arm...nothing is going anywhere


plenty of space


all done...




i hopped up and down on her when complete and the difference was immediately noticeable. no matter how hard i tried i couldn't get it to smack the ground, and i know i wasn't bottoming out the shock. it wasn't at all bouncy like before, and i only have one shock installed. this makes me want to revisit the beam in the oval and see about incorporating some sort of shock on the front of her.

hoping to get the driver's side shock done tomorrow and hopefully get one tub tacked in place this weekend. tubs are taking forever i'll admit, but i'm going way overkill on these to show off some metal working skills as the tubs are the only thing you'll be able to see when the bus is complete....so i'm making these look the part, plus i'm not going with the normal ribbing that everyone else always does for strength...i've got some different ideas brewing on how to make them stronger, and they haven't been done before.

[A1steaksauce]

ok, tubs took me forever. i just couldn't get my head around how to attack them...

but here we go.

got me a pretty template from which to start from:


trace and cut:


bend it up nice:







test fit:

[A1steaksauce]

i must have had the tubs in and out of the bus at least 5-6 times per side....trimming them took awhile. but honestly it was worth it.

all trimmed up and sides welded down and blended:





now i'm going to let you in on a little secret of mine i incorporated into the tubs.

i didn't want to run gussets for strength as i don't think they look pretty. so i stole this ribbing idea off an early kdf vw and incorporated it into my tubs.

here's some pieces of leftover to show you what i came up with:


a shot of them welded in:


this makes the seat area stronger than piss and really doesn't add any additional weight. i made sure where i positioned them that they'd clear the tires too...best of all worlds right there imo.

and why i did it...pretty smooth tubs:





welded them in from the top this evening. just need to go back and weld from underneath and then blend my top seams and paint.

[GEETi]

Nice to see it's back.

[Schell R32]

love this thread!!!

A1...you could weld light tubing to the tops of those tubs to to keep down the "tin" sound when you roll her around...pro tex liner on the top and bottom will be good too!

[JDII]

WOOO HOOOO!!!

[IronTrap]

loving it dude! Quick question.. with all of the trick machinery you guys have around the shop.. do you have a bead roller? Adding a few beads to those tubs would help stiffen them up a bit (or is there bracing under them?).. plus it would look all super OEM!...just a thought!

[A1steaksauce]

love this thread!!!

A1...you could weld light tubing to the tops of those tubs to to keep down the "tin" sound when you roll her around...pro tex liner on the top and bottom will be good too!

loving it dude! Quick question.. with all of the trick machinery you guys have around the shop.. do you have a bead roller? Adding a few beads to those tubs would help stiffen them up a bit (or is there bracing under them?).. plus it would look all super OEM!...just a thought!

guys, those cross ribs i welded on the bottom of the tubs do it all. they made the tubs super strong, got rid of the tubs making any "tin" sound, and eliminated any flex when you sit anywhere on them.

we do have a bead roller but i didn't want to go that route....everyone bead rolls their tubs, i didn't want to. i wanted my tubs to look nice, clean, and completely smooth. i wanted them to fool people into thinking they'd be all those things they're not...exactly like your guy's concerns about them

when i first mocked up the tubs i tacked the cross bracing in place to see if it would work like i wanted to. even just tacked up it increased the strength a ton. i was able to place a seat on top of them and sit on it without it flexing. when i got done fully welding the cross ribs in place the overall strength of the tub was immediately apparent. and after i welded them in the bus it was even more so...the heavy "thud thud thud" noise it makes when i was banging on it brought a smile to my face

[IronTrap]

guys, those cross ribs i welded on the bottom of the tubs do it all. they made the tubs super strong, got rid of the tubs making any "tin" sound, and eliminated any flex when you sit anywhere on them.

we do have a bead roller but i didn't want to go that route....everyone bead rolls their tubs, i didn't want to. i wanted my tubs to look nice, clean, and completely smooth. i wanted them to fool people into thinking they'd be all those things they're not...exactly like your guy's concerns about them

when i first mocked up the tubs i tacked the cross bracing in place to see if it would work like i wanted to. even just tacked up it increased the strength a ton. i was able to place a seat on top of them and sit on it without it flexing. when i got done fully welding the cross ribs in place the overall strength of the tub was immediately apparent. and after i welded them in the bus it was even more so...the heavy "thud thud thud" noise it makes when i was banging on it brought a smile to my face

Figured you had it under control.. was more curious what kind of bead roller you had over there

[LooseNuts]

this piece of chit is back no here.



























nice copy and past too.

[Schell R32]

A1,my bad i totally didnt even see those scratched in there!!!

f--kin tool,yep thats me!

[LooseNuts]

JK bro. Love you ghey window. Just don't know anyone really that I could use the sticker on.

[A1steaksauce]

Figured you had it under control.. was more curious what kind of bead roller you had over there

we have a couple of rather snazzy ones...why, you need something done?

JK bro. Love you ghey window. Just don't know anyone really that I could use the sticker on.

honestly i would put that on my vanagon...because frankly when i'm done with it all others will suck

i want a sticker for my oval..."your new beetle sucks, stop waving at me"

[Schell R32]

...i would love that sticker on my Bay!!

