Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Results 1 to 13 of 13

    Thread: 020 clutch not releasing. pushrod issue?

    1. Member Jardman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 9th, 2006
      Location
      Vancouver British Columbia
      Posts
      561
      Vehicles
      1978 Rabbit 2.0 T +1990 Jeep Cherokee 4.0
      03-26-2012 11:39 PM #1
      Okay so, heres the deal:
      I've got an 020 with an ACT heavy duty six puck clutch kit installed and a peloquin lsd. The Car has been sitting in storage for the past few months and now the clutch seems to be stuck. When I try to put the car into gear (while running) it will not go into gear. I tried to start the car in first gear and it lurches forward and will not start however if i try to start it in fifth gear, it will start ( barely) and run, and the clutch will pull the car forward if i slowly release the pedal.

      -I have looked at the finger (checked out okay)
      -The throwout bearing is good and spins freely
      -clutch pedal feels normal

      Today, I decided the issue must be something with the clutch/pressure plate so I decided to pull the transmission and have a look, make sure everything is okay inside, to my surprise, everything looked okay, accept i noticed that the end of the pushrod that contacts the thrust plate seems to be very worn and quite "flat". I believe it should be rounded and "bullet" shaped.

      More or less my question here is, could the "flat" end of the pushrod be causing all of my issues with my clutch or should I be looking for something else in the clutch/pressure plate assembly.... is it possible for the pushrod to be worn so badly on the end that it will not allow the clutch to function correctly?

      I know that I could have changed the pushrod without pulling the transmission, however after talking with many people, most had suggested the clutch was faulty, so I decided to pull it and have a look.... Only took me about 30 minutes to get it all apart so it wasn't too bad.

      HELPPPPPPPP MEHHHHHH!

    2. Member Jardman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 9th, 2006
      Location
      Vancouver British Columbia
      Posts
      561
      Vehicles
      1978 Rabbit 2.0 T +1990 Jeep Cherokee 4.0
      03-27-2012 11:19 PM #2
      Today, I went to pickup a new pushrod, finger, TO bearing, end cap, and thrust plate.

      I compared the old rod to the new one and the older one seems to be squished flat on the thrust plate end and about 1.5-2 mm shorter than the new one.

      Could that alone be causing my clutch issues?

    3. Member Broke's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2001
      Location
      Columbus, Ohio
      Posts
      14,931
      Vehicles
      86 GTI 2.0L, 88 Scirocco 16V, 2010 F150 STX
      03-28-2012 06:36 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      Okay so, heres the deal:
      I've got an 020 with an ACT heavy duty six puck clutch kit installed and a peloquin lsd. The Car has been sitting in storage for the past few months and now the clutch seems to be stuck. When I try to put the car into gear (while running) it will not go into gear.
      Did it work previously with those parts?
      If so, they might just be stuck together.
      Hold the clutch pedal down, start it in 1st, get rolling and with the clutch pedal still depressed, nail it in 1st, then dump off the throttle, then nail it again... it'll break free.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      I tried to start the car in first gear and it lurches forward and will not start
      It'll start, add throttle... it's starting and being stalled so add throttle and it'll take off. It might bust the clutch free at that point, if not, stab the throttle a few times until it does.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      More or less my question here is, could the "flat" end of the pushrod be causing all of my issues with my clutch or should I be looking for something else in the clutch/pressure plate assembly....
      Something else. The worn pushrod will just alter the position of the release arm and pedal, it won't prevent the clutch from disengaging.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      I know that I could have changed the pushrod without pulling the transmission, however after talking with many people, most had suggested the clutch was faulty, so I decided to pull it and have a look.... Only took me about 30 minutes to get it all apart so it wasn't too bad.
      If it is still apart, loosen the 9 flywheel bolts and see if the clutch friction disc can move between the FW and PP once the bolts are loose. If not, remove the FW and see if the clutch is stuck to either the FW or PP, or both.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      I compared the old rod to the new one and the older one seems to be squished flat on the thrust plate end and about 1.5-2 mm shorter than the new one.

      Could that alone be causing my clutch issues?
      The old one sounds worn, and it is good you replaced it and the thrust plate, but it won't be the cause of the problems... if the pushrod were too short, you wouldn't have a normal feeling pedal as you wouldn't feel the PP being collapsed.

      Check the new pushrod in the trans shaft for play up/down or side/side, indicating a worn pushrod bushing behind the pushrod seal. Push the pushrod in so the other end is supported by the TO bearing then wiggle the clutch end and see if it moves in the input shaft. If so, replace the bushing and seal for the pushrod.
      020 trans info pages - www.BrokeVW.com
      NEW 0.7619 5th gears for the 020
      NEW 020 reverse gears
      '86 GTI 8V 2.0L -'88 Scirocco 16V - '10 F150 4x4

    4. Member Jardman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 9th, 2006
      Location
      Vancouver British Columbia
      Posts
      561
      Vehicles
      1978 Rabbit 2.0 T +1990 Jeep Cherokee 4.0
      03-28-2012 11:52 PM #4
      Wow, thanks broke! you are just the man I was hoping would reply, I have been using your site and looking for any troubleshooting ideas lots!

