Fuel Injected ITB's

[Sycoticmynd29]

That graph is from the last time I dyno'd my car. I haven't done anything to the motor since then except for some tuning.

I have my rev limit set at 7500 because I don't need to go any higher. From my other dyno runs I can tell I start losing power around that point so that's where I set it. I'm sure the head could take it but my bottom end isn't built for high RPMs.

If you're looking for 200 whp then be willing to spend a MAJOR amount of money. A 9000 RPM motor will help you get to 200 whp but that will be a very high sprung race motor.

I would not recommend chasing numbers. That can be a huge waste of time and money.

When you dyno'd the higher rev limit, which throttles were you using? the 45mm or the 48mm? Just curious if it would make a difference.

I'm going to have my Rev limit set at 8500 so I would be shifting just after 8k.


I'm also going to be using an OBD1 ABA bottom end which I'm also building towards higher revs and high compression.

I would absolutely love to run 12:1 CR, but at the same time, I'm worried that at some point in time I'll end up getting some bad gas and having things go wrong.

I've been thinking about stepping down to 11.5:1 and seeing how that works out, and if I'm unhappy with it, going up to 12.


as I said, I'll be contacting Jarod shortly about the build and see what he suggests.


Thanks again for all your help, I don't want to bother you, you just have a but load of experience in this area as you've tried different things.

[frechem]

When you dyno'd the higher rev limit, which throttles were you using? the 45mm or the 48mm? Just curious if it would make a difference.

I'm going to have my Rev limit set at 8500 so I would be shifting just after 8k.

I'm also going to be using an OBD1 ABA bottom end which I'm also building towards higher revs and high compression.

I would absolutely love to run 12:1 CR, but at the same time, I'm worried that at some point in time I'll end up getting some bad gas and having things go wrong.

I've been thinking about stepping down to 11.5:1 and seeing how that works out, and if I'm unhappy with it, going up to 12.

as I said, I'll be contacting Jarod shortly about the build and see what he suggests.

Thanks again for all your help, I don't want to bother you, you just have a but load of experience in this area as you've tried different things.

I found out my limit on both sizes and set my rev limit accordingly.

Contacting Jarod would be a great idea as he has a wealth of knowledge on the subject.

Also, I'm not sure an ABA block would be the best for a high reving motor. It is a tall block and therefore has a longer rod length I believe. This is good for torque but not so much for revs. I know the FI guys like it because of the forged crank and oil squirters but that is something you might want to research.

I'll keep answering your questions to the best of my abilities. You're not bothering me at all. That's why we're here, to learn from one another.

[Sycoticmynd29]

I found out my limit on both sizes and set my rev limit accordingly.

Contacting Jarod would be a great idea as he has a wealth of knowledge on the subject.

Also, I'm not sure an ABA block would be the best for a high reving motor. It is a tall block and therefore has a longer rod length I believe. This is good for torque but not so much for revs. I know the FI guys like it because of the forged crank and oil squirters but that is something you might want to research.

I'll keep answering your questions to the best of my abilities. You're not bothering me at all. That's why we're here, to learn from one another.

I know there are better blocks for higher revs, but there is just something about the ABA that I love. And I figure the shorter stroke makes it more reliable as there is less wear on the parts because they don't need to move as fast, but I won't be revving out to 7g+ constantly, so I feel like I'll be fine using the ABA.

I'm going to re-read vwjunkie's build thread for the motor he got to 195whp on bike throttles, see what he did, and go from there.

Will you be going to Waterfest next year? I'm pretty mad I missed you at h20, I would have loved to see your car in person!

[bonesaw]

I can attest to not chasing #s. I really wanted to make 200whp. On the dyno I made 178whp on a superflow. It may be closer to 200whp on a dynojet but havent had the time to redyno. I was a little bummed but the car still boogies. Pulls to 8700rpm. It didnt gain much power past 8200 but it did not lose. I am running 20v head with AE111 45mm ITBs. No porting has been done yet. 12:1 using a mk4 2.0 block. if this is going into mk2 or later it may be something to look into. Internal waterpump. already 2.0. shorter rods. Some have oil squirters. Internal trigger wheel over a 16v block. ABA will also work out fine but not the only option. my recommendation is to continue doing research so you can do it right the first time.

