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    Thread: Golf full rear clip replacement

    1. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 01:34 AM #1
      So a few weeks ago, I was out of town and some @sshole rear-ended PBJTIME (the mk2 i share with MrMook), smashing the entire rear end, trashing the bumper, breaking a tail lamp, and pushing in the hatch.

      Over the next week or so I'm going to be removing the damaged panel and replacing it, so I thought I'd start a thread (as MrMook and I have done a really crappy job of putting together a single, consolidated build thread for this car since we bought it from Mash back in October 2011)

      All of the parts needed to replace the rear end are now in the garage (though I'm not picking up brand new 120lb argon/co2 tank till the morning)... GT-Ian provided a gti hatch. and concept1 shipped us what might be the last replacement panel in north america.

      So it's about time we begin fixing this mess.

      Firstly, we are still in need of a rear bumper, so if you're in the tristate area and have one, hit me up.

      Secondly, this is why we call the car PBJTIME...



      The damage




      The new panel


      I can't say I know what that hole in the panel behind the bumper is for, maybe for running a tow harness? I guess I'm going to have to fill it.

      First steps are going to be to move a ton of things around in the garage, order some 2k primer, some urethane accelerator (so we don't need to wait 2 days for the primer to dry/cure), some filler (still doing research as to what i should buy), a can or two of guidecoat, and then a few cans of LA5T basecoat, clear and clearcoat melter. I also have bodywork to do on my three other cars, so whatever i learn while doing this is also going to get applied to my mk1, the mk4 that used to be my daily, and the audi 5k that's my current daily.

      I'm not a body guy, so stay tuned, this is going to be an adventure.
      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

    2. Member jetta coupe's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 08:08 AM #2
      Glad to see your fixing that. I've seen people junk them with less damage than that. Once you tear into it, its not that bad.

    3. Member prasina2's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 08:19 AM #3
      What vendor did the replacement panel come from? I noticed the one available from Klokkerholm doesn't have the frame for the lights. Thanks
      ~ Sapere aude ~

    4. Senior Member Mr. Knappy's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 09:16 AM #4
      I just don't understand why somebody would fix that....?

    5. Member dirtywabbit84's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 09:51 AM #5
      If the rest of the car is worth saving then go for it!!
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    6. Member vr6swap's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 10:06 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Knappy View Post
      I just don't understand why somebody would fix that....?
      Not agreeing or disagreeing with this, but I would look very closely at the rest of the car before digging into it. If it needs pans, rockers, rear wheel arches, or has rust in the firewall / rain tray seam, it might not be worth fixing.

      That said, I've done a couple of these and it's not difficult. The job actually goes pretty quickly once you get all of the 100,000,000 spot welds drilled out.

      You did the right thing getting the large tail panel with the light apertures. Took some pics while I was doing this to my car and can send them to you if you want.
      Last edited by vr6swap; 03-31-2012 at 10:11 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by 1.9..16vTurbo View Post
      you should stick to that car your trying to paint

    7. Member GTIDamien_407's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 10:10 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Knappy View Post
      I just don't understand why somebody would fix that....?
      Well if everyone had this mindse there wouldn't be many mk2's left in a few years because they have a bit of damage or a rusty gas cap.... That's how people think here in NA, in Europe the fix cars 10x worse then this, for example my cousin first mk2 that he bough was rear ended real bad, the sides wer collapsed and so was the roof slightly. He bought one that was in a front end collision and cut he rear off that and welded that on to the one that was rear ended. Once he was done you couldn't even tell anything happened and he did this all when he was 18 in a matter of 2 weeks. But honestly it's not that bad, you just have to cut out the rear and you should be golden. Good luck op and for saving it and not junking it


      Ps sorry for the bad spelling used my iPod to type that
      Last edited by GTIDamien_407; 03-31-2012 at 10:13 AM.
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    8. Member jetta coupe's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 10:20 AM #8
      There was a 90 gli 16v that came to my shop on a trailer headed to the auction totaled. All that was wrong was a dent in the door, dog leg , and a slightly bent rear beam. Couldn't believe the owner let it go for that little damage.

    9. Senior Member Mr. Knappy's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 10:31 AM #9
      Don't get my statement wrong. It just looks like a general Golf GL. Even with $10k in engine mods, you're still fixing a $1200 car. The energy from that impact had to go through more than just what is seen. When all fixed and painted, you have a car that's worth less than $1200.

      Just my opinion.

    10. Member MrMook's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 11:37 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Knappy View Post
      Don't get my statement wrong. It just looks like a general Golf GL. Even with $10k in engine mods, you're still fixing a $1200 car. The energy from that impact had to go through more than just what is seen. When all fixed and painted, you have a car that's worth less than $1200.

