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    Thread: Ignition question?

    1. Member Scurvy Bandit's Avatar
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      03-25-2012 12:12 PM #1
      Is there anyway to run a stand alone ignition setup without utilizing a 7pin ignition control module from factory 16v cars? I have the SDS setup now, but really want something with two-step and WOT functions.

      I looked at AEM Twin fire and the MSD Programmable.
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    2. Member vwgroundpilot's Avatar
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      03-26-2012 07:02 PM #2
      Yes.

      Megajolt/E
      (<--linky)

      You get rid of every factory ignition part except the plugs (and perhaps the plug wires).

      You need to add a crank trigger wheel, a crank wheel sensor, a Ford EDIS module, and 4-cyl coilpack. There may be a few other sundries I'm missing, but those are the key parts.


      If your pockets are deep, there is also the Electromotive XDI stand-alone ignition. Also needs a crank trigger wheel added.

      There may be more, but those are the two common ones I'm aware of.
      Last edited by vwgroundpilot; 03-26-2012 at 07:05 PM.

    3. Member Scurvy Bandit's Avatar
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      03-26-2012 07:21 PM #3
      Sweet that is one answer at least!! I have looked at Megajolt as well, Is there anything that can read off of the OEM Hall sender? Also could I install a different sender unit and window in the hall and use that? I have extra distrubutors, just want to get a clean setup that I can have some WOT and two step provisions.
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    4. Member vwgroundpilot's Avatar
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      03-27-2012 02:51 PM #4
      Sadly I don't know the answers to most of those questions, as I am new-ish to upgraded ignition as well. I have heard (unconfirmed) that the MSD Programmable timing system can use the OEM hall sender signal off the factory dizzy.

      You could theoretically put your crank trigger on any rotating part that is indexed to the crankshaft... including putting a new pinwheel with the correct number of fingers and gap and the correct sensor inside the existing distributor. However, remember that the distributor runs at half crank speed (camshaft speed). Standalone systems like Megajolt also work best when there is no mechanical play between the crank position and the sensor wheel, which is why most folks go directly off the crank. There is lash in the timing belt, so cam timing varies by a little bit relative to the crank with each torque pulse.

      We really need some of the standalone ignition guys to chime in here with what specifically works and what doesn't... I have lots of textbook knowledge and understand various theories, but haven't had the time or money to try different things in reality.

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      03-27-2012 09:11 PM #5
      megajolt sounds great I would have gone that route but I didnt feel like pulling my engine again (easiest way to fab up the crank wheel and sensor mounting) it would be a pain with the engine in. I went with the msd programmable I cannot confirm anything yet about it working with or without the 7 pin icm as my car is in the shop now. I played around with hooking the msd directly up to the dizzy and then tried the 7 pin icm. Since it ran like crap to begin with (not ign related) I couldnt come to a conclusion, but they did run equally crappy When I get the car back I will try it with both.

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      03-27-2012 11:37 PM #6
      nbrock, I was following your post to see what the outcome would be. Very interesting indeed if it will work... To be honest if I can run a 16V with MSD Programmable only having to use the 7-pin ICM, I wont be upset. I have plenty of 16V crap laying around and about 4 ICM from different bosch cars. I just DONT want the knockbox or the knock sensor stuff in there. Too many wires for my liking... and I kind of already gave away my knockbox.
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    7. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      03-28-2012 01:56 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Scurvy Bandit View Post
      nbrock, I was following your post to see what the outcome would be. Very interesting indeed if it will work... To be honest if I can run a 16V with MSD Programmable only having to use the 7-pin ICM, I wont be upset. I have plenty of 16V crap laying around and about 4 ICM from different bosch cars. I just DONT want the knockbox or the knock sensor stuff in there. Too many wires for my liking... and I kind of already gave away my knockbox.
      You can't wire the SDS directly to the hall sensor and remove the 7 pin module? SDS doesn't support direct coil firing?
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    8. Member Scurvy Bandit's Avatar
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      03-28-2012 08:40 PM #8
      It has direct fire, once I get the truck back together before I swap the ITBs on her, Im going to work some more with that SDS. I really want something with more control than what they offer.
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    9. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      03-28-2012 09:50 PM #9
      If you are thinking about standalone ignition plus the sds... why not megasquirt? Little spendy to do ignition only with carbs, but great as an sds relacement.
      -Paul
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    10. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      03-28-2012 10:57 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Scurvy Bandit View Post
      It has direct fire, once I get the truck back together before I swap the ITBs on her, Im going to work some more with that SDS. I really want something with more control than what they offer.
      Wait, I thought you had turbo goodies for the truck... You going to have this done for VWOTG?

      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      If you are thinking about standalone ignition plus the sds... why not megasquirt? Little spendy to do ignition only with carbs, but great as an sds relacement.
      Agreed. I would just MS it and be done. Easier to tune and less BS with having two standalone systems on one engine.
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    11. Member Scurvy Bandit's Avatar
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      03-29-2012 12:14 AM #11
      Not really looking to run two stand alone systems. I HAD a full turbo setup for the truck, but decided to go a different route. I am moving to England in June, and leaving the caddy with my bro. I am not even considering getting the tune good enough that I could bring it with me to the UK and pass MOT.

      I might actually end up going with a new engine management... something from a japanese company... AEM. BUT we will see, I'd really like to just get this ignition running, but preferrably something that has more control than SDS, that's why I was looking into something that can just drive the ignition without the OEM knockbox.
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    12. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      03-29-2012 01:00 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Scurvy Bandit View Post
      Not really looking to run two stand alone systems. I HAD a full turbo setup for the truck, but decided to go a different route. I am moving to England in June, and leaving the caddy with my bro. I am not even considering getting the tune good enough that I could bring it with me to the UK and pass MOT.

      I might actually end up going with a new engine management... something from a japanese company... AEM. BUT we will see, I'd really like to just get this ignition running, but preferrably something that has more control than SDS, that's why I was looking into something that can just drive the ignition without the OEM knockbox.
      How long you moving over to fog breather land for?
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      Quote Originally Posted by ein View Post
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    13. Member Scurvy Bandit's Avatar
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      04-02-2012 10:11 AM #13
      Ill be there for three years. I have the feeling I will make a trip back for that little car show in Maryland or that one they have in Vegas... who knows?


      Anyone know if you can run 16V ignition with the 7 pin ICM and no knockbox?
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    14. Member B4S's Avatar
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      04-02-2012 11:29 AM #14
      England has WAAAAAAAAAAY cooler cars than we have here...especially the VW stuff.
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    15. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      04-02-2012 12:00 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Scurvy Bandit View Post
      Ill be there for three years. I have the feeling I will make a trip back for that little car show in Maryland or that one they have in Vegas... who knows?

      Anyone know if you can run 16V ignition with the 7 pin ICM and no knockbox?
      I will see you in both places most likely.

      As long as you have something giving the ICM signal to fire the coil then yes.
      Connect the #6 pin of the Bosch ignition module to the MegaSquirt's spark output pin
      Pin 6 on the ICM is signal from whatever ECU you are using. But you will not be able to use just the ICM by itself to trigger the coil. It needs input.


      Quote Originally Posted by B4S View Post
      England has WAAAAAAAAAAY cooler cars than we have here...especially the VW stuff.
      Agreed, too bad they put the steering wheel on the wrong side over there
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      Quote Originally Posted by ein View Post
      * IMPORTANT* The English language is completely inadequate for describing how spectacularly stupid this thread is.
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      04-02-2012 04:05 PM #16
      Go to a vac adv distro and you can trigger the icm with that.
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