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    Thread: Official 2012 Formula 1 Off Track Discussion Thread

    1. Junior Member Vento's Avatar
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      03-27-2012 11:20 AM #1
      The intention of this thread is to discuss anything outside of racing in the Formula 1 world. Politics, gossip, technology, etc... anything goes!

      First up... apparently Mercedes is PISSED with the proposed new Concorde Agreement. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren are set to recieve some pretty generous bonuses via Bernie Jerklestone's wording in the agreement. It doesn't assign a bonus to a team by name, but it has clauses like a "Double Champions'" clause where any team with a two consecutive championships since 2008 will get a cash bonus.

      In addition, Ferrari and Red Bull could be offered seats on the board of F1's holding company!!??

      F1 has always been a bit incestuous... but if Ferrari or Red Bull are part owners of the very sport they compete in... seems like a pretty big conflict of interest to me.

    2. 03-27-2012 12:16 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Vento View Post
      The intention of this thread is to discuss anything outside of racing in the Formula 1 world. Politics, gossip, technology, etc... anything goes!

      First up... apparently Mercedes is PISSED with the proposed new Concorde Agreement. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren are set to recieve some pretty generous bonuses via Bernie Jerklestone's wording in the agreement. It doesn't assign a bonus to a team by name, but it has clauses like a "Double Champions'" clause where any team with a two consecutive championships since 2008 will get a cash bonus.

      In addition, Ferrari and Red Bull could be offered seats on the board of F1's holding company!!??

      F1 has always been a bit incestuous... but if Ferrari or Red Bull are part owners of the very sport they compete in... seems like a pretty big conflict of interest to me.
      Well, sans the F1 Industry, I'm not so inclinded to say thats odd. Question would be is it a voting membership or non voting... Voting would be a define conflict event, however none voting is just honarary. It's a good opportunity for the team non exec members to voice or have a voice in the overall ownership business model... My company has several "competitor" non execs as board members...

    3. 03-27-2012 02:51 PM #3
      nothing new, but the topic of massa and his racing as of late. i have to honestly say, i feel bad for him. nobody wants to be in those situations. we all know a racer would not be in f1 for all these years if he did not have something. true, since his accident he has been off. but i think that he does get a lot of pressure to get out of his rut, its not that he's not trying. the ferrari sucks this year and rain is not his favorite. yes fernando works magic with it but i still feel massa can compete with the rest of them, just things are not going his way as with hamilton last year...........

      perhaps if he went to another team he might come alive again. not thinking about winnings and trophies, alonso is the best driver in formula one. ferrari is his team and it must feel like crap if the team and media praise him and put you down. its frustrating.....

      heikki is a racer, perhaps most will disagree because he did not stomp on hamiltons parade at mclaren, but he was not brought on to do that. there it was hamiltons team. nobdy could stand petrov but isnt he beating out heikki consistantly and i would say that its heikkis team.

      like a roller coaster, these things go up and down............... im rambling.

    4. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
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      03-27-2012 09:33 PM #4
      I would say that Massa's incident did some real harm as far as motor skills and mental faculties; that was the defining moment where his career started going backward, and I don't believe that to be a coincidence.

      It wouldn't be the first time where a serious injury was career ending, in spite of how badly the athlete wants to continue to fight. Massa hasn't lost the drive by any means, but it would seem that his body and brain just can't perform to the level they did at one point.

      It really is a shame; he was just tipping into the high water mark of his career before the incident.

      It would be nice to see him gracefully bow out of his race seat and into a sort of ambassadorial or testing role within Ferrari, as he truly seems to bleed rosso corsa.

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      03-27-2012 10:54 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by nickthaskater View Post
      I would say that Massa's incident did some real harm as far as motor skills and mental faculties; that was the defining moment where his career started going backward, and I don't believe that to be a coincidence.

      It wouldn't be the first time where a serious injury was career ending, in spite of how badly the athlete wants to continue to fight. Massa hasn't lost the drive by any means, but it would seem that his body and brain just can't perform to the level they did at one point.

      It really is a shame; he was just tipping into the high water mark of his career before the incident.