      Just my opinion.
      Where's your sense of adventure?
      From a strictly numbers perspective, sure, a fresh shell could be cheaper, but this shell is actually quite nice, especially for the price, and aside from the unfortunate accident, we've already got this car pretty well sorted. Plus, DIO (Doing It Ourselves) gives us:
      - New and improved welding and fabrication skills
      - New tools for the garage (since we're planning other body mods as well...this is an autox build)
      - One less MKII in the junkyard

      We saved this car once already. We're not going to let it die now.

    11. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 12:40 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by prasina2 View Post
      What vendor did the replacement panel come from? I noticed the one available from Klokkerholm doesn't have the frame for the lights. Thanks
      it's a Klokkerholm piece. like i said, it's probably the last one in all of North America as they don't make it anymore.


      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Knappy
      I just don't understand why somebody would fix that....?
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Knappy
      Don't get my statement wrong. It just looks like a general Golf GL. Even with $10k in engine mods, you're still fixing a $1200 car. The energy from that impact had to go through more than just what is seen. When all fixed and painted, you have a car that's worth less than $1200.

      Just my opinion.
      1. because racecar
      2. because MrMook and I bought it as a practically zero-rust setup for $500
      3. because you can find no rust, no dent shells anymore without paying a pretty penny or taking on someone else's project
      4. i've found that most people my "age" build volkswagens for 'the love of it' or something like that. if i looked at ANY of the cars i've had, or built over the years as investments, i'd be the worst investor ever. our goal for this car isn't to make it a show queen, or to sell it for any amount of money... it's to drive the hell out of it once or twice a month at SCCA Solo events on Long Island or Northern NJ. If it ever becomes time to sell it, anyone worth selling it to will be happy to pay a couple thousand for a properly sorted and tested Mk2 F Street Prepared car with a very properly built, extremely low mileage motor, and a bunch of spares.
      5. I haven't seen a clean $1200 mk2 in over a decade, show me one, and i'll buy it.

      Quote Originally Posted by vr6swap
      Not agreeing or disagreeing with this, but I would look very closely at the rest of the car before digging into it. If it needs pans, rockers, rear wheel arches, or has rust in the firewall / rain tray seam, it might not be worth fixing.

      That said, I've done a couple of these and it's not difficult. The job actually goes pretty quickly once you get all of the 100,000,000 spot welds drilled out.

      You did the right thing getting the large tail panel with the light apertures. Took some pics while I was doing this to my car and can send them to you if you want.
      The rest of the car is pretty much 100%, which is why we bought it to begin with.

      I'm not looking forward to drilling out the spot welds, but that's what my Blair spot weld cutter kit is for :-)

      If you have photos, I'd love to see them. you can forward them to info@limpithome.com

      Quote Originally Posted by GTIDamien_407
      Well if everyone had this mindse there wouldn't be many mk2's left in a few years because they have a bit of damage or a rusty gas cap.... That's how people think here in NA, in Europe the fix cars 10x worse then this ..... Good luck op and for saving it and not junking it
      That's very true, and thanks!

      Quote Originally Posted by MrMook
      From a strictly numbers perspective, sure, a fresh shell could be cheaper...
      If you find one for less than we got this one for... buy it, we'll "somehow make room" for another project. why the hell not at this point?
      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

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      03-31-2012 04:46 PM #12
      4 keep it alive dude.guy..........
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    13. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-01-2012 08:28 PM #13
      I didn't make any progress today. Instead I spent some time disassembling the 16v head that will be going on the ABF clone motor we'll be putting in the mk2 in a couple of weeks.



      best,
      Nater Kane
      Best,
      Nater Kane
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    14. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 08:27 PM #14
      I know it's been awhile... I got sidetracked with friends visiting from out of town, and some repair work that was overdue on my mk4 from a collision back in January/Feb (i don't remember exactly when it happened) including replacing a front strut, a fender, a hood, a bumper, etc.