      Yes, the transmission/clutch assembly had been serving me well all last year with zero issues.

      The tranny is still on the ground in my garage, I pulled the flywheel off and the clutch was not stuck to anything....

      I will be sure to have a look @ the play in the trans shaft but do you think that would cause my clutch not to function?

    5. Member Broke's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2001
      Location
      Columbus, Ohio
      Posts
      14,931
      Vehicles
      86 GTI 2.0L, 88 Scirocco 16V, 2010 F150 STX
      03-29-2012 03:09 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      Yes, the transmission/clutch assembly had been serving me well all last year with zero issues.
      Then it isn't a case of bad parts or anything like that if they were working together previously.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      The tranny is still on the ground in my garage, I pulled the flywheel off and the clutch was not stuck to anything....
      Hmmm.

      With the trans off, check the amount of pushrod exposed. Let the release arm drop fully until it is sitting on the black plastic stopper clipped to the arm. If you don't have the black plastic stopper, you'll have to hold the arm in place. Push the pushrod in, and measure how much is sticking out past the input shaft. With the arm dropped, it should be 0-4mm exposed.

      Lift the arm fully until it stops, up to about 10:00... there should be 24mm of pushrod exposed.

      If those 2 measurements check out, then the trans and internal parts are OK.

      Honestly, they should be if everything worked last year.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      I will be sure to have a look @ the play in the trans shaft but do you think that would cause my clutch not to function?
      No, just something to check since you have the trans off and are replacing parts like the finger, pushrod, etc... but it won't cause your problem.

      I really am not sure at this point... it all worked last year, then didn't, and nothing was changed except it sat and wasn't used.
      I really thought the clutch might be hanging up, especially since the pedal felt normal.... if the pressure plate wasn't being collapsed you'd notice the light feeling in the pedal, and the pedal might stick to the floorboard without a pressure plate to shove back on it.

      Here is the list of things I can think of to cause the clutch to grab fully (lurching in 1st when started) but not disengage...

      The pedal isn't pulling the cable up. Check that the cable adjustment is correct, and when you depress the pedal the cable is pulling the release arm from about 9:00 to 10:00 or so.

      The finger has cracked and slipped on the splined release arm shaft. You've replaced it... as long as it only goes on one way, that's all there is to that.

      The bearing is missing or damaged. You've replaced that, so there isn't a lot there to look into.

      The pushrod is missing or very short or damaged.... again, you replaced it and even when worn, it won't stop the clutch from disengaging.

      If the 0-4mm and 24mm measurements check out, the finger, bearing, and pushrod are all where they should be.

      That pretty much leaves the clutch parts themselves, but if you know they work together, and you have had them apart and inspected them recently, I'm not sure what could be going on.

      No broken PP spring fingers, no broken clutch hub damper springs, no broken strap or rivet on the PP, new thrust plate clipped to the pressure plate.... no rust on the PP spring fingers... lube the backside of the new thrust plate where the spring fingers hit it, and lube the front where the pushrod hits it. Lube the clutch hub splines and the input shaft splines.

      Something in that list above has to be it. Nothing else affects the clutch to cause it to fail to disengage.
      020 trans info pages - www.BrokeVW.com
      NEW 0.7619 5th gears for the 020
      NEW 020 reverse gears
      '86 GTI 8V 2.0L -'88 Scirocco 16V - '10 F150 4x4

    6. Member Jardman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 9th, 2006
      Location
      Vancouver British Columbia
      Posts
      561
      Vehicles
      1978 Rabbit 2.0 T +1990 Jeep Cherokee 4.0
      03-31-2012 12:05 AM #6


      Alright, This is just ridiculous at this point. Today I decided to put the trans back in and I made sure to take everything that broke had mentioned.

      Same issue still persists....... Im so freakin' lost, is there something I am missing? Is the pressure plate faulty somehow?


