want to see millions in tax payer money fd around with and destroyed?

[Bains]

[Imaslipper]

R-Tard. Disappointing to think someone who is supposed to be the best of the best and most responsible, would ruin such a piece of technology, as well as his wings if he survived...

[B3sat16v]

Not again! At least here we should get Pilots/Crew to comment instead of the cupcakes in the OFFTOPIKSTAN!

LACK OF ORM, CRM, COMMON SENSE! That is all I have!

[gr8shandini]

I'd like to know the rest of the story. If you wade through the BS in the off topic thread, it looks like he's performing a standard maneuver. There's a video of an OH-58 doing a few at what I assume to be Rucker with folks in just as close proximity. Is it possible that this guy was doing some legit training and just screwed up royally by not taking the high altitude into account?

[joness0154]

I'd like to know the rest of the story. If you wade through the BS in the off topic thread, it looks like he's performing a standard maneuver. There's a video of an OH-58 doing a few at what I assume to be Rucker with folks in just as close proximity. Is it possible that this guy was doing some legit training and just screwed up royally by not taking the high altitude into account?

There's the possibility of that. The probability of that is pretty low, however

[B3sat16v]

I'd like to know the rest of the story. If you wade through the BS in the off topic thread, it looks like he's performing a standard maneuver. There's a video of an OH-58 doing a few at what I assume to be Rucker with folks in just as close proximity. Is it possible that this guy was doing some legit training and just screwed up royally by not taking the high altitude into account?

If I hear this once again. Obviously some of you have not a clue about aviation. PA, DA (Which is what affects us the most), temperature, are things that are taken into account on every preflight planning, if they failed at doing such, they are really doomed especially if they are conducting energy conservation maneuvers. I am going to say they were at least competent enough to take the high altitude into consideration, I will give them that. Also if these guys operate in this theater, it means they most likely do things as such on a daily basis.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

So does anyone know the whole story or supposed story? I'm not a pilot and I don't know very much about aviation. But I would think to just plow the helicopter into the ground like that would be like me driving my car into a brick wall, there had to be something going on. They do the fly by and then buzz the building, that shows skill to me (again, aviation ignorant here). They then go up, turn around, and then just belly up the thing into the ground??? I thought they clipped the top of the building or something at first and that caused the crash?

[B3sat16v]

It is called CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain). It happens often when pilots get complacent and they do not apply ORM (Operation Risk Management), and CRM (Crew Resource Management) properly. This is a prime example of such. The Army's investigation might or might not become public. When the information does become available for other aviators, so they learn what not to do, the information is privileged and cannot be shared. So most likely, the civilians wont really have a clue what happened unless it is disclosed to the public.

[Ikey3125]

I'm curious why the army hasn't removed the video...pretty sure someone in the Army flight safety could have it removed due to the accident investigation

I know in the AF, anytime we have an accident investigation, any pics, videos, etc are privileged info, and cannot be released without the consent of at least an O-6.

[20grit_timber]

I call it miscalculation of air density at altitude!

[feels_road]

When the pilot approaches the building, close to 1/2 of the air flow will just circle around and disrupt the regular vertical flow, providing little lift. Also, see Abbottabad. Perhaps the pilot freaked out and thought something was wrong with the engines.

[joness0154]

If I hear this once again. Obviously some of you have not a clue about aviation. PA, DA (Which is what affects us the most), temperature, are things that are taken into account on every preflight planning

I think you may be giving this hot rod a little more credit than they might be entitled to.

Things like PA, DA, temperature, etc. are things that SHOULD be taken into account. It doesn't mean they were. FYI, FOB Sharana is >7,000ft AMSL. What if the pilot had never performed the pitch back turn at altitude before? What if he was new to the theater (? If it was showboating I seriously doubt they briefed this maneuver before they went flying.

I'm still going to speculate altitude was a factor

[yz1337]

planning my ass...this is just dumb**** flying. Dude was showboating for the groundpounders and planted a bird, hope he left his wings there with it, won't be needing them. You can get away with some real ****shows in the Army from what my friends tell me, but not when there is video of you flying like an idiot.