      Today I was able to pull everything off the rear end. I thought my rear bumper was tweaked, but thanks to the engineers at volkswagen, only the bumper mounts need to get replaced, the bar itself is in good shape and can/will get reused (unless we feel like splurging on some eurobumpers)

      tail lamps out and wiring harnesses moved out of the way.


      carpet and the rest of the interior removed (to prevent fire of course)... due to the fact that the car had a tow setup mounted with rusty bolts... it took me quite some time to cut the heads off of all of the bolts from inside the trunk... only once i did that could i remove the rear bumper.

      after removing the bumper i was able to go around everything with a knotted wire wheel and remove all the seam sealer and identify where (most of) the spot welds are.



      where the tail lamp surround meets the c-pillar it looks like there's some factory braising that needs to be removed/attended to.



      i found some obligatory rust of course



      then i was able to start drilling out some of the spot welds. The rust was from one section on the inside that hadn't been painted with seam sealer. honestly, i wish it were all like this as it's just on the surface, and made it very easy to make sure that i didn't drill too deep with my spot weld cutter.


      more updates tomorrow.
      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

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      04-10-2012 09:34 PM #15
      if the shell is clean otherwise, it'd totally worth it. the way i see it, if it is replaced with a true metal replacement and not just hammered and bondo'ed, it's totally legit and worth doing. for doing it the right way.

    16. Member ca180's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 11:02 PM #16
      subing.... cool to see this work


    17. Member 88Jetta350's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 04:52 AM #17
      That extra hole that's behind the rear bumper is, in fact, for the wiring for the trailer connection. I have an original dealer installed Wesfalia trailer hitch on my Syncro, and that's where all the wiring comes up into the trunk, to be spliced into the tail light wiring.
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    18. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 11:01 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by 88Jetta350 View Post
      That extra hole that's behind the rear bumper is, in fact, for the wiring for the trailer connection. I have an original dealer installed Wesfalia trailer hitch on my Syncro, and that's where all the wiring comes up into the trunk, to be spliced into the tail light wiring.
      that's exactly what i thought it was... i need to measure it's ID and find a plug/grommet for it. why fill it if there's no need?
      Best,
      Nater Kane
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    19. Member Eric D's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 12:35 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by naterkane View Post
      that's exactly what i thought it was... i need to measure it's ID and find a plug/grommet for it. why fill it if there's no need?
      Jetta has the same exact grommet 33.5mm. The European Golf shares the same part # as the Jetta 191 971 926 B.
      The original Dub and Dubber.
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    20. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 02:05 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Eric D View Post
      Jetta has the same exact grommet 33.5mm. The European Golf shares the same part # as the Jetta 191 971 926 B.
      Oh great, thanks a bunch! I didn't even have a chance to look anything up in ETKA yet.
      Best,
      Nater Kane
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    21. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 07:56 PM #21
      MrMook came over today to help work on the car (since he's a co-owner, face time is enthusiastic and productive)... Most of the day I was at my desk working, but I popped in on him now and again to take a few pictures. By the time he was wrapping up, I broke out the body hammers for a few minutes to get some dents and bends sorted.

      MrMook breaking out the seam splitter.


      We had to cut around the lamp housings to access the complicated overlapping panels. I'm SOOOO glad we aren't going to have to use separate tail lamp surrounds for this repair and that we only have a full panel to install.


      To make things less cumbersome, the top half was cut off.


      Hoping the rust on the lower rear quarter wasn't too bad. Luckily, it wasn't.


      Splitting the seam along the floor pan.


      Taking care of a few overlooked/missed spot welds.


      Almost done.. There are still a few pieces of the tail lamp surrounds attached to the back of the c-pillar. The part of the rear panel attached to the rear right quarter was removed just after I took this photo.


      I'm not the greatest (ok, i'm not even close to decent) at working with body hammers... But intellectually I know what I'm doing.

      The left rear quarter was bent in from the collision, so the first thing i did was try to straighten it out so our new panel will line up. As you can see with how the light catches the metal, there's still plenty of work to still do on this area.


      The corner of that same panel (as you can see in the lower right corner of the photo above) was pretty tweaked too, so I started trying to push it back out from the inside. It's a super tricky and tight spot and if I'm not able to to make it look clean, there's a good chance that we'll just cut it out and bend/fab a new little piece to go there.


      MrMook then pointed out that there was a dent that we've had all along on the rear right quarter... This is the perfect time to attend to it, so (though it also still needs more attention) I spent a few minutes getting it closer to home.


      Checking the aerosol shelves I don't have any cans of guide coat laying around... so this evening I'm going to run to the store and pick up a can or two along with some glase coat and some seam sealer for when we get the new panel in.
      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

    22. Member GTIDamien_407's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 08:21 PM #22
      Nice work man! I hate spot welds /seams too
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    23. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 08:26 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by GTIDamien_407 View Post
      Nice work man! I hate spot welds /seams too
      The only bit that (as far as i'm concerned) was a pain in the rear, were the factory braised seams between the headlight surrounds and the c-pillars.

