Malaysia Donkey of the race

[nickthaskater]

Stop. Please.

No, thanks.

Narain was getting back on the racing line. Just because he has a blue flag doesn't mean he has to drive down the dirty part of the track and pick up all kinds of crap on his tires. Also, have you ever sat in a formula car? I doubt, because if you had, you'd realize that it's pretty much impossible to see the wing while seated in the cockpit and buckled in. And if Vettel hadn't moved towards him, there probably wouldn't have been any contact. As it was, it was the slightest of touches.

How many times do you have to be shown that Narain was even more off the pace than usual as a result of his just having run off the track? He should have gotten out of the way, and stayed out of the way as the leaders were going past, not tried to cheekily tuck back up behind right on Vettel's gearbox in some vain attempt at getting a tow.

Yes, I have sat in a Formula 1 car, and a CART car, and a NASCAR Cup car, and various dragsters. I've also watched eye-level helmet cam video of today's Formula 1 cars. I have a pretty good idea of what they can see. There is no way that Narain couldn't see the back of Vettel's car as he was 95% in front of Narain; and if he doesn't have the spacial awareness to judge "hey, maybe I shouldn't move over quite yet", then he's an idiot (and apparently a gherkin).

If Vettel hadn't move toward him there probably wouldn't have been any contact? Guess what, Vettel was on the lead lap and passing a car that had just gone off the track and was going much slower. If Karthikeyan hadn't moved towards Vettel, there probably wouldn't have been any contact.

You put up the argument that "every other driver" has done what Vettel did, yet have ignored the fact that the driver standards of conduct are now more stringent.

Like I said, I hope you never ever complain that drivers don't show emotion or that the racing is boring if you want to hold so steadfast to those standards. I couldn't care less about the standards of conduct, because most of them are complete and utter bullsh*t. e.g. Penalizing a driver for celebrating after a race? Yeah, that makes total sense, you're on the ball!

I don't have a bias against you. You're not that important. But you have demonstrated no level of objectivity when it comes to Vettel. You don't want to listen to anyone else, and won't entertain the possibility that your analysis might be wrong. I stand by my earlier comment, you've become the '06TornadoGTIPete of this forum.

I'm not that important? You sure have a funny way of showing that, what with your constant remarks to me when I make a post, even when it has nothing to do with you.

You have demonstrated no level of objectivity when it comes to responses to my posts, whatever they may be. You don't want to listen to me, or entertain the possibility that my analysis may be right. I stand by my earlier comment that you're simply obsessed and need to get a new friend to play with (PS. I have no idea who "'06TornadoGTIPete" is, so if that's meant as an insult, try again).

You mean by posting quotes to support your argument, you call DC 'retarded' for referring to the incident for what it was, a racing incident? Or do you feel that you are equally qualified as he is to provide analysis on the incident? You wave around the penalty the stewards handed out as validation for your position. Yet it was obviously such a politically motivated move that the stewards themselves can't even articulate an explanation as to why they did it.

I absolutely feel I'm equally qualified to judge the incident, considering it doesn't take any knowledge of how to drive a Formula 1 car to see that Karthikeyan, a lapped car travelling at a greatly reduced rate of speed, moved toward the lead-lap car that was passing him.

Please tell me what political motivation there was/is to penalize Karthikeyan? It was a meaningless penalty which achieves nothing, and no one even knew about it because it was handed out so swiftly.

[Tim@VMG]

Folks:

No more personal insults or racist comments, please.

Thanks.

-Tim

[Mk1Racer]

I absolutely feel I'm equally qualified to judge the incident, considering it doesn't take any knowledge of how to drive a Formula 1 car to see that Karthikeyan, a lapped car travelling at a greatly reduced rate of speed, moved toward the lead-lap car that was passing him.

Really? You're as qualified as a guy w/ 15 seasons, almost 250 races, and 13 wins? Really? Maybe you can post some of your credentials.