[A1steaksauce]

...i would love that sticker on my Bay!!

but your bay sucks



tomorrow is "bring your camera to work day you idiot" so i'll have better pictures going forward so hopefully this will be the last of my crappy phone pics

today was a fun one. caught myself on fire a couple of times. laying in the wheel wells welding up the underside of tubs sucks. but it must be done, so it gets done. happy with how it turned out, the passenger's tub is now fully in and welded.

then it was time to blend the top welds...but it didn't come out exactly how i wanted it to. i don't like using filler at all, for any type of metal work. but i'm going to have to use a sealant of sorts to fully smooth over my welds for a seamless look...but at least i was able to get it really close:





tomorrow is working on the driver's tub and getting that going. i've got to chop off the seat tracks still before i can weld in the tub, so that's going to be fun.

[A1steaksauce]

i freaking hate filler. hate hate hate it.

but if i want it perfect it has to be used.

good news is that i really didn't have to use very much of it for the seams...some retribution in all this i guess

filler shots are not deserving of the camera however



tomorrow it should be all setup and ready to sand smooth. i'm hitting up lowes in the morning for some nasty red primer to cover the tubs with, in keeping with the crusty overall theme of the bus

[A1steaksauce]

passenger's tub all done.





and a couple more shots because i feel like whoring it out alittle







this made me chuckle...i dug out the passenger's seat and tossed it in for grins to see where the back rest lock sits:



best way to show just how much of a tub i went with

i'm going to drop down the lock catch considerably:




switched gears and started in on the driver's side. had to get the tracks free first up. then after i cleaned them up i started to play around with some scrap metal to weld them to. they appear to need to be sitting slightly off the tub for the lock assembly to work. no biggie:



i'm going to start in on the driver's tub this week and hopefully have it sorted by the end of the week. will be nice to be finally sitting in this thing again. it's been since october that i was last able to sit in it and that was for steering it off a trailer.

[A1steaksauce]

driver's tub got tacked in place today. tossed the seat in and threw my ass in it. damn, it felt great to sit behind the wheel again. can't wait to get this thing on the road.

got my motivation back 10 fold as a result.

very stoked.

[wulfsburg]

awsome build.

[A1steaksauce]

awsome build.

thanks!

got the driver's tub all welded in today, both sides.

then i decided to play a bit.

here's a shot without the seat and me sitting on just the tub. honestly that's probably the same as stock tub height with a seat



now a shot with the seat installed:




it was great to see both tubs complete and both seats back in the bus, even if only just sitting on the tubs unmounted:



not too much left to do on these things then it's on to other things. it's very nice to see some light at the end of the tunnel with the tubs.

[Woody426]

Mad fab skills homie, and not one tantrum

[Heidelberg2az]

you do some amazing work man!!! Will keep an eye on this

[RafCarre12]

Based purely on the type of skills and equipment you have available, I think you need to put something together along these lines...



I'm not saying the style or the way it was put together but more so custom super low seating. I've seen a few with lumbar padding as well.

Nice work!

[AircooledKevin]

Cool bay Mr.Steaksauce.

[A1steaksauce]

Mad fab skills homie, and not one tantrum

ha! thanks

you do some amazing work man!!! Will keep an eye on this

thanks for following along

Based purely on the type of skills and equipment you have available, I think you need to put something together along these lines...



I'm not saying the style or the way it was put together but more so custom super low seating. I've seen a few with lumbar padding as well.

Nice work!

custom seats up front? naaaa

i mean sure, it would have solved many a problem and it would have been somewhat easy to fab up some recaro race style seats, yeah i have access to a tube bender and can sew like a mofo as well, but that's just not how i wanted to go.

to me the time it would take me to fab up a seat frame, sew up the internals, sew up the externals, fab seat tracks, etc...was just way too much to spend on making some seats.

i've still got a long way to go with this old girl and i'd like to get her driving in a few months.

if i drive her and the higher stock seat arrangement just isn't working out then yeah i'll revisit the issue.

but, custom seats would have allowed for taller tubs, which would allow for more aggressive beam raise, which allows for even lower bay with stock suspension travel. hmmmm. perhaps next project then

Cool bay Mr.Steaksauce.

thanks!

[wannabaja]

I have been reviewing my bentley and can seem to find the section that illustrates how to do front tub repairs like you have done. Can you direct me to the correct pages?

[A1steaksauce]

I have been reviewing my bentley and can seem to find the section that illustrates how to do front tub repairs like you have done. Can you direct me to the correct pages?

where's your updates fool??

[wannabaja]

where's your updates fool??

I am at the most unpicturesk stage of my build. Lol.

[A1steaksauce]

I am at the most unpicturesk stage of my build. Lol.

progress is still progress. and pics of progress are always good


today was a good one. got my driver's tub seams blended, primered, and got the filler on for the perfection. tomorrow is sanding and re-primering. then it's on to seat tracks for the driver's seat. getting close i might be taking a break for a couple of days after all that to help out a fellow dubber with his project so updates will be on a week long break quite possibly

i kept forgetting to get some shots of this...i had to slightly tub the bottom of my doors to make everything fit all fancypants like. i angled the outer section of my huge tubs which helped make everything fit much better and as a result i didn't have to go crazy with huge cut outs on my doors:

and actually the door cards almost hide everything.

[Schell R32]

killer dude just killer!!

[LooseNuts]

Nice work mang.

IMO only it sucks you had to tub the doors. That ws one thing I was not gonna do when I did my tubs in my bus .