      It did remind me that I need to go buy some braising rod to smooth the seams out when everything goes back together. Way more repairable and easier to work with then welded seams.
      Best,
      Nater Kane
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      04-12-2012 10:46 AM #24
      subscribed

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      04-12-2012 12:45 PM #25
      good work
      following this one...
      '87 GTI 1.8t t3 60 trim, '01 TT 180q gt28rs
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    26. Member kdeboer's Avatar
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      04-12-2012 01:08 PM #26
      for repairing it!

    27. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 12:03 AM #27
      No real updates to report today as I spent most of the afternoon tracking down my (what i thought was stolen this morning) Mk4 that was apparently towed by the city marshals over a couple of parking tickets. After a number of hours, and $730+ (1/2 of which were "fees"), I drove the Mk4 home from the tow yard, sans front bumper and battery hold down. (it's in the middle of being repaired from a collision last Feb).

      What MrMook and I were able to get done, was:

      • clean up the mating surfaces on the car
      • test fit the panel to see how tweaked it was
      • spend more time with the hammers straightening out and cleaning up the repair panel by
        • removing a super awkward dent and some funky bends from the item being shipped
        • cleaning up and flattening out some bad spot welds and seams where individual parts of the repair panel meet each other


      We're in the process of discussing paint options right now. Since this is literally a race car, it doesn't need to be awesome, but I would like to have the whole car resprayed as the hood is missing 80% of it's clear coat, and the roof's clear is scratched and can't just be sanded back, get the current clear melted, and then re-cleared.

      If anyone knows a paint shop in brooklyn or queens who are cheap, but won't leave me with drips or too much orange peel, please do let me know. I know that if I paint it myself, the car will end up with a pretty piss poor job.

      I've never bothered to use lists on here till today... i love lists!
      Best,
      Nater Kane
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    28. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-19-2012 04:24 AM #28
      I know it's been a few days... but both MrMook and I have been busy (work, special ladies, you know... the important stuff). Today however, we were able to make some time to get this damn panel on.

      One thing we didn't notice until today came as quite a surprise... but I'm not going to tell you what that was until later.

      Starting off... since the rear bumper supports needed to be replaced, and our front bumper was also a little tweaked from a collision in it's previous life, we decided to have ECS send us a giant box.

      Here's yours truly, enjoying that box (and some sun).


      Since we were going to be replacing so much of the rear of the car I decided to pull the stone guards from the rear wheels. What I found wasn't a surprise, though it was the first bit of rust to be found on the car at any capacity.


      typical...


      and this was caused by the sunroof drain hose not being properly routed out of the rear quarter... so for who knows how many years, it just dumped rain water directly into this one sealed area (other side isn't like this at all). it's difficult to tell in the photo but it's not "rusty", but there's a huge hole there. (more on that once we get around to fixing it... not today)


      this little bit was later just cleaned up... hit with encapsulator, and kept as is due to how impossible it would have been to remove the seam sealer behind there without making a big smokey fire.


      next up was a little more hammer and dolly work to bring the left corner into proper and workable alignment...


      We decided it was time to setup the new welder (honestly... it's not bad at all, everything in this picture (including plasma cutter, 80lb bottle of 75/25, etc) was under $1300.


      ok, time to setup the welder...


      checking for penetration, etc... (and no, i didn't care that i warped the hell out of these scrap panels)



      everyone knows what this is for.


      we decided to go with the third step down.. i forget what size holes they were... maybe 1/4"? they just about matched the factory spot weld diameters.


      test fit... and there's a terrible gap! why? Klokkerholm assembled the panels together incorrectly!!!!! the overlap at the top of the photo is backwards... the horizontal piece is supposed to go ABOVE the main rear panel! :bang head: (that's the surprise i was talking about)


      this edge was going to have to get trimmed down and clearanced to allow the panel to get close enough in each corner.


      so i trim it down (later i just used a flap wheel as the cutoff wheel was a novel but stupid first choice)


      before fitting the panel again i made sure to get ALL of the previous panel off of the ends of the c-pillars. it was a total buggar and took about 20 minutes to chisel these little pieces off the inside with the seam splitter and a hammer.



      then we needed to move the rear panel in... so we drilled out the Klokkerholm spot welds, and since it wasn't reasonable to take the whole panel apart, we decided to just push and clamp it into the "correct" position. more trimming and body hammers were to come before it was going to fit correctly.


      panel tweaked, clearanced and massaged and then clamped into place (though still overlapping the wrong way... but F' it... it's a race car)



      navigating the clamps is fun and profitable!


      first plug welds were enough to remove the clamps... though i did go back over them to make sure i had good fill and penetration later on.