    7. Member InSaneV's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 24th, 2009
      Location
      Calgary, AB.
      Posts
      286
      Vehicles
      84 Jetta coupe 2.0slow 79 Rabbit 16VG60
      03-31-2012 12:37 AM #7
      Just things I would check cause I have no clue either......is the clutch cable ok? check the part where it goes into the firewall too. Torqed the bolts down to there proper settings? and just a shot in the dark question....your brakes not seized are they? pop up the rear and try and spin the tires by hand then check the front with it in neutral.
      " if you owe a VW and DON'T have AAA gold...your an idiot haha " - NOTHING LEAVES STOCK -
      " Because a 16v g60 sounds like the hand of god bitch slapping your car. " -lagomorph-

    8. Member Jardman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 9th, 2006
      Location
      Vancouver British Columbia
      Posts
      561
      Vehicles
      1978 Rabbit 2.0 T +1990 Jeep Cherokee 4.0
      04-07-2012 03:52 AM #8
      broke?

    9. Member Broke's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2001
      Location
      Columbus, Ohio
      Posts
      14,931
      Vehicles
      86 GTI 2.0L, 88 Scirocco 16V, 2010 F150 STX
      04-07-2012 07:06 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Jardman View Post
      broke?
      I'm at a loss, everything checks out.
      Everything has either been replaced or checks out OK... so if the clutch still isn't disengaging, it has to be something already checked out as OK.
      There isn't a lot to the trans... if the pushrod is coming out 24mm when the arm is lifted, and the cable is lifting the arm when you depress the pedal, that's pretty much it for the trans.
      It would be down to the clutch parts at that point.
      020 trans info pages - www.BrokeVW.com
      NEW 0.7619 5th gears for the 020
      NEW 020 reverse gears
      '86 GTI 8V 2.0L -'88 Scirocco 16V - '10 F150 4x4

    10. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 23rd, 2008
      Location
      N/A
      Posts
      12,833
      Vehicles
      N/A
      04-07-2012 02:14 PM #10
      Looking at it from the outside-in (Broke works on transmissions, so he looks at problems from the inside-out), there aren't that many parts in the clutch system.

      Clutch cable (replace self-adjusting clutch cable with manually adjusted clutch cable, and adjust clutch freeplay to 1/4"-3/8").

      You say you replaced the clutch finger, throwout bearing, pushrod, and release plate.

      Sorry, but that means there's a problem with the clutch set (pressure plate or disc), and/or the flywheel (you are replacing the pressure plate bolts when you remove the pressure plate (the (6) bolts are one-time use), and you are using a torque wrench and tightneing to spec, right? It's my observation that everything works till it doesn't. It doesn't make any difference if the clutch used to work. The fact of the matter is, it's not working now, and you replaced all the other parts, so if you didn't make a mistake, then the flywheel or clutch set is at fault.

      I suggest that you replace the flywheel if you have an aftermarket (junk eurospec lightweight?) flywheel with a new Sachs flywheel ($50 from rockauto.com), and replaced the clutch set with a New Genuine Sachs Packaged clutch set (about $150, including pressure plate, clutch disc, release plate, retaining ring, clutch alignment tool, and lubricant). Beware of Parts Suppliers who do not sell Genuine Sachs packaged clutch sets. Many of the so-called Sachs Clutch Sets only include a Sachs pressure plate, and/or Sachs clutch disc, with all the other parts from no-name companies.
      Last edited by germancarnut51; 04-07-2012 at 02:17 PM.

    11. Member zwogti's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 11th, 2004
      Location
      Deerfied Beach, Florida
      Posts
      2,595
      Vehicles
      2000 vr6 gti, 2001 vr6 jetta, 96 gti vr6-T Haldex
      04-09-2012 10:44 PM #11
      I'm having the same problem with a friend's car with the same tranny.....would it be the cable adjustment? I will take a look on my friend's car in couple days to try to find out his promblem, his car also just got a new clutch kit and he can't shift it.
      2000 VR6 GTI, 2001 VR6 Jetta, 96 GTI VR6-T Haldex

    12. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 23rd, 2008
      Location
      N/A
      Posts
      12,833
      Vehicles
      N/A
      04-10-2012 01:16 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by zwogti View Post
      I'm having the same problem with a friend's car with the same tranny.....would it be the cable adjustment? I will take a look on my friend's car in couple days to try to find out his promblem, his car also just got a new clutch kit and he can't shift it.
      Not being able to engage the clutch, and not being able to shift into different gears are two different problems.

      After the clutch was replaced, were the shift linkage bushings replaced? Was the gear shift lever serviced? Was the shift linkage aligned with a shift linkage alignment tool?

      If not, I'd start there. The shift linkage needs attention when you have the transmission out, the bushings don't last forever, and trying to align the shift linkage without replacing the worn parts first, OR without the shift linkage alignment tool is a waste of time.

    13. Member Jardman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 9th, 2006
      Location
      Vancouver British Columbia
      Posts
      561
      Vehicles
      1978 Rabbit 2.0 T +1990 Jeep Cherokee 4.0
      09-08-2012 12:19 AM #13
      Okay, update.

      Replaced the pressure plate, Everything works fine.

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •