Malaysia Donkey of the race

[J-Tim]

My remark had nothing to do with anyone being snide, I just thought it was stupid of him to mention it when it's already been stated time and time again. Try bringing something new to the table.

The reason why I bought this up is because you keep on saying that your mate Seb did nothing wrong in that crash, where in fact he's done almost exactly the same two years ago.

Your tongue is way too deep Seb's ass.... get it out.

[nickthaskater]

The reason why I bought this up is because you keep on saying that your mate Seb did nothing wrong in that crash, where in fact he's done almost exactly the same two years ago.

Your tongue is way too deep Seb's ass.... get it out.

I also keep saying that the Webber - Vettel incident was a racing incident and was not a product of a blue-flagged back-marker travelling at a greatly reduced rate of speed only to move over on a lead-lap car rather than staying out of the way for some inexplicable reason.

The fact that you (and others) keep refusing to recognize this fact just goes to show how far up your collective asses your heads really are.

Say what you want about the incident in Turkey, but it is not comparable to what happened in Malaysia, other than the fact that two cars hit each other.

Additionally, the fact that you guys have to keep dragging out a singular incident from 2 years ago just to slam Vettel and myself is really, really stretching to find something to bitch and moan about.

[kfzmeister]

Say what you want about the incident in Turkey, but it is not comparable to what happened in Malaysia, other than the fact that two cars hit each other.

Twice he didn't have the pass completed when he cut over too soon and caused himself some damage. Once he crashed and once he cut his tire. Same move. You might as well say that the incidents are not comparable cause once it was in Turkey and once in Malaysia, therefore not the same. Lol

[Vento]

I also keep saying that the Webber - Vettel incident was a racing incident and was not a product of a blue-flagged back-marker travelling at a greatly reduced rate of speed only to move over on a lead-lap car rather than staying out of the way for some inexplicable reason.

The fact that you (and others) keep refusing to recognize this fact just goes to show how far up your collective asses your heads really are.

Say what you want about the incident in Turkey, but it is not comparable to what happened in Malaysia, other than the fact that two cars hit each other.

Additionally, the fact that you guys have to keep dragging out a singular incident from 2 years ago just to slam Vettel and myself is really, really stretching to find something to bitch and moan about.

It's not a fact, it's your opinion. You can throw out all the evidence you want, people will still disagree with you, including the likes of David Coulthard. Your head is just as far up your own ass about Vettle having nothing to do with that incident as you claim others are. Not trying to get personal here, just using your own language. The mistakes Vettle has made in the past simply demonstrate that he is not the perfect driver you're trying to make him out to be in this particular case. He's made some pretty big mistakes in the past, as any young driver would.

My opinion is that NK did the best he could to let Vettle by while also trying to keep his car on the track. Not an easy task, especially with the expectation by some that backmarkers basically have to pull over and stop to let them by. Give the guy a break, he's driving a sub par car on wet track. He's allowed to compete for his own position just as much as Vettle is allowed to compete for his, as long as he obeys the rules which, in my opinion he did.

[nickthaskater]

Twice he didn't have the pass completed when he cut over too soon and caused himself some damage. Once he crashed and once he cut his tire. Same move. You might as well say that the incidents are not comparable cause once it was in Turkey and once in Malaysia, therefore not the same. Lol

Again you ignore the fact that he was actually racing Webber for position, and that Webber was going at a comparable rate of speed and had every reason in the world to fight for the spot. Karthikeyan was going very slowly as a result of his off (and just being in a car that's 5-seconds off the pace to begin with), was being lapped, and had been shown blue flags to make way for the leaders. Very different scenarios.

Add to that Webber and Vettel were wheel to wheel to the edge of the track, whereas Vettel left Karthikeyan a full car width to his left, which Karthikeyan ignored having decided to meander over to the racing line.

But hey, I don't expect you to understand that when you're so fixated on doing nothing but riding my ass

It's not a fact, it's your opinion. You can throw out all the evidence you want, people will still disagree with you, including the likes of David Coulthard. Your head is just as far up your own ass about Vettle having nothing to do with that incident as you claim others are. Not trying to get personal here, just using your own language. The mistakes Vettle has made in the past simply demonstrate that he is not the perfect driver you're trying to make him out to be in this particular case. He's made some pretty big mistakes in the past, as any young driver would.

My opinion is that NK did the best he could to let Vettle by while also trying to keep his car on the track. Not an easy task, especially with the expectation by some that backmarkers basically have to pull over and stop to let them by. Give the guy a break, he's driving a sub par car on wet track. He's allowed to compete for his own position just as much as Vettle is allowed to compete for his, as long as he obeys the rules which, in my opinion he did.

