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    Thread: My Navigation gets lost

    1. Junior Member
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      03-22-2012 12:03 PM #1
      Hi
      I have noticed my navigation system gets lost despite the fact that I have a brand new CD in there etc. In the information page of the info system I notice that the lat/long information is wrong and that the direction is wrong i.e. it reports car heading south when it is actually heading west. However, I notice this mistake is consistent i.e it will report going north when I am actually going etc and so on.

      On some occasions it does find itself and then onward works well for some days till it is cloudy or I am in the city with tall buildings around.

      My hypothesis is that the navigation antenna unit or connections to it has gone bad. A trip to the dealer revealed that everything needs to be replaces at 3K+ and to make obscene amounts of money on me.

      Any suggestion will help me diagnose and fix it. & no I don't have a VAGCOM yet .

      paul

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      03-22-2012 09:40 PM #2




      Thanks for your input
      Paul

    3. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      03-23-2012 07:46 AM #3
      Hi Paul,

      It's worth reading the nav threads in the FAQs in case your software needs an update. The dealer scan isn't the same as the VCDS scan that we usually refer to and I'm not sure how it reports the software versions.

      Try these threads:

      Navigation System inaccurate, gets lost, does not show correct vehicle position
      Navigation Problems, Nav Software Update (TS 2025707) [TOC Done]


      Chris

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      03-23-2012 11:45 AM #4
      Hi Chris,
      I did read the threads from where I gleaned the following possible causes:
      1) Speedsensor input to nav system
      2) Optical databus function from CD reader to nav system
      3) GPS antenna function and connection to nav system

      The fault codes confirm that 1 and 2 are not the problem. The dealer says that the software is up OK and therefore the fault lies in the system itself which I doubt since it works intermittently. He said he could not update it due to some fault in the system.

      I am thinking of pursuing 3 on my own by purchasing and replacing the antenna (about 240 USD) above the rear passenger side seat.

      Looking for some confirmation from the experts.

      -paul

    5. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      03-24-2012 09:37 AM #5
      Hi Paul,

      The usual reason for nav issues is still the software versions in the two main components, but the dealer scan doesn't seem to present these in a way I can see. I personally would not take their word for it, for all you know they are using the VAG system that just tells them no software updates are mandated. This is not the right answer to that question. Can you access/borrow/buy/beg a VCDS?

      You could also try swapping the nav cd/computer for a week, if you can find a volunteer donor! Or buy a spare unit, they can be imported for about $150, although no warranty.

      Removing the headliner to change the antenna amplifier/connector unit doesn't sound like much fun.

      Cheers,
      Chris

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      03-24-2012 12:52 PM #6
      Hi CRis
      Thanks for the advice. I will try to swap out the navigation unit. Any chance you have a link to websites where they sell this?. I will try eBay but haven't seen any lately. I am planning to invest in a VCDS and now seem to be a good time.
      Best regards
      Paul

    7. Member EnglishPhaeton's Avatar
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      03-24-2012 04:38 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by pabraham100 View Post
      Hi CRis
      Thanks for the advice. I will try to swap out the navigation unit. Any chance you have a link to websites where they sell this?. I will try eBay but haven't seen any lately. I am planning to invest in a VCDS and now seem to be a good time.
      Best regards
      Paul
      Allegro.pl

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      05-03-2012 01:22 PM #8
      I ordered both the navigation control unit (since forum members and my dealer advised swapping it) and the antennae. It turns out swapping out the antennae fixed the problem. A re manufactured navigation control unit costs 750 USD plus 300 USD deposit for the core (www.VWpartsdepartment.com). So I am returning the core

    9. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-03-2012 03:44 PM #9
      Well, thanks for the feedback (and sorry for the bum advice!) Glad you were correct and it's fixed.

      Chris

    10. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      05-03-2012 05:49 PM #10
      Paul:

      There are three software updates that are required in order to ensure that MY 2004 Phaetons operate properly.

      The software for the Instrument Cluster (Controller 17) needs to end in 21.

      The software for the Front Information Display and Control Head needs to end in 0223, unless you have a very early production display (without a PHONE button), in which case it needs to end with a lower number.

      The software for the Navigation unit needs to match to the software in the Front Information Display and Control Head, in practice I think this means ending in 0168 or 0188. For sure not version 0147.

      The images you posted above of the diagnostic scan of your car do not show the software version of your nav unit or your instrument cluster. But, if you go check your records, I bet that your instrument cluster software ends in xx11, and your (old) nav unit software was 0147.

      The problem you describe is well known, and the solution has been fully documented here in the forum - a careful search of the FAQ should dig up details. If you do the search and find any pictures missing, just post a note in the sticky thread for picture re-host requests and I will re-host the pictures.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

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      05-04-2012 12:31 PM #11
      The problem here is that the VAGCOM/dealer diagnostic codes do not always show up the problem. In this case what I learned was that this was a persistent problem in the car and they swapped out both the controller unit and the display unit while in warranty. The last trip to the dealership they just repeated the same diagnosis but with a 3K tab.

      This is why I reasoned that it must be one of the three things mentioned earlier in the thread. My gut told me that it was the antenna since it is a pain to get it out. You hadto take the entire roof panel off. I spent a good day doing this and fixing the Phaeton can be frustrating. It is designed with engineering and technology in mind and not maintenance unlike Japanese cars.

    12. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-04-2012 03:34 PM #12
      Hi Paul,

      That roof liner is a significant job to complete, rather you than me, credit to you.

      Of course, we won't rest until we see the VCDS scan showing the software versions that dealer put in last time!

      Good luck,
      Chris

    13. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      05-04-2012 04:28 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by pabraham100 View Post
      The problem here is that the VAGCOM/dealer diagnostic codes do not always show up the problem...
      Hi Paul:

      In this particular case, there is not a "problem" in the conventional sense (meaning, a fault code is present), your problem is that the software in either your instrument cluster or your navigation controller is out of date.

      You can see the software version for some other controllers in the report you posted - for example, your Access and Start Controller is at version 6400, your Front Information Display and Control Head is at version 0223, etc.; but the documents you posted don't contain the reports from the Instrument Cluster and the Navigation Controller (controllers 17 and 37 respectively).

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

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