And just a couple of points. Showing emotion <> flipping someone off or insulting them. As far as the political motivation for the penalty, are you really that clueless? Yes, it is a meaningless penalty, in terms that all it did was flip the finishing order for the HRT cars. But it certainly achieves more than nothing. It's throwing a bone to the current WDC. If it was anything more than a BS penalty, the stewards would have been able to articulate why it was handed out.

[kfzmeister]

Vettel's receiving quite the criticism for his antics. Like has been mentioned before, everybody is watching the two time champ to see how he handles himself in a car that is not as dominant as the last two years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewben...ampion_un.html

[Vento]

Vettel's receiving quite the criticism for his antics. Like has been mentioned before, everybody is watching the two time champ to see how he handles himself in a car that is not as dominant as the last two years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewben...ampion_un.html

Seems like this is becoming the norm for these young hot shot drivers. They get used to winning and don't have the experience/maturity to take a loss and learn from it. Hamilton went through the same thing in 2009 and 2010 and then had to face his own demons in 2011.

Vettle's got some extreme talent... but with seasoned skilled drivers like Button, Alonso and Raikkonen on the grid (perhaps Hamilton as well now), he's got to stay calm and focused if he wants another title.

[nickthaskater]

People are really grasping it seems, or did we already forget that Vettel finished 2nd in Australia and was looking strong for another podium in Malaysia? If that's a "difficult" season, I guess that kind of speaks to the success he's had recently...

[Mk1Racer]

People are really grasping it seems, or did we already forget that Vettel finished 2nd in Australia and was looking strong for another podium in Malaysia? If that's a "difficult" season, I guess that kind of speaks to the success he's had recently...

Compared to last year though, where he had 15 poles (4 in a row to start), and was only off the front row once (Germany, 3rd), it's valid to say that he's not at dominant as he was last year (to this point). Not to mention that Webber has out-qualified him in both races so far. He only did that 3 times all of last year.

[Kidstar]

The unniest comment ever!

"I have won races in all the previous single-seater championships I have participated in so I don't need a certificate from Vettel."

[nickthaskater]

Compared to last year though, where he had 15 poles (4 in a row to start), and was only off the front row once (Germany, 3rd), it's valid to say that he's not at dominant as he was last year (to this point). Not to mention that Webber has out-qualified him in both races so far. He only did that 3 times all of last year.

We're two races in, with the last one being a total crapshoot... Hardly enough to make a concrete judgment by, don't you think?

Webber may have out-qualified Vettel, but Vettel has had the better race-pace (he was ahead of Webber and closing in on Lewis in Sepang just before his tire shredded). It's also worth noting Vettel qualified on the harder compound in Sepang whereas Mark was on the softer, and yet they were just 0.173 seconds apart in spite of that.

*shrug* 2010 was far from a dominant season for Seb, but he always looked to the next weekend and in the end it paid off. I see no reason why he can't do the same now.

[24vEngineer]

^^^ Good News!

Petrov agrees with you!

Sebastian Vettel was completely at fault for the incident which cost him any chance of points in Sunday’s Malaysian Grand Prix. That is the opinion of Vitaly Petrov, who in 2012 is competing with a back-of-the-grid team for the first time.

In the midfield with Renault in 2010 and 2011, Petrov replaced Jarno Trulli at Caterham for the start of this year. He is sure that fellow tail-ender Karthikeyan did nothing wrong, with the double World Champion having labelled the HRT driver ‘cucumber’ and ‘idiot’ in the minutes which followed the race.


Vettel unhappily spoke to the media after the race
“Vettel shouldn’t have said anything like that or showed him the finger,” Petrov told Russia’s RIA Novosti. “I understand that it’s the emotions, the race. You can understand situations like that, but you have to control yourself.

“Karthikeyan didn’t do anything unnecessary - didn’t hit him, didn’t change direction sharply. Sebastian overtook him and started to turn. But Narain was going straight.”

