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    Thread: Fuel Injected ITB's

    1. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-03-2012 12:43 PM #1
      I'm currently planning a 16v ABA build, and I want to go with ITB's, but I don't want carbs.

      So far, most of the builds I've found all have carbs, and I've spent a lot of time looking for information on google as well, but I guess I'm bad at searching for these things because I can't find any useful information.


      Do any of you guys know of a detailed build thread, or just somewhere that I can read about this kind of build and what is required to do it?

      Any known issues I should be worried about?
      Bad idea in general?


      I'm still reading stuff about an ITB set up in general, so any information regarding that would be nice too. Thanks!
      Eurofine
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      04-03-2012 01:27 PM #2
      There are a few different companies that make ITB setups for 16v. Some use Itbs from bikes. You will want to look into standalone engine management to control fuel and spark

    3. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-03-2012 02:04 PM #3
      So basically, I have to deal with getting the ITB's to work properly (opening together, closing, so on)

      Then all I have to do is set the management up to fuel / spark correctly?
      Eurofine
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    4. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-03-2012 03:50 PM #4
      My old boss and I had an SCCA tube frame Scirocco with a 1.8L 8V running GSXR ITBs and a megasquirt2 standalone. It worked quite well and wasn't horrible to set up or tune. But you'll want the ITBs from a 98-02 bike.
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    5. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-03-2012 03:54 PM #5
      Any reason why I want that year range?
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    6. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-03-2012 03:57 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Sycoticmynd29 View Post
      Any reason why I want that year range?
      Yeah those are the only ones that are truly individual... the newer ones are paired like a weber DCOE.
      The Professor
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    7. Member SirSpectre's Avatar
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      04-03-2012 09:24 PM #7
      Also be sure to find a set that has the TPS still on it. Limits the range. I found tons of ITBs but only a few had TPS. Luckily they were off a bike and were only $50

    8. Member airplanewrencher's Avatar
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      04-03-2012 09:57 PM #8
      Here is a DIY i did on some local forums regarding GSXR ITBS and a 16v head. Good info on making your manifold and whatnot.

      http://dubberz.com/forum/index.php/topic,61149.0.html

      Cheers

    9. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 10:20 AM #9
      That's awesome! Thanks!

      What management are you using?




      If I get a set of GSXR TB's, do I want GSXR 750, or 1000?
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    10. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 11:58 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Sycoticmynd29 View Post

      If I get a set of GSXR TB's, do I want GSXR 750, or 1000?
      750 and 1000 are the same size and work well for a 1.8-2.0L turning up to ~8000rpms
      The Professor
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    11. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 12:04 PM #11
      What would you suggest if I was aiming for 9k-10k rpm limit?
      Eurofine
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      04-04-2012 12:27 PM #12
      I'm using megasquirt( my build isn't quite done)


      Do you know how much you want to spend? It gets really expensive making a high rpm high comp na monster. Are you planning on solid lifters? Compression ratio? 94 octane or race gas? Extend of head work?

      My setup is this.
      Obd1 aba block bored 1mm over
      Arp head studs,mainstuds and Conrod bolts
      Je 11:1 abf pistons(from integrated engineering)
      Gsxr itb's
      TT 288 cams
      TT hd valve springs
      Rest of valve train stock
      Very minimal port and polish( more of a cleaning up all the factory cast and machining marks)

    13. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 05:30 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Sycoticmynd29 View Post
      What would you suggest if I was aiming for 9k-10k rpm limit?
      A dry sumped motor and hyabusa ITBs
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
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    14. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 11:14 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by airplanewrencher View Post
      I'm using megasquirt( my build isn't quite done)


      Do you know how much you want to spend? It gets really expensive making a high rpm high comp na monster. Are you planning on solid lifters? Compression ratio? 94 octane or race gas? Extend of head work?

      My setup is this.
      Obd1 aba block bored 1mm over
      Arp head studs,mainstuds and Conrod bolts
      Je 11:1 abf pistons(from integrated engineering)
      Gsxr itb's
      TT 288 cams
      TT hd valve springs
      Rest of valve train stock
      Very minimal port and polish( more of a cleaning up all the factory cast and machining marks)
      Cost is not a problem, I plan on buying everything piece by piece then building it all at once.

      Thinking OBDI ABA bottom end with all new seals and gaskets

      ARP bolts / studs on everything

      I think ABF pistons, I still want to look into reasonable compression ratios a little more, I'd like to go as high as I can while not risking blowing up my car.

      Probably new connecting rods, lighter weight, not sure.

      GSXR ITB's

      276*cams

      Solid lifters

      rebuilt valve train, lighter weight, heavy duty parts

      Multi-angle valve job

      port and polish (probably relatively mild)

      With Lugtronic standalone.

      The car is going to be a daily, so I would like to keep it on pump gas (hence my compression ratio worries)

      I really want to do a 2.0 NA build, but I don't want to spend almost as much on it as I would for a turbo kit, and end up with 30 more HP. I'd like to have a drive-able NA car at around 200hp.