      It would be nice to see him gracefully bow out of his race seat and into a sort of ambassadorial or testing role within Ferrari, as he truly seems to bleed rosso corsa.
      Of course people will claim his accident as the point where he changed.
      Really though having a crappy car is what is hurting him. The fact that Alonso has established himself as the Alpha driver and has the ability to make the car look better has surely caused
      some psychological damage.
      It would also have been nice to see Barrichello get a farewell, but we saw what happened there, too.
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    6. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
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      03-27-2012 11:26 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      Of course people will claim his accident as the point where he changed.
      Really though having a crappy car is what is hurting him. The fact that Alonso has established himself as the Alpha driver and has the ability to make the car look better has surely caused
      some psychological damage.
      It would also have been nice to see Barrichello get a farewell, but we saw what happened there, too.
      ... Barrichello chose to go to Honda/Brawn to have a shot at being "top-dog". Felipe would never choose to go anywhere else; his entire career has been aimed squarely at getting into a Ferrari.

    7. Member wiredvw's Avatar
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      03-27-2012 11:31 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      Of course people will claim his accident as the point where he changed.
      Really though having a crappy car is what is hurting him. The fact that Alonso has established himself as the Alpha driver and has the ability to make the car look better has surely caused
      some psychological damage.
      It would also have been nice to see Barrichello get a farewell, but we saw what happened there, too.
      Keep in mind that Schumi really took Massa under his wing and helped him develop as a driver while at Ferrari. I can bet that Alonso isn't quite as open to helping him and Massa is finding it hard to find his way. He certainly has many supporters at Ferrari, but that can only take you so far. I don't think he cares that Alonso is the #1 driver, he cares that he can't get the car to work for him. No confidence means going slow.

      The real interesting part is Mercedes creating such a stink over the new concorde agreement. If the details are true, I find it surprising that Bernie and FOM would snub Mercedes like that in favor of such a new team like Red Bull. Yes, Red Bull have money to burn, but Mercedes has spent a pretty penny with F1 too. Perhaps DM at Red Bull are willing to put money in to help back some races, like the prospect of a race in Thailand, and that has Bernie smiling. Get the teams owners to back the races rather than deal with pesky governments.

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      03-27-2012 11:33 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by nickthaskater View Post
      ... Barrichello chose to go to Honda/Brawn to have a shot at being "top-dog". Felipe would never choose to go anywhere else; his entire career has been aimed squarely at getting into a Ferrari.
      Barrichello chose to switch to Honda about as much as Felipe will choose to switch to Sauber!
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    9. Member rrr rr's Avatar
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      03-28-2012 09:05 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by rscshakespeare View Post
      nobdy could stand petrov but isnt he beating out heikki consistantly and i would say that its heikkis team.
      Um...there have been two races. Heikki out-qualified Vitaly in both, and finished ahead of him in one. I would not say that equates to Vitaly consistently beating out Heikki. This is one of my pet peeves: people stating some "fact" based on gut feeling when it would take 30 seconds to look it up.
      PSN: gospracrgo

    10. 03-28-2012 09:49 AM #10
      rrr rr, you are correct. i should have looked it up instead of running my mouth first. no excuses. i was not trying to start any rumors. for some reason i thought that vitaly did better in the 2 races we had so far. i was not reading and looking it up. maybe it is the fact that i would like to see heikki move on up as he seems well liked by all the teams.

    11. Junior Member Vento's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 01:06 PM #11
      Here's a detailed view of F1's financial history and future... I have to admit, I'm still confused about who owns what...

      http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/74865.html

    12. Member wiredvw's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 08:59 AM #12
      And that's the way Bernie wants it.

    13. Member kptaylor's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 04:53 PM #13
      Not exactly sure Mercedes has a right to be upset over the deals Ferrari, McLaren and RBR have received. This is only their second year fielding a team (in the modern era), with no real success yet. The other three are the top teams, so they should receive more money or better deals as they are the ones drawing the fans in. No different than other sports events and how teams are paid.

    14. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 02:08 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by kptaylor View Post
      Not exactly sure Mercedes has a right to be upset over the deals Ferrari, McLaren and RBR have received. This is only their second year fielding a team (in the modern era), with no real success yet. The other three are the top teams, so they should receive more money or better deals as they are the ones drawing the fans in. No different than other sports events and how teams are paid.
      Mercedes kind of has a point in that they've been a major engine supplier for many a year, and have powered some very successful cars and drivers to victories and championships. Without Mercedes, the sport would be very different.

