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    Thread: Fuel Injected ITB's

    1. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 10:37 AM #51
      I think I am going to try to have flanges welded onto the ends of the throttles so I can bolt it to the "manifold" instead of having them connected with silicon couplers.

      That way I won't have to deal with them swelling or shifting, which will hopefully make everything work a little smoother.



      Now I have heard time and time again that Stand alone is required to run ITB's just because of the difference in sensors used.

      Would it be possible to run OEM management with ITB's if I used a plenum?

      I would replace the TPS with the TPS for the ITB's, then everything else would be the same.

      Think it would work?
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    2. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 10:41 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Sycoticmynd29 View Post
      Now I have heard time and time again that Stand alone is required to run ITB's just because of the difference in sensors used.

      Would it be possible to run OEM management with ITB's if I used a plenum?

      I would replace the TPS with the TPS for the ITB's, then everything else would be the same.

      Think it would work?
      Swap the TPS's would only work if they had the same values, it depends upon what OEM management you are considering (it has been done, but I doubt it was very good to drive), and a standalone is generally used due to the fact it is easier to tune for the new setup.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      06-04-2012 10:43 AM #53
      Do you really want to run cis-e with Itbs? Kinda defeats the purpose.

    4. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 11:12 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by bonesaw View Post
      Do you really want to run cis-e with Itbs? Kinda defeats the purpose.

    5. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 11:36 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by bonesaw View Post
      Do you really want to run cis-e with Itbs? Kinda defeats the purpose.
      I might be making an ass out of myself here but,

      I don't think I am running CIS-e, the car is already ABA swapped with a matching ECU.

      I have never been sure which cars have which fueling though, so that might still be CIS-E.


      It wouldn't be the end of the line, just a middle step to get the ITB's on the car and driving sooner rather than later. Pretty much just a random idea I had, and it would be kind of cool if it worked well.
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    6. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 12:31 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Sycoticmynd29 View Post
      I might be making an ass out of myself here but,

      I don't think I am running CIS-e, the car is already ABA swapped with a matching ECU.

      I have never been sure which cars have which fueling though, so that might still be CIS-E.


      It wouldn't be the end of the line, just a middle step to get the ITB's on the car and driving sooner rather than later. Pretty much just a random idea I had, and it would be kind of cool if it worked well.
      ABAs are electronic fuel injection.
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      06-04-2012 12:32 PM #57
      Is the car a 16v or 8v? Either way a plenum is required for maf or fuel management unit

    8. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 02:35 PM #58
      Currently the car is an 8v ABA

      The motor the ITB's will go on will be a 16v swapped ABA.


      If I have to wait until I have everything (mainly the stand alone) I will wait, just trying to think of set ups I can do as steps towards the whole.


      Do you think I could get the car running normally (AKA no power loss) with that set up?

      Part of the reason I'm even thinking about it is because a friend works for someone who is apparently trying to work out a way to run ITB's on OEM ECU's, although they are going more for OBD2 than OBD1, but I still see it as a step in the right direction if it will work for OBD1...
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      06-04-2012 02:44 PM #59
      on the newer cars that have MAP sensors sure, but ABA is MAF only and a plenum would be required. You should probability wait until you get the standalone and do it right the first time.

    10. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 02:47 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by bonesaw View Post
      on the newer cars that have MAP sensors sure, but ABA is MAF only and a plenum would be required. You should probability wait until you get the standalone and do it right the first time.
      Getting it to run on the OEM ECU would use a plenum.

      That's actually what I was trying to figure out, if it would be possible if I used a plenum to keep the MAF sensor.


      None of that is a matter of how I want mine set up, just as a proof of concept really.

      Thanks for the help!
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      06-04-2012 02:48 PM #61
      It MAY work, But without proper tuning it it only going to run as good as a stock ABA.

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      06-04-2012 02:56 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by bonesaw View Post
      It MAY work, But without proper tuning it it only going to run as good as a stock ABA.
      That's as far as I would take it. Prove that you can do it on the Stock management, gains or not.

      Getting it to actually matter would be up to anybody who actually wanted to run that set up.



      I like playing with crazy ideas and thinking up ways to get them to work, just because of what it is more than what it does.