[B3sat16v]

I think you may be giving this hot rod a little more credit than they might be entitled to.

Things like PA, DA, temperature, etc. are things that SHOULD be taken into account. It doesn't mean they were. FYI, FOB Sharana is >7,000ft AMSL. What if the pilot had never performed the pitch back turn at altitude before? What if he was new to the theater (? If it was showboating I seriously doubt they briefed this maneuver before they went flying.

I'm still going to speculate altitude was a factor

I will still hold that this is an ORM/CRM issue... DA did play a role, but DA did not get them in trouble, buffoonery did by not following proper CRM/ORM.

And for the record I do agree that High DA did have a lot to do with this, I just think the comments make these chumps (Pilots) sound unaware of their flying environment. And maybe they were unaware, but that is what makes a bad pilot vs a good pilot.

[Gern_Blanston]

planning my ass...this is just dumb**** flying. Dude was showboating for the groundpounders and planted a bird...

We have a winner^^^

[ATL_Av8r]

I'm sure the Army will deal with him as they CFIT

[NickWVU]

I'm sure the Army will deal with him as they CFIT

[B3sat16v]

I'm sure the Army will deal with him as they CFIT

Priceless!

[DonL]

Wow, WWRCD? (What would a real Chpprdrivr do?)

[gr8shandini]

If I hear this once again. Obviously some of you have not a clue about aviation. PA, DA (Which is what affects us the most), temperature, are things that are taken into account on every preflight planning, if they failed at doing such, they are really doomed especially if they are conducting energy conservation maneuvers. I am going to say they were at least competent enough to take the high altitude into consideration, I will give them that. Also if these guys operate in this theater, it means they most likely do things as such on a daily basis.

Easy there. Just because someone makes a simplified statement (in consideration of the fact that there are folks on here that aren't part of the aviation community), doesn't mean that they're completely ignorant of aviation. I may not be a driver, but I've spent the last 12 years as a flight test engineer with the majority of that on rotary wing programs.

Yes, a proper briefing should have covered the DA and potential effects, especially in that theater of operations. And yes, proper CRM/ORM should dictate that they do some practice at a higher altitude before trying it at 10 ft AGL (don't know if they did or not). But I also know from experience that you can brief something all day long, but that doesn't mean that the pilot will be able to turn that briefing item into stick-and-rudder skills. I also know from experience that when you brief a particular item day-in and day-out (e.g. DA when you're operating from a field at 8,000 ft), folks tend to get complacent.

In the end, you have to admit that no matter how bad the CRM error there's a huge difference between a pilot who screws up while performing a briefed mission and one that just says "we got some gas left, let's put on a show for these grunts." That's the distinction I was trying to make, rather than just saying "look at these fools" when you don't know what the whole deal is.

[DonL]

.That's the distinction I was trying to make, rather than just saying "look at these fools" when you don't know what the whole deal is.

This is the internet. That's never stopped people from voicing their opinion.

If and when an investigative report is released, we'll know. Until then, all we have is opinion and guesses.

[andycooper]

Could also be settling with power (vortex ring state) - he was descending rapidly and had a relatively slow forward speed. Add in density altitude and that could be a significant problem. Also, he could have just visually misjudged the altitude - when I used to fly aerobatics, it was always much more difficult to judge height over snow and water than over "normal" terrain.

[AZGolf]

it was always much more difficult to judge height over snow and water than over "normal" terrain.

When I flew PPG, low flight meant flying 10-20' AGL since it's such a docile and stable platform for low and slow flight. There are huge warnings in the books and videos for the sport about the danger of low flight over water, snow, sand dunes, and anything which doesn't present clear, unique features.

[gr8shandini]

Could also be settling with power (vortex ring state) - he was descending rapidly and had a relatively slow forward speed. Add in density altitude and that could be a significant problem. Also, he could have just visually misjudged the altitude - when I used to fly aerobatics, it was always much more difficult to judge height over snow and water than over "normal" terrain.

I don't think it was VRS. As little as 10 to 20 knots of forward speed can take you out of that condition. Based on how far he went after the impact, I think they were going a lot faster than that.

[Seki]