Last edited by Pineapplegti !; 06-25-2012 at 04:06 AM.
I HAD a tune before they swapped out the ECU. I wish I could have sent my ECU to APR to find out exactly what went wrong, but I couldn't pass it up since the dealer covered it under warranty. I am waiting to see how other people with the problem like you make out before I get my tune back.
Sorry to hear your ride is back down
2012 CSG Golf R - EVOMS Intake, 42DD Downpipe Street w/Res, Podi True Blue boost gauge, 42DD solid shift bushings. *More goodies are in your future*
Has APR responded to anyone about these occurances? I know many of you are trying to shift blame away from APR but obviously the common theme here is the tune. It could very well be something changed on the 2012 that was subtle enough to cause failures with an APR tune... maybe they shifted manufacturing plants to China for the ECU--who knows!
There's that, and I count at least 6 other threads talking about fried ecu's. In each of those threads are several "same thing happened to me" type posts. The poll was meant so the failures could be counted and the problem quantified. But it was closed before it could. How many people had failures, had their ECUs replaced under warranty, and didn't post anything about it? There is life outside of vwvortex...
It seems the installers are taking blame and not the software itself. While I wouldn't rule the software out entirely, it is very unlikely for a flash to work fine for awhile, then all of a sudden fry an ECU. But to rule it out completely is naive. Just because the value in the box CAN be modified within a range of acceptable values, does not mean the hardware has been tested stable with the whole range of possible values. For instance, via software, you could change the frequency and period of a typical PWM output. By doing so, you could increase the average power through that circuit & pin beyond its design parameters. I'm not saying at all this is what is happening, I'm just saying, that you can't rule out software as a killer of hardware. The ECU has an integrated power supply, thermal management components, and all kinds of other supporting hardware that is only designed to operate within the limits of the factory programming. A simple error in programming could potentially make the ecu fail.
Of course the installers may be at fault. But the question was raised already, shouldn't the tuner be training them and ensuring they are able to carry out the modifications to their specifications? Why should there be a quality difference with getting your flash from the tuner directly or from a dealer? If the dealer is not qualified to safely perform the modification, then why are they allowed to be a dealer?
Speaking with tech support, they mentioned under 10 damaged ECUs they could remember from this entire year. That's an extremely low number given how many ECU's we chip a day. For example, ONLY counting 2012 ECUs, there were over 60 ECU chipped by us this past week at full retail price, outside of any specials, shows, etc, so it's not exactly the highest volume time of the year. If we count all of the ECUs that must be opened to be flashed, that number goes way up.
APR, Other companies, or tuning in general simply does not cause the ECU to go bad. If it did, there's no way we could be in business today.
Edit, the more I look at the numbers, there's simply no way there's any funny business going on. I started out by counting all of the 2012 ECUs flashed since January of this year and planned to go all the way to today but I gave up after that number surpassed 1,000 in 3 months. Now, that's only ECU's that are confirmed as a 2012 ECU, meaning the ECU part number changed on the 2012 model, and often times they don't as 2010, or 2011 part numbers will carry into the next model year. That's also only a 3 month snap shot, one being the shortest month in the year and not even our busiest time of the year, lol. Point being, there's no way APR software's burning up 2012 ECU's. If we were, then we'd probably be out of business by now if we had a million dollar ECU repair bill after only a couple months!
Last edited by Arin@APR; 06-26-2012 at 06:14 PM.
This is the code it threw this time . Harness tested between ecu and relay .. No signal or ( ground) from the ecu . Kinda the same thing that happened before with my sai/evap.
(J757 the ground from the ecm to the control relay fuel pump high psi regulator)
So, if we assume everyone with a problem brought the problem back to APR, and assume that your sales numbers are unbiased and truthful, then you're at a 1% failure rate. Not bad, not great. At least it's one data point. In my business we investigate any repeated failure (0.2% for your 1000 units). At 1% we would be freaking out and reaching out to all customers with at least an explanation of what is happening, why, and what to expect if/when it happens to them.
Last edited by epic designs; 06-26-2012 at 06:51 PM.
This thread demonstrates the danger of these forums.
Before I bought my GTI I joined the forums and almost decided not to get one because of all the stories of problems with these cars.
If Arin's number are right, 10 fried 2012 ECUs out of thousands and look at all the traffic and concern they have generated. We all get a skewed impression of real life on these forums.
As has been said before, complaints get aired but satisfaction isn't news.
It's just a good reminder that we all need to take a deep breath.
If you've had a problem, this is a good place to get answers, advice and help. But remember, this isn't the real world.
For what it's worth I didn't make this thread to bash APR.. I made it to inform others on my situation in case they are in the same boat . I think APR has handled the situation correctly so far with the exception of the first call I made to the. . That could of been a miscommunication of facts though .
I counted 1000+ 2012 ECU's in the first 3 months of 2012. That does not account for EVERY ecu that's opened so far this year. You're not counting some of the 2009's, 2010's & 2011's. There's nothing on here for April, May and June. If we count EVERY ECU, the number is FAR FAR FAR higher. I'm just going to say it.... FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR higher.
There's also the obvious ECUS that are damaged when the case is opened. These are as clear as day. A chip is knocked off and the ECU is DOA but 99+% of the time it's fixable. It's a mistake. It can happen. When people first started opening ECU's it happened more often, but now, it's pretty rare.
Also, we're not even removing ECU's from that list that are defective from the factory. This actually happened quite a bit and our dealer tech friends mentioned it happening on stock vehicles. Upon further inspection of failed ECU's with the same issue, we found part of the circuite board was not properly soldered, and it happened to be on the underside of the ECU, which is never touched during the chipping process. There's a laundry list of errors that can happen when those parts are bad. Most were actually EVAP codes. Go figger. : )
All in all, no, this is not an APR issue. It never was, and never will be. That said, when something happens to one of our customers, we fix it. Why? Because we love you.
Last edited by Arin@APR; 06-26-2012 at 07:35 PM.
Why are we only worrying about 2012 models? I have a 2011 with similar issues which lucky for me, the dealer covered under warranty. Unlucky for me however, I lost my tune in the process . I really want to go back to a tune, and I would like to keep APR, especially since I've already paid for it! However, I am hesitant to do it because I do not want to run into the same problem, and I can guarantee you if it happens again, my dealer will not cover it this time...
Arin, can you give me a recommendation here? I like the idea of sending my ECU directly to you guys at APR to cut out the mistakes the vendors could make during the install, but then I have to ship it back to you any time I have a problem leaving me without a car. If I go to a local vendor (BFI is mine here in Raleigh) at least I have local support, but they may have been the reason my ECU went bad with the first install....