      here's MrMook cleaning up some work


      before we finished everything, we needed to test fit the new hatch. the previous owner of the hatch cut the wiring harness and all other connections that were fished into the hatch... so we had to strip it of everything, and make plans to migrate our old harness, hardware, washer line, etc from the old bent hatch to this one. (that's work that will get done another day)


      more test fitting


      then, once everything was as tight as we felt was worth doing, it was time to finish welding everything together... the six "extra" holes to the outside and bottom of each bumper support opening were the result of MrMook getting a little excited with his drilling... so they got filled before we fit the panel.


      after a dozen of them or so, and remembering to not pull away but linger and let the gas continue to shield the weld as it cools, they looked like this. (this was my first time welding in over 7 years)


      i also plugged the holes in the trunk left by the old towing setup's mounting bolts... they're not interesting though, so i didn't bother taking a photo... it was just filling some 1/2" holes using a 3/4" copper pipe and end cap as a backer/heatsync. nothing special.

      tomorrow i'll take another look over things... maybe drill out and redo one spot where the panel isn't 100% tight against the body, maybe not.

      next up is some braising (hell yeah!), seam sealer, body filler, and a solid coat of primer (don't know when we're going to paint this thing).
      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

    29. Member db3ck's Avatar
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      04-19-2012 08:49 AM #29
      great work man

      i think you should of put a jetta rear clip on it would look sick
      Last edited by db3ck; 04-19-2012 at 09:00 AM.
      Eva: 90 b3 wagon

      96 4dr aba golf

    30. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-19-2012 11:56 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by db3ck View Post
      great work man

      i think you should of put a jetta rear clip on it would look sick
      interesting idea... maybe one day it would be fun to modify a hatch to accept jetta tails... hrm... for this car we were just going for a repair. it might be at a show or two this year, but it's a race car... so it doesn't need to be visually "interesting".

      and thanks!
      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

    31. Member db3ck's Avatar
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      04-19-2012 01:19 PM #31
      ya ive seen it on a mk3 but not a mk2 i think it would look amazing lmaybe one day ill buy a golf just to do that lol

      np man keep up the work and this thing will be done in no time
      Eva: 90 b3 wagon

      96 4dr aba golf

    32. Member Smiff's Avatar
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      04-19-2012 01:29 PM #32
      Thanks for documenting your work! Very cool to see one getting repaired. I'll be digging into the Jetta in my garage pretty soon, rotten from the rockers down. Looking forward to some pics from your brazing. I'll probably be doing body solder for dings on mine, brazing the seems is logical to me too.

    33. Member Vee-DubbVR6's Avatar
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      04-19-2012 11:14 PM #33
      nice work

    34. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-20-2012 12:52 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
      Thanks for documenting your work! Very cool to see one getting repaired. I'll be digging into the Jetta in my garage pretty soon, rotten from the rockers down. Looking forward to some pics from your brazing. I'll probably be doing body solder for dings on mine, brazing the seems is logical to me too.
      The bits to be braised are the overlapping panels where the c-pillar connects to the tail lamp surrounds. Due to the heat required to properly braised the joints, I'm a little concerned about the possibility of distorsion and warping... its simple for smoothing out the seams, so I may just solder and grind the joints instead. This will be decided tomorrow.

      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

    35. Member naterkane's Avatar
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      04-23-2012 07:07 PM #35
      Here's a delayed update from a few days ago... I would have posted sooner, but we were too busy getting things together for the new york region scca solo2 event that took place yesterday.

      MrMook left town for a few days, but came back bearing gifts... including mk3 front seat belts (three point) and this...


      The clear coat on the hood was peeling badly... and since we found out on friday that sunday (yesterday) was going to be a rain soaked event... i decided to attend to and clean things up a "little" bit.


      the two blues indicate the areas that still had, and didn't have clear/top coat.


      i found a dent... so i spent some time with a torch and some hammer/dolly work.



      it's not perfect, but it's pretty much gone... good enough for a car that only sees race events anyway.


      and into primer (self-etching, the filler primer, the wet sanded, then generic 'whatever' primer left fuzzy (for now))


      it was getting late saturday night/sunday morning... and we almost forgot the seam sealer!


      then after fitting the hatch, lamps small bumper from ECS (that fit like complete and total garbage might I add) and wiring everything up. I think our donor hatch is/was a bit tweaked... but that can get taken car of later.


      we then realized that we were going to need a place to mount the battery in the trunk... and between hating those huge, generic huge plastic trays, and not being able to find the huge generic plastic tray i have laying around somewhere... we decided to fab one up real quick.

      template.


      rough cut


      trimmed more to fit on the bender, then bent into shape.


      and installed...


      Best,
      Nater Kane
      Motörshed Inc

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