Karthikeyan was handed a 20-second time penalty for the incident by FIA race stewards including three-time Grand Prix winner Johnny Herbert.

[Kidstar]

I'm sorry... I'm having trouble understanding Nicks concept of "evidence" and his presentation thereof..

How can a still picture after the fact, support as evidence of a supposed moving violation? The angle is not even correct to suggest or deduce that....even in the most conservative sense! The pic provides nothing more than 2 cars, one with some distance from the curb.... Big whoop.... As far as I know, you're supposed to stay off the curb....or am I just another finger flapper?

Please explain.

[nickthaskater]

^^^ Good News!

Petrov agrees with you!

But Narain was going straight.

Even if you think Vettel caused the accident, it's pretty evident that Narain was not going straight when the collision occurred.

Also, lol @ Petrov speaking of self-control...

“Unfortunately I cannot say anything bad about the team,” he told Rossiya 2, “it says so in my contract. I still can't speak about it, but on the same side, I can't stay silent anymore. I've had enough of it and I can't keep everything inside.

Rant continued...

I'm sorry... I'm having trouble understanding Nicks concept of "evidence" and his presentation thereof..

How can a still picture after the fact, support as evidence of a supposed moving violation? The angle is not even correct to suggest or deduce that....even in the most conservative sense! The pic provides nothing more than 2 cars, one with some distance from the curb.... Big whoop.... As far as I know, you're supposed to stay off the curb....or am I just another finger flapper?

Please explain.

I posted two still pictures which clearly illustrate Narains diversion to the right (the first picture shows Narain against the curb, the second shows a car-width between his car and the curb); however, I have also posted video several times which shows not only Narain moving to the right (evident in the frontal view), but also Narain running off track and losing much of his speed just prior to Vettel catching him.

[Kidstar]

Even if you think Vettel caused the accident, it's pretty evident that Narain was not going straight when the collision occurred.

Also, lol @ Petrov speaking of self-control...


I posted two still pictures which clearly illustrate Narains diversion to the right (the first picture shows Narain against the curb, the second shows a car-width between his car and the curb); however, I have also posted video several times which shows not only Narain moving to the right (evident in the frontal view), but also Narain running off track and losing much of his speed just prior to Vettel catching him.

OK...

Duly noted...

[Mk1Racer]

We're two races in, with the last one being a total crapshoot... Hardly enough to make a concrete judgment by, don't you think?

Webber may have out-qualified Vettel, but Vettel has had the better race-pace (he was ahead of Webber and closing in on Lewis in Sepang just before his tire shredded). It's also worth noting Vettel qualified on the harder compound in Sepang whereas Mark was on the softer, and yet they were just 0.173 seconds apart in spite of that.

*shrug* 2010 was far from a dominant season for Seb, but he always looked to the next weekend and in the end it paid off. I see no reason why he can't do the same now.

Vettel qualified on the hard tires because he had to try something, as he didn't have the pace w/ the mediums. I'm guessing the strategy was that he could go longer off the start on the hards than the mediums. But the weather made all that moot.

And once they went to slicks at the end of the race, it didn't seem like the mediums were any faster than the hards, as Perez caught back up to Alonso after Sauber blew the strategy and pitted him a lap later. That, and Hamilton couldn't catch Perez, even though he (Hamilton) was on the mediums, and had the faster car (based on qualifying).

[kfzmeister]

it's pretty evident that Narain was not going straight when the collision occurred.

Straight? The racing line shifts from left to right on that straight. It is deceptive on that pic. That circuit has straights that are as wide as a runway!!!!!!

He couldn't get around Nahrain?

[kfzmeister]

*shrug* 2010 was far from a dominant season for Seb, but he always looked to the next weekend and in the end it paid off. I see no reason why he can't do the same now.

I do. The car is far from the same!

[nickthaskater]

I do. The car is far from the same!