      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      A dry sumped motor and hyabusa ITBs
      Any examples? haha, I just kinda want to see it now.
      Eurofine
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    15. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 03:30 PM #15
      Any suggestions for where I can read about ignition timing?

      Seeing lots of talk about people having problems with the ignition timing and setting advances and retarding things, and I have no idea what the point of any of it is.


      Thanks.
      Eurofine
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      04-10-2012 03:45 PM #16
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_timing

      http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/..._Index.htm#log

      http://www.tuningmadeeasy.com/tuning...nition-part-1/

      Basically, its the tuning aspect if your car that will let you get more power, or completely destroy your engine.

    17. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 03:52 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Sycoticmynd29 View Post
      Cost is not a problem, I plan on buying everything piece by piece then building it all at once.

      Thinking OBDI ABA bottom end with all new seals and gaskets

      ARP bolts / studs on everything

      I think ABF pistons, I still want to look into reasonable compression ratios a little more, I'd like to go as high as I can while not risking blowing up my car.

      Probably new connecting rods, lighter weight, not sure.

      GSXR ITB's

      276*cams

      Solid lifters

      rebuilt valve train, lighter weight, heavy duty parts

      Multi-angle valve job

      port and polish (probably relatively mild)

      With Lugtronic standalone.

      The car is going to be a daily, so I would like to keep it on pump gas (hence my compression ratio worries)

      I really want to do a 2.0 NA build, but I don't want to spend almost as much on it as I would for a turbo kit, and end up with 30 more HP. I'd like to have a drive-able NA car at around 200hp.



      While a drivable 2.0L 200hp N/A motor can be done, you're not going to do it with a 2.0L VW without a dry sump oiling system ( $1500 and up). The factory oiling system is good to about 8000 rpm. You'll need to turn the motor 9000-9500 or more ( like the 2.0L in a Honda S2000) and to do that you HAVE to dry sump it.
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
      Linfert Performance: The Megasquirt guy in central Florida Like my Facebook page....
      Sandy Linfert 11/4/1991 - 5/13/2013

    18. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 04:35 PM #18
      So if i go through with the build using the parts listed, about what kind of power do you think I can expect?


      Thanks.
      Eurofine
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    19. Member SirSpectre's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 04:46 PM #19
      Without going into pistons or crank, I bet you could do 165 to 175 whp with that setup.

    20. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 10:52 AM #20
      Agreed
      The Professor
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    21. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-11-2012 06:27 PM #21
      Found some Helpful seeming threads:

      Dyno Results
      Build thread

      Still reading through everything in the build.

      It looks like he used higher compression pistons and bigger valves than I'm planning, but he was able to hit 195whp after his rebuild, and apparently that is without it being tuned for optimum performance...


      What compression ratio would you guys suggest I aim for? I heard 11:1 and up is risky on pump gas.
      Eurofine
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      04-11-2012 07:20 PM #22
      He had bigger pistons, bigger valves, and lighter weight crank. 195 is really, really nice on that setup. With a bigger cam you could start to push some better numbers, along with the bigger valves as well.

      11:1 is fine on pump. My ABA runs at 10.7:1 on 93 with no issues. All it means is you will have to use a tad less timing. But if you are itching for some big numbers, crank that up to 13:1 with 83.5mm pistons and use e85 as your fuel. With 288 cams, good porting, and +.5mm valves, you could crack 200 whp with that puppy. Big bucks though

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      04-11-2012 08:55 PM #23
      Just a note r32 are 11.3:1. You should have no problem with 11:1 on 93

    24. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 02:58 PM #24
      Next question I have is about idling.

      I feel like this is probably a really stupid question and that I am over-complicating things which is why I am so confused.

      How do you get ITB's to idle?

      Not Idle smoothly, or consistently, just idle at all.

      The engine I know the best is OBD1 ABA, which uses an IAC / ISV so I'm curious if you use something similar with ITB's, or if its something completely different.


      As I said, really stupid question.
      Eurofine
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    25. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 03:35 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Sycoticmynd29 View Post
      Next question I have is about idling.

      I feel like this is probably a really stupid question and that I am over-complicating things which is why I am so confused.

      How do you get ITB's to idle?

      Not Idle smoothly, or consistently, just idle at all.

      The engine I know the best is OBD1 ABA, which uses an IAC / ISV so I'm curious if you use something similar with ITB's, or if its something completely different.


      As I said, really stupid question.
      Actually all of my ITB/twin sidedraft experience has been that idling is easy even with big cams. Much easier than a plenum manifold and single TB.

      That being said, when we did the ITBs on the GTL car we tied the GSXR injector ports together with brass fittings and 3/8 hose and ran them to a digi 1 ISV. but I have put standalone systems on a number of ITB race motors and even without an idle valve they worked fine. Just use the base idle screw on the ITBs
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