    15. Junior Member Vento's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 09:59 AM #15
      Some drama from Team Lotus... err... Group Lotus... or whatever they're called.

      This is the full release sent out by Group Lotus on the Wednesday before the Chinese Grand Prix.

      Never let the facts get in the way of a good story....

      Take a little look at what we found online. Don't you think it's funny? We do. We had a good old giggle. After all, we love a bit of self irony, just as well really. Although it's funny, this one's not accurate but then again, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? The inconvenient truth is - surprise, surprise - we have never said that there are no problems at Lotus.

      So whilst lots of people obviously feel the need to comment on Lotus' current situation in the absence of proper facts or evidence, we can't ignore these particular mistruths any longer even if we would like to, so we have decided to turn a negative into a positive and use this hilarious piece of 'art' to set the record straight regarding the status quo at Group Lotus and try to return a little stability to a fast changing situation.

      False rumour #1: Dany Bahar is no longer CEO of Group Lotus.
      Fact: Rubbish - Dany Bahar still is.

      False rumour #2: Dato' Sri Syed is no longer Managing Director of Proton.
      Fact: Again rubbish. He still is.

      You can thank good old Tony Fernandes for these two. Don't take everything he tweets too seriously – perhaps he's still frustrated about owning Caterham instead of Lotus and the fact that he fights HRT and Marussia instead of Mercedes and Ferrari in F1.

      And whilst we're on the subject of jokes - do you know the latest F1 joke? Mike Gascoyne, Caterham Group's Chief Technical Officer, has gone missing. Why? He's looking for the 30 to 40 points he predicted for the last F1 season. Funny.

      Speaking of F1: It seems that one special so called 'independent' source is at the root of the lion's share of damaging rumours and misleading stories. The delightful Joe Saward which leads us nicely to....

      False rumour #3: Joe Saward is JUST an independent journalist.
      Fact: He is an active Director for the Caterham Group.

      And unlike some, we don't want to get too personal, so we'll leave it to you to judge how 'independent' his stories about Lotus are.

      False rumour #4: Group Lotus is no longer involved in F1.
      Fact: Lotus F1 Team and Group Lotus have reshaped their commercial relationship earlier this year. The new governance agreement signifies the continued commitment of Group Lotus to the team and the sport.

      Group Lotus' branding and marketing rights and subsequent activities remain unaffected by the new agreement until at least 2017. Alongside continued branding and title partnership status, Group Lotus is also the exclusive master licensee for all Lotus F1 Team merchandise.

      The new agreement was reached following Group Lotus owners Proton providing team owners Genii with a £30m loan which is repayable within three years. In order to secure the loan Genii used 100% of the F1 team's assets as collateral meaning that under the conditions of the loan agreement Proton have been given full title guarantee to all plant, machinery, show cars, computers, office and the Lotus F1 Team headquarters.

      In addition Proton retains the rights to purchase 10% of the F1 team. Another 10% share option will be activated if the team default on their loan obligations with Proton.

      Again we leave it to your judgement how 'bad' Lotus' current situation in F1 is. And speaking of bad situations.....

      False rumour #5: Group Lotus is going into administration.
      Fact: Rubbish. The takeover of our parent company Proton by DRB-HICOM couldn't have come at a worse time, but up until that point Proton was (and still remains) fully committed to our five year business plan to create jobs and to expand the factory and business. With the takeover process the funding has been restricted and DRB-HICOM is taking time to understand what to do with the business. DRB-HICOM is currently in the middle of due diligence of Group Lotus and there have been and continue to be positive discussions between Group Lotus senior management and senior management at DRB-HICOM both here in Hethel and in Malaysia. At no point has DRB-HICOM indicated to Group Lotus that it intends to put the company into administration. The over-active rumour mill is seriously damaging our business reputation, image and credibility but it is what it is.

      The simple fact is, and we haven't denied this - Lotus is going through a very difficult phase at the moment but we are showing true fighting spirit every day in trying to keep this vision alive. This is also a fact – no matter what people outside of Lotus may say or tweet or blog.

      Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98706

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