My "own language" was in response to someone telling me I had my "tongue up Vettel's ass".

I'm not making Vettel out to be a "perfect driver" by any stretch; however, this incident was not his fault.

So far as mistakes go, how is anything Vettel has done "pretty big" relative to any other driver? He's made mistakes, as virtually every other driver has done and continue to do. Hell, just look at Button and Hamilton in Montreal, and take a gander at how lengthy Button's resume is.

NK did not do his best, as I have clearly illustrated innumerable times that he had a full car-width of track available to his left that he decided not to use. At no time would he have had to go off the track for Vettel to clear him without incident.

Can he compete for his position? Sure. Was he fighting for position with Vettel? Nope.

If all you people want to do is keep going around and around in a never-ending circle jerk, restating the same tired crap time and time again, save yourself the trouble and don't bother replying. I know I won't be, save for one of you bringing something new to the table (though I'm not holding my breath).

[Baby Schu]

[Vento]

So far as mistakes go, how is anything Vettel has done "pretty big" relative to any other driver? He's made mistakes, as virtually every other driver has done and continue to do. Hell, just look at Button and Hamilton in Montreal, and take a gander at how lengthy Button's resume is.

I wasn't comparing him to other drivers. Simply saying that he has made mistakes before and, in my opinion, made a mistake again here. I should have said earlier, I don't think NK is 100% faultless, but as he said himself, he had to "jink" his car to keep it off the marbles and wet rumble strip or he would have gone off. Vettle *should* have known this and gave him more room. He passed NK like he didn't belong there and paid the price for it. Would NK have been fine if he went onto the marbles? Who knows... all we know is that he didn't think so at the time otherwise he would have done it and not risked taking himself out and ruining his million dollar car that his team can barely afford to run.

NK did not do his best, as I have clearly illustrated innumerable times that he had a full car-width of track available to his left that he decided not to use. At no time would he have had to go off the track for Vettel to clear him without incident.

You sure about that? That's a pretty big assumption for someone who's never driven an F1 car on a damp track with it's sides covered in almost a full races' worth of marbles.

Can he compete for his position? Sure. Was he fighting for position with Vettel? Nope.

Yes... you are correct.

If all you people want to do is keep going around and around in a never-ending circle jerk, restating the same tired crap time and time again, save yourself the trouble and don't bother replying. I know I won't be, save for one of you bringing something new to the table (though I'm not holding my breath).

You need to bring something new to the table as well my friend...

[nickthaskater]

You sure about that? That's a pretty big assumption for someone who's never driven an F1 car on a damp track with it's sides covered in almost a full races' worth of marbles.

There were no marbles on the edge of the track where they touched; the preceding drivers had no issues running along the curb, where NK should have been.

Here are the two preceding cars, running against, and in the case of the Marussia, on the curbing, with absolutely no trouble. They also stay over there far longer than NK did, again, with no trouble.







Here's NK moving over much sooner than the other cars did, and subsequently making contact with Vettel




And for those spouting that NK was moving back to the racing line, where do you think Vettel was? Also note how there are no marbles to be seen (the marbles are on the perimeter of the corner, not on the corner exit)



Since the other video was taken down by FOM, feel free to watch this one, and again, take a look at NK's move toward the right at 1:02

[kfzmeister]

Again you ignore the fact that he was actually racing Webber for position, and that Webber was going at a comparable rate of speed and had every reason in the world to fight for the spot. Karthikeyan was going very slowly as a result of his off (and just being in a car that's 5-seconds off the pace to begin with), was being lapped, and had been shown blue flags to make way for the leaders. Very different scenarios.

Add to that Webber and Vettel were wheel to wheel to the edge of the track, whereas Vettel left Karthikeyan a full car width to his left, which Karthikeyan ignored having decided to meander over to the racing line.

I'm saying that Vettel either a) is so arrogant that he pulled in front of Webber and Nahrain (regardless of whether fighting for position or not) as to "show 'em who's more dominant", or b) Vettel has issues with judging the distance between the back of his car and the front wing of the passed car.
Either way, he hurts himself. He can keep it up for all i care. They've called him the Crashkid before.

[nickthaskater]

I'm saying that Vettel either a) is so arrogant that he pulled in front of Webber and Nahrain (regardless of whether fighting for position or not) as to "show 'em who's more dominant", or b) Vettel has issues with judging the distance between the back of his car and the front wing of the passed car.
Either way, he hurts himself. He can keep it up for all i care. They've called him the Crashkid before.

Vettel has issues judging the distance of a car behind him (that happens to be inexplicably drifting toward him)? Right...

And yes, he's been called the crash kid, but you know who else has crashed an awful lot..? Hamilton is more deserving of that particular crown than Vettel by far.

Let's not forget this gem (while we're digging up skeletons from the closet):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnCsG0DlXkU

[kfzmeister]

Look at the width of that track. The racing line is drying and off the racing line is damp/ wet.
Remember that Nahrain just went off slightly on the damp part of the track, had spinning wheels and is trying to come back onto the racing line as Vettel comes hammering around the same corner. Look at the part of the Video from that same angle and you can see Vettel coming into turn 8 too fast. This picture clearly shows Vettel coming over too soon.

...Vettel was running fourth when he sliced his left rear tyre on the HRT’s front wing as he moved back onto the racing line after lapping it.

Vettel made the same rash move when he hit the front of Webber's car in Turkey, racing for position or not. If the passed car is not cleared, then you risk damaging/ crashing your car. Point proven in both instances. What part of this do you still not understand?

[Baby Schu]

yay! skeletonzzzzz

[nickthaskater]

Look at the width of that track. The racing line is drying and off the racing line is damp/ wet.
Remember that Nahrain just went off slightly on the damp part of the track, had spinning wheels and is trying to come back onto the racing line as Vettel comes hammering around the same corner. Look at the part of the Video from that same angle and you can see Vettel coming into turn 8 too fast. This picture clearly shows Vettel coming over too soon.

Vettel made the same rash move when he hit the front of Webber's car in Turkey, racing for position or not. If the passed car is not cleared, then you risk damaging/ crashing your car. Point proven in both instances. What part of this do you still not understand?

Thanks for again ignoring the bulk of my post. Notice how the Marussia and Hamilton both run at length along and on the curbing with zero issues? So much for that theory of yours.

NK went off the track with plenty of time prior to Vettel getting to him. Saying that he had "spinning wheels" is nothing short of hilarious. If that was indeed the case, and he was not in control of the car due to his off-track excursion, that's all the more reason that he should have gotten completely out of the way (that would be in addition to his severe lack of pace due to going off). He was a rolling hazard even more than usual, and that would only be exaggerated by your claim which would do nothing but serve my point.

I'm not sure where you're getting that Vettel came in too fast; he remained on the track (unlike Karthikeyan) and was carrying on without issue up to the point of contact. Talk about pulling things out of your ass (though, unfortunately, it wasn't your head).

You haven't proven (or disproven) anything. But like I said, you're dead-set on going against me, and you're biased against Vettel to begin with, so you can believe whatever you want to believe

[kfzmeister]

Couple of things about this clip (not sure why we are looking at it in this thread):

1. What is Hamilton doing driving this thing around so far when he immediately knows that he has a broken rear suspension? IMO, that deserved a penalty. He's endangering the rest of the field on that tight circuit. Then he gets out and stupidly checks his suspension like he didn't know.

2. Right at the beginning of the video, you can see the cars ahead of Button are on the same racing line as Button appears to follow when Hamilton tries to squeeze by, so why is this called "Button hits Hamilton?

[nickthaskater]

yay! skeletonzzzzz

Apparently Alonso can't judge the distance to the wing of a car behind him, either. Vettel's in pretty good company

[kfzmeister]

Apparently Alonso can't judge the distance to the wing of a car behind him, either. Vettel's in pretty good company

Lmao. Look at the width of both tracks. Vettel is incapable of passing a car on a track that is 6 cars wide. Alonso is tapped by Button who runs wide into a turn that barely clears two cars!

You're a smart guy alright.

[nickthaskater]

Lmao. Look at the width of both tracks. Vettel is incapable of passing a car on a track that has 6 car widths. Alonso is tapped by Button who runs wide into a turn that barely clears two cars!

You're a smart guy alright.

You said all that needs to be said about your intelligence when you stated that Hamilton hit Button in Montreal.

Enjoy your hat

[kfzmeister]

Thanks for again ignoring the bulk of my post. Notice how the Marussia and Hamilton both run at length along and on the curbing with zero issues? So much for that theory of yours.

They didn't go off/ wide in turn 8, if memory serves me right? Of course they held a better line.

NK went off the track with plenty of time prior to Vettel getting to him.

Nahrain goes wide and Vettel is entering same turn (with a car that goes 5 seconds faster per lap? Lol

Saying that he had "spinning wheels" is nothing short of hilarious.

Really? Slicks on damp/ wet surface? Lol, where do you come up with this??

If that was indeed the case, and he was not in control of the car due to his off-track excursion, that's all the more reason that he should have gotten completely out of the way (that would be in addition to his severe lack of pace due to going off). He was a rolling hazard even more than usual,

Of course you know how easy that is to do in race conditions going into a turn in those conditions. Lol.

....and that would only be exaggerated by your claim which would do nothing but serve my point.

I'm not sure where you're getting that Vettel came in too fast;

You can clearly see it on the video. He seriously reduces his speed (probably sees Nahrain in the middle of that turn going off and realizes that he has to hug the inside of that turn.) Only smart move here.

...he remained on the track (unlike Karthikeyan) and was carrying on without issue up to the point of contact.

...where he pulls that boneheaded move and slices his tire. Lol.

[kfzmeister]

You said all that needs to be said about your intelligence when you stated that Hamilton hit Button in Montreal.

Enjoy your hat

That's the best you have? Lol.
I think i have just defeated you.

[Baby Schu]

Hold on.....

In Canada last year it was hamilton's fault?

But in Malaysia Vettel is at fault?




I sense some Button bum buddyness here.....

[kfzmeister]

I sense some Button bum buddyness here.....

Lol, you haven't been around here long enough to know me.

[nickthaskater]

That's the best you have? Lol.
I think i have just defeated you.

You defeated yourself when you claimed that Button was in the right yet Vettel was in the wrong.

[Mk1Racer]

You need to bring something new to the table as well my friend...

Pretty funny that there are half a dozen posts by him after that, in a little over an hour.

[nickthaskater]

Pretty funny that there are half a dozen posts by him after that, in a little over an hour.

What's funny is your obsession with me despite you "ignoring" me.

[Vento]

There were no marbles on the edge of the track where they touched; the preceding drivers had no issues running along the curb, where NK should have been.

Here are the two preceding cars, running against, and in the case of the Marussia, on the curbing, with absolutely no trouble. They also stay over there far longer than NK did, again, with no trouble.







Here's NK moving over much sooner than the other cars did, and subsequently making contact with Vettel

I highly doubt that there weren't any marbles on the track. I think it's a given that a track has a clean racing line and dirty sides, particularly around corners, and particularly towards the end of a race. Add a bit of moisture and it makes things even more slippery. I'm saying this because it gives credibility to Narayan's statement that he would have gone off had he given Vettle more room.

The Marussia is driving all by his lonesome self, not being pushed to the side by an incoming driver. It's a different situation than negotiating a corner while being lapped and trying to stay on the track at the same time.

The only point I'm trying to make is that this is a racing incident and not a collision caused solely by NK. Vettle steamed into that corner and effectively pushed NK to the dirty outside. Look at the video again and watch Vettle. It was an aggressive move on his part and he paid for it.

[8v_gti777]

I have to say the bonehead of the race award goes to Button. He could easily have won that race, yet decided to plow into the HRT as if it didn't exist. I'm sure that crash upset the balance somehow and Button never could get the car to work well again.

Runner up bonehead must be Vettel for yet another "Turkey 2010" move on the same HRT. Had he not moved so arrogantly over on Nahrain, he might have podium-ed here.

I agree, Button's my favorite driver and he threw away a bunch of points there. It was so careless.

[nickthaskater]

The only point I'm trying to make is that this is a racing incident and not a collision caused solely by NK. Vettle steamed into that corner and effectively pushed NK to the dirty outside. Look at the video again and watch Vettle. It was an aggressive move on his part and he paid for it.

I'm sure Vettel was totally planning for Karthikeyan to run off-track mid-corner and lose whatever little speed he may have been carrying so as to close on him quicker than he otherwise would have. Had NK kept his car on the track through the corner, it wouldn't have looked aggressive at all considering they would have been more evenly matched in pace, but Vettel's speed was exaggerated by Karthikeyan losing his beans just before Vettel caught him.

Vettel did no "pushing" of any sort, considering Karthikeyan didn't go anywhere near as far out on the exit of the corner as Hamilton and the Marussia. Had Karthikeyan gotten up onto the curbing on the exit as the Marussia did, you may have a point, but he never touched the curb.

Also, Vettel

[Tim@VMG]

That's the end of this thread, folks. I asked nicely before for a cessation of the interpersonal insults.

People in this forum need to start acting in a more civil manner toward each other, or they may find themselves not posting in it any more.

Thanks.

-Tim