I don't see your point. The question is how does he cope with adversity, I said see 2010. Hell, look at 2009 as well for that matter, or his time in the mid-field STR.

If you're going to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, don't even bother replying

[kfzmeister]

What adversity? The only adversity he encountered was self created. He's had the fastest car since 2009. Eventually he became champ (after almost handing it to Alonso).
This year he's going to face some adversity and let's see how he handles it (not stellar so far). Car is not fastest anymore. Car now understeers more whcih doesn't suit his style, but does Webber.
I bet Vettel won't be champ this year!

[nickthaskater]

What adversity? The only adversity he encountered was self created. He's had the fastest car since 2009. Eventually he became champ (after almost handing it to Alonso).
This year he's going to face some adversity and let's see how he handles it (not stellar so far). Car is not fastest anymore. Car now understeers more whcih doesn't suit his style, but does Webber.
I bet Vettel won't be champ this year!

2009 was dominated by Brawn, not Red Bull. As far as "adversity" in 2009, yes it was self-inflicted for the most part save for an engine blowing out, but even after his incidents, engine blow out and poor performance at Monza, he kept his head up and didn't give up. He ended up losing to Button by just 11 points.

2010 was much more on the car's shoulders than Vettel's as far as adversity goes. The RB6 was a fast car to be sure, but it definitely had its share of issues (reminiscent of the Newey McLaren's that Raikkonen drove).

First round in Bahrain Vettel had the win all but sealed up, but his engine developed a spark issue and he was passed to finish in 4th.

Round 2 in Australia found Vettel yet again cruising home to an otherwise guaranteed victory, until his wheel failed and put him in the gravel.

Round 4 in China saw some rain, with Vettel being caught out on inters with the track drying, and having to pit again. He came home in 6th.

Round 5 at Catalunya had Vettel again in a strong position, only to lose out by a mistake in the pits. His brakes began to fail later in the race which put him into the gravel and forced an unscheduled stop and a reduced pace for the remainder of the GP. He still finished 3rd.

Round 8 in Canada brought gearbox issues which compromised his pace.

The 10th round in Britain earned Vettel a puncture on lap 1.

Round 12 in Hungary had Vettel get dinged with a drive-thru penalty for falling too far behind under the safety.

Round 14 at Monza saw more engine issues which dropped him way down the order.

Round 17 in Korea resulted in a blown engine for Vettel.

9 races out of 19 in 2010 saw him faced with adverse scenarios out of his control, and yet he, again, never gave up. Look where that got him

If you can still say, after reading all of the above, that he 'almost handed it' away and that he can't deal with adversity, then there's no point in continuing this discussion, lol.

[rrr rr]

Round 12 in Hungary had Vettel get dinged with a drive-thru penalty for falling too far behind under the safety.

This was NOT beyond his control.

9 8 races out of 19 in 2010 saw him faced with adverse scenarios out of his control, and yet he, again, never gave up. Look where that got him

Just trying to keep the facts straight.

[nickthaskater]

This was NOT beyond his control.

Just trying to keep the facts straight.

Sorry, you're right, it was; however, it was a questionable call to say the least as it's not as though it gave Vettel any sort of advantage (remember, he was behind Webber at the time in 2nd).

*shrug* Regardless, 8 races is no small amount to have issues in over a given season.

[Binary Star]

it was; however, it was a questionable call to say the least as it's not as though it gave Vettel any sort of advantage

what.the.clusterfudge.

[Vento]

I don't see your point. The question is how does he cope with adversity, I said see 2010. Hell, look at 2009 as well for that matter, or his time in the mid-field STR.

If you're going to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, don't even bother replying

The adversity of a green midfield driver is a lot different than the adversity of a consecutive double world champion who basically had a flawless win to the championship in 2011.