      The actual build plan will stick to what is known to work.
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    13. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 03:02 PM #63
      I think the MAF/plenum is probably easier then getting a modded 1 window 16v dizzy working. It seems people even have trouble with that! Make sure you just buy and ABF one to save the headache.
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    14. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 03:04 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      I think the MAF/plenum is probably easier then getting a modded 1 window 16v dizzy working. It seems people even have trouble with that! Make sure you just buy and ABF one to save the headache.
      I thought the modified Dizzy was more for the 16v head swap than the ITB's?
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      06-04-2012 08:54 PM #65
      you really need to check the thread I linked earlier
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt 2-extra v2.2 box
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      I really don't trust myself and have a tendency to catastrophize, but I don't even trust that I screw things up, so I'm pretty damn good at making and fixing stuff!

    16. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      06-04-2012 10:24 PM #66
      You will need the dizzy mod on stock Motronic management, period.
      -Paul
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    17. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      06-05-2012 12:01 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      You will need the dizzy mod on stock Motronic management, period.
      I don't think the Op knows that there is no room for the ABA dizzy in the ABA location with a 16V head on the block and the dizzy will have to be in the 16V location, meaning that the 16V dizzy is a 4 window dizzy that will have to be modded to a 1 window dizzy.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      06-05-2012 01:22 AM #68
      I would not advise welding to the t-bodies they will warp. The other problem is you have to run a standalone if you want to make any power on itb's.

    19. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-05-2012 08:59 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by weeblebiker View Post
      you really need to check the thread I linked earlier
      I looked through it, just haven't had a chance to read it yet.

      Quote Originally Posted by JakRabit View Post
      I would not advise welding to the t-bodies they will warp. The other problem is you have to run a standalone if you want to make any power on itb's.
      Didn't think about the throttles warping.. hm


      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      You will need the dizzy mod on stock Motronic management, period.

      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      I don't think the Op knows that there is no room for the ABA dizzy in the ABA location with a 16V head on the block and the dizzy will have to be in the 16V location, meaning that the 16V dizzy is a 4 window dizzy that will have to be modded to a 1 window dizzy.
      I didn't even think about spacing issues.

      I was planning on using the 16v dizzy, and I know the windows have to be swapped in from the ABA dizzy, I just wasn't sure why you brought it up.
      Last edited by Sycoticmynd29; 06-05-2012 at 09:07 AM.
      Eurofine
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    20. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      06-05-2012 09:57 AM #70
      Because lots of people struggle to make it work.
      -Paul
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    21. 06-05-2012 11:58 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Because lots of people struggle to make it work.
      listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about. he helped me quite a bit..... hi paul

    22. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-05-2012 04:53 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by vwjunkie42 View Post
      listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about. he helped me quite a bit..... hi paul
      Oh I know, I felt special just because he actually responded in the thread to begin with haha.

      So far every time I've seen his name he has been dishing out the knowledge
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      06-08-2012 01:26 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Because lots of people struggle to make it work.
      I'm still struggling to make it work.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt 2-extra v2.2 box
      volvo TD04h-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs,beer can, staged injection, maf, COPs
      I really don't trust myself and have a tendency to catastrophize, but I don't even trust that I screw things up, so I'm pretty damn good at making and fixing stuff!

    24. 06-09-2012 07:31 PM #74
      Here's the start of my build thread from 5 years ago:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...n-(lotta-pics)

      I've done a bit more to it since I last posted, here's the new ITB manifold, it points the ITBs right into the grill as opposed to the hood like most are setup.



      I'm still working on the tuning, once warmed up, it runs great, getting it warmed up is the problem.

    25. Member Sycoticmynd29's Avatar
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      06-11-2012 09:04 AM #75
      I've been trying to think of how I would like to mount my ITB's if I want to do something like you have and point them directly at the grill, or if I want to do the normal set up.


      My main issue is I have read that the length of the runners is very important to the power output of ITB's and that the distance from the throttle to the valves should be controlled and within a certain range to be really effective.

      It could just be the angle of the pictures, but to me your runners look longer than most of the other ones I have seen, and right now I am unsure of exactly how long I would want my runners to be.


      Thanks for the link, I should have some free time today to browse through the last few links you guys have posted.


      Link to the article talking about runner length

      That's the FAQ section on the Jenvey site, they have some information about picking throttle diameter as well as deciding on a runner length.

      I haven't tried to figure out what the best length would be, mostly because I want to wait so I can measure everything out myself.
      Last edited by Sycoticmynd29; 06-11-2012 at 09:09 AM.
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