cant decide if I want the TDI or the I5

[segeln4me]

One thing to keep in mind is resale value. I am looking for a used Jetta right now for my daughter to drive and would love a TDI. I can't find any around here and when I do, they are around $5,000 more than the 2.5 for a 2007 or so. So all this math about insurance and higher purchase price and higher fuel costs gets put back in perspective when you sell the car later on. Jetta TDI's are a gold mine here in Utah right now, if you can find one.

So the TDI can be an investment that gets you more value later on, not that a car is a good investment. Just my .02.

[dachman1]

I have Amica, and the yearly premium is $626 for our '06 Mini, $612 for the '99 Passat, and $898 for the JSW 2.5. I was quoted $1239 for a '12 JSW TDI manual trans and sunroof; $1199 for the Passat TDI manual (sunroof is not available with manual). I was also quoted $1035 for a Tiguan S 6M.

I questioned the TDI cost and was told that "engine-related failures are not unheard of and are exceptionally expensive, and frequently not covered under warranty".

Seems difficult to say it's a TDi issue when they didn't quote you a 2012 Passat TDi vs. a 2012 Passat 2.5 or even the V6.

And I've never heard of engine failures having anything to do with car insurance costs.

[MasVW11]

One thing to keep in mind is resale value. I am looking for a used Jetta right now for my daughter to drive and would love a TDI. I can't find any around here and when I do, they are around $5,000 more than the 2.5 for a 2007 or so. So all this math about insurance and higher purchase price and higher fuel costs gets put back in perspective when you sell the car later on. Jetta TDI's are a gold mine here in Utah right now, if you can find one.

So the TDI can be an investment that gets you more value later on, not that a car is a good investment. Just my .02.

Right....cars are not investments, as it's about how much money they cost you...

Given the higher TDI mpg, a typical TDI owner drives more annual miles compared with a 2.5 owner. Many TDI posters on this forum claim 2-3k miles per month. So the TDI fleet should on average have 2-3 times more miles put on it each year than the 2.5 fleet.

Thus that rare TDI with the same miles as the 2.5 (a statistical outlier) would cost a lot more to buy used. A used car buyer probably wouldn't compare a TDI with double or triple the miles to a much lower mileage 2.5, they'd compare cars with comparable miles.

Note according to Edmunds (I couldn't find that the TDI Jetta existed between 05 and 08 MY), a 2005 Jetta GLS with 84k miles is 7,214 private party, while a 05 GLS TDI with similar trim and 168k miles is 8,968

[flynavyj]

If memory is serving me correct, the TDi jetta existed in 05.5 and 06, but was discontinued for 07-08 and started again in 09-10. There was a gap because of emissions requirements and the development of the new 2.0 TDi. The new engine also makes 40 more horsepower than the outgoing diesel, which has really been what makes it the high volume seller...previously you were trading some significant ponies for the diesel, but making up for it with torque. Now you're down 30 horsepower from the 5 cylinder, and still have gobs of hill climbing ability.

[SA-Passat]

So I just quoted a 2012 Passat SEL vs. my 2012 Passat SEL TDI. I'm 35-40, no tickets, perfect credit. The difference came to $4.72 a month. That to me seems to be the difference in the value of the insured vehicles not a disparity in risk associated with engine choice.

[dachman1]

So I just quoted a 2012 Passat SEL vs. my 2012 Passat SEL TDI. I'm 35-40, no tickets, perfect credit. The difference came to $4.72 a month. That to me seems to be the difference in the value of the insured vehicles not a disparity in risk associated with engine choice.

[salsaguy]

The TDI is a timing belt driven engine that requires replacement in 60K so the saving in fuel goes to maintain

I am in the same boat
Didnt know what to do
Brand new car esp the TDI will have issues in its 1st year

check this out for best comparison
http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?a...31585&id=31768

yes the cost diff eventually becomes a wash since the TDI will be more for maint but less for gas
I5 will be less for main but more for gas
the I5 depreciates less than the TDI as well

Also here:
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/pa...tyle=101388580

I-5 SEL Premium cost to own:
Fuel costs 5 yrs: $12,455
Maintenance Costs 5 yrs: $3,595
Repairs Cost 5 yrs: $983

TDI SEL Premium cost to own:
Fuel Costs 5 yrs : $10,020
Maintenance Costs 5 yr: $3,214
Repairs Cost 5 yrs: $1,298 <---

Also more stations carry regular over diesel

also the diesel is a heavier car than the I5 meaning worse gas mileage to carry more weight and slower as well

I think I will go for the I5
Still better than my previous B5.5 which took premium gas only

Wish they made a CC with 2012 looks and 2013 5 seats and xenon lights but TDI engine instead of premium gas guzzler

[darrelld]

So I just quoted a 2012 Passat SEL vs. my 2012 Passat SEL TDI. I'm 35-40, no tickets, perfect credit. The difference came to $4.72 a month. That to me seems to be the difference in the value of the insured vehicles not a disparity in risk associated with engine choice.

Problem with the TDI SEL right now is availability. The TDI SEL is in high demand so you probably can't negotiate any deals like the 2.5.

http://askavwsalesguy.com/blog/2012/...o-improve.html

For me the TDI is the only reason I bought a VW.

[But Officer....]

I thought about trading my '10 JSW 2.5 manual for a TDI anticipating high fuel costs. Today I filled up our Mini (which gets 33 in suburban driving and 38 highway at 75-80 mph on premium gasoline ) and did the above calculation based on what I've seen with my 2.5 vs 40 mpg overall with a new TDI (giving the TDI the benefit of the doubt at 40mpg). The 2.5 gets 28 mpg in suburban driving and 32-34 on the highway on 87 octane. I used a pessimistically low figure of 28 in the calculation.

11,000 miles divided by 28 mpg = 393 gal of 87 octane x $4.419 = $1630 annually.

11,000 miles divided by 40 mpg = 275 gal of diesel fuel x $4.989 = $1372 annually

the TDI will use 118 gallons less
the TDI will cost $ 258 less for fuel

$258 won't cover the difference in insurance cost between my 2.5 and either a Passat or JSW TDI.
118 gallons of diesel will get the average 18 wheeler about 20 miles down the road.

I read recently a Union of Concerned Scientists paper that states diesel MPG ratings should be downgraded (perhaps 20%) since it takes 25% more oil to produce a gallon of low-sulphur diesel than it does a gallon of gasoline. If this is true, the 118 gallons saved above becomes 94 gallons conserved in terms of oil dependence.

Now I don't feel badly about keeping my 2.5 gas wagon. I do feel an urgency to move from Connecticut. Fuel prices (our taxes are insane) aren't the only thing that's nuts here.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documen...emma_exsum.pdf

I agree that CT is bad in many ways, but the full cost to operate an automobile varies quite a bit from state to state. Fuel cost are high in CT say, compared to Mass, but then insurance is much cheaper in CT (Mass ins. costs are some of the highest in the nation)(thank you no-fault and the elimination of high-risk pools)(oooh.... the poor babies.... just cause they don't know how to drive doesn't mean they should pay more for insurance....).

The scientists may have a point (oh, and the organization is well known to be extremely left leaning, and since you can manipulate numbers to prove virtually any point you want to make.... well.... we should all perhaps draw our own conclusions)(which also applies to this whole silly mileage argument in progress here by the way), and it may be that diesel is more expensive to refine, but not only would that change with more capacity, you also can't tell me that the extra 20% needed to refine diesel isn't used in some other capacity. I'm quite sure nothing goes to waste.

It would seem that the bottom line is that the diesel may cost more upfront, but the more you drive, the more you save. And you'll recoup much of the higher initial cost in resale. We have always lived in a bubble of low fuel costs here (the US). That's changing slightly, in large part due to the government's reluctance to allow exploration and to embrace new technology, plus some overly aggressive environmental concerns (thanks again in large part to the empty suit in the White House and his elitist cronies). There's a reason why 50% of the market in Europe (for instance) is diesel. We'll never see anything like that here, but I do think we'll see the market grow with the availability of more diesel powered cars.

[danyanda]

I questioned the TDI cost and was told that "engine-related failures are not unheard of and are exceptionally expensive, and frequently not covered under warranty".

Since when does insurance cover "engine related failures"? I think I would find someone else to talk to about insurance as whoever told you that not only lied to you but also disrespected your intelligence by using such a poor and easily refuted lie.

Or you could just send the lady with the Xterra to get insurance from them.

[av_audi]

I think a common misconception with people used to driving gas engines is that the diesels have less throttle response translated as power. Yeah, the gas engines might be quicker off the line at the stop light. But a perfect example where I noticed a ton of power yesterday was at 40 or so, I needed to role on the power getting on to the freeway and then move to the fast lane and past a slow car (up hill). I have no doubt that the diesel felt and actually was much better than our Volvo S60 and our old Jetta (gasser) in that type situation. Role on power is very strong... and that's exactly the type power you actually use frequently.

Put four adults in a diesel and they'll walk away from the I-5 when rolling on the power to pass or go up hill. They just don't bog down. It's all about torque.

Throttle response off the line is not the true measure of power, but it's often how people judge when test driving. (not saying that you do in particular)

A TDi's power is sublte and realized over time.

Also, the 2012 Passat TDi belt interval is 130K. So that issue needs to be put to rest.

Yeah ...

[av_audi]

To the OP, if you can, wait to find out whether the 2013 will offer the 1.8T engine. That will give you the best overall performance and efficiency. Btwy, for the TDI, don't forget the cost of servicing the DSG (and the super cost if it craps out on you).

[gcodori]

If it makes you feel better...210,000 miles on a new beetle tdi. Consistent 40.5 mpg with auto. Switched to the 100,000 timing belt (they fit on the old tdi). $300.00 every 100,000 is a bargain.

Regarding the tranny service thing people keep bringing up...you can tell they don't drive one. The fill port for it can be accessed by removing the battery. Can do it yourself quick and cheaply.

You'll love how a tdi drives. Lots of torque.


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[fazzster]

Can you wait for the 1.4 Turbo which wil replace the 2.5? I believe it will be the base engine for 2013 models.

[cnnpress]

Can you wait for the 1.4 Turbo which wil replace the 2.5? I believe it will be the base engine for 2013 models.

fazzster, unfortunately, you won't see 1.4 Turbo on 2013 Passat. It has confirmed that 2.5 will go on in 13 Passat.

[av_audi]

Regarding the tranny service thing people keep bringing up...you can tell they don't drive one. The fill port for it can be accessed by removing the battery. Can do it yourself quick and cheaply.

The "tranny thing" is for the DSG.

[salsaguy]

This is very true, the TDI SEL is almost impossible to find unless you special order.

I ended up getting my 2012 Passat SEL Premium 2.5L this past Sunday. Very happy
I used the AAA Auto Club car buying option to get the best deal / no haggle (same as CostCo Member deal)

Problem with the TDI SEL right now is availability. The TDI SEL is in
high demand so you probably can't negotiate any deals like the 2.5.

http://askavwsalesguy.com/blog/2012/...o-improve.html

For me the TDI is the only reason I bought a VW.

[gcodori]

The tranny I posted about IS the dsg.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[VW_JW]

It looks like the TDI SELs are starting to ship. I just got word that mine has shipped.....hope to be driving it within the next couple of weeks.

This is very true, the TDI SEL is almost impossible to find unless you special order.

I ended up getting my 2012 Passat SEL Premium 2.5L this past Sunday. Very happy
I used the AAA Auto Club car buying option to get the best deal / no haggle (same as CostCo Member deal)