He's may well turn things around in the next few races, but right now he's bumping and grinding his way to the front in a way which he never really had to do before. The times he had to face true adversity (pit lane penalty, colliding with Webber, Karthikeyan incident) he visibly and verbally lost his cool... as long as he doesn't bring that to the track at the next race, then he should be fine... some magic engineering from Newey would help a bit too!

[Baby Schu]

he visibly and verbally lost his cool... as long as he doesn't bring that to the track at the next race, then he should be fine...

Are you talking about Vettel or Hamilton?

[kfzmeister]

2009 was dominated by Brawn, not Red Bull.

My midseason, Brawn was not the fastest car anymore. Button had at that point a huge lead, yet RB had the faster car by then.

Don't forget the Spa crash with Button to add to all that "self inflicted adversity"

[nickthaskater]

My midseason, Brawn was not the fastest car anymore. Button had at that point a huge lead, yet RB had the faster car by then.

Don't forget the Spa crash with Button to add to all that "self inflicted adversity"

Rubens Still picked up a couple of wins toward the end of the season, but regardless, the fact that it took until midseason for the other teams to catch up to Brawn kind of shows that it wasn't dominated by RBR as previously suggested.

The Spa crash with Button was in 2010, and was one of two or three crashes for Vettel vs 8 car related issues that year. I believe in a previous post where I detailed this fact some time ago I illustrated that Alonso, Hamilton and Webber all had their share of crashes as well that year.

[J-Tim]

This wasn't the first time, Vettel cut someone off and ruined his race. He's already one that in Turkey, back in 2010, where he collided with Webber.

[nickthaskater]

This wasn't the first time, Vettel cut someone off and ruined his race. He's already one that in Turkey, back in 2010, where he collided with Webber.

So glad you brought that up, because nobody has mentioned it thus far.

[Baby Schu]

Reminds me of when Button took out hamilton in Canada last year and then blamed hamilton ("What is he doing!!")

[kfzmeister]

So glad you brought that up, because nobody has mentioned it thus far.

Some people simply do not acknowledge comments like this. They have to be told over and over and over again. Sometimes it settles in. Then, we move on.

[kfzmeister]

Reminds me of when Button took out hamilton in Canada last year and then blamed hamilton ("What is he doing!!")

Subjective?

[Mk1Racer]

Originally Posted by nickthaskater
So glad you brought that up, because nobody has mentioned it thus far.

Some people simply do not acknowledge comments like this. They have to be told over and over and over again. Sometimes it settles in. Then, we move on.

Damn, I wish the ignore list worked on quotes as well. But I do find it funny how nicky complains when someone makes he thinks is a snide comment to him, but doesn't hold himself to the same standard.

[nickthaskater]

Some people simply do not acknowledge comments like this. They have to be told over and over and over again. Sometimes it settles in. Then, we move on.

Damn, I wish the ignore list worked on quotes as well. But I do find it funny how nicky complains when someone makes he thinks is a snide comment to him, but doesn't hold himself to the same standard.

My remark had nothing to do with anyone being snide, I just thought it was stupid of him to mention it when it's already been stated time and time again. Try bringing something new to the table.

PS. Nice how you "ignore" me and yet you still talk about me, referring to me as "nicky" no less Good job. Do you feel cool putting a "y" at the end of my name?

[kfzmeister]

My remark had nothing to do with anyone being snide, I just thought it was stupid of him to mention it when it's already been stated time and time again. Try bringing something new to the table.

snide/snīd/ Adjective: Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"

Soooo, you managed to define it to a tee and then made a snide remark about Mk1Racer!

It just doesn't get any better than this!!

[nickthaskater]

snide/snīd/ Adjective: Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"

Soooo, you managed to define it to a tee and then made a snide remark about Mk1Racer!

It just doesn't get any better than this!!

What are you talking about? Mk1 said that I complained when you made a snide comment; I corrected him in that I didn't your comment as snide, but rather just as stupid. If you intended it as snide, you failed.

And there's nothing snide about my remark, either; my comment was most direct.