[ValveCoverGasket]

I would not recommend chasing numbers. That can be a huge waste of time and money.

indeed, and its unlikely youll really feel the last 10hp on the street anyway... let alone be operating up there often enough to notice

[Sycoticmynd29]

What I currently Have:

PnP'd 16v head, completely disassembled
OBD1 ABA bottom end, completely disassembled
Freshly balanced ABA crank
ARP head bolts, rod bolts, and I believe Main bolts
16v manifold flange
All of the internals for the ABA16v, still not 100% on what they are out of.
Eurospec underdrive LW crank pulley (not sure if I'll be using this)
All accessories

What I own but don't have in my possession yet:
GSXR ITB's no idea what all is on them, still haven't seen them


Shopping list:
Complete Valvetrain (not sure if parts are included in the cost listed on SSCH)
Cams (276 or 288)
All gaskets and seals for the block
All Bearings for the block
Rods
Pistons 83.5mm 11.3-12:1 CR (leaning more towards 11.3 now because of VWjunkie's build)
Lugtronic ECU
TWM ITB's (45mm unless I know I will benefit from going larger)
Any remaining ARP hardware
Custom "tuned" header


Those are the main things I'm going to be getting off the top of my head, I know there is more, I'll just have to get it when I realize I don't have it already.

I still need to look into fueling, but as far as I can tell I will only need an adjustable FPR, or possible injectors.


I've started setting money aside for this, and will probably start making moves once I have enough for the head work.


I hate how close I am to being able to do this, but at the same time, I'm pretty far away.

[frechem]

What I currently Have:

PnP'd 16v head, completely disassembled
OBD1 ABA bottom end, completely disassembled
Freshly balanced ABA crank
ARP head bolts, rod bolts, and I believe Main bolts
16v manifold flange
All of the internals for the ABA16v, still not 100% on what they are out of.
Eurospec underdrive LW crank pulley (not sure if I'll be using this)
All accessories

What I own but don't have in my possession yet:
GSXR ITB's no idea what all is on them, still haven't seen them


Shopping list:
Complete Valvetrain (not sure if parts are included in the cost listed on SSCH)
Cams (276 or 288)
All gaskets and seals for the block
All Bearings for the block
Rods
Pistons 83.5mm 11.3-12:1 CR (leaning more towards 11.3 now because of VWjunkie's build)
Lugtronic ECU
TWM ITB's (45mm unless I know I will benefit from going larger)
Any remaining ARP hardware
Custom "tuned" header

Those are the main things I'm going to be getting off the top of my head, I know there is more, I'll just have to get it when I realize I don't have it already.

I still need to look into fueling, but as far as I can tell I will only need an adjustable FPR, or possible injectors.

I've started setting money aside for this, and will probably start making moves once I have enough for the head work.

I hate how close I am to being able to do this, but at the same time, I'm pretty far away.

Parts are not included into the price of a SCCH head. However, he might be able to get some deals for you on stuff if you order everything through him. If you go with TWM ITBs you won't need an FPR as they already have one. If you are increasing your displacement and/or CR and running 288 cams then I would suggest going with 48mm bodies. I would only run 45s on a "stockish" motor.

[Sycoticmynd29]

Parts are not included into the price of a SCCH head. However, he might be able to get some deals for you on stuff if you order everything through him. If you go with TWM ITBs you won't need an FPR as they already have one. If you are increasing your displacement and/or CR and running 288 cams then I would suggest going with 48mm bodies. I would only run 45s on a "stockish" motor.

Wow, that was honestly the only reason I could see the price tag on the stg4 head being $2,500

I can get the same work done, as well as get a ferrea valve train and pay less than or about that at the shop around here.

[frechem]

Wow, that was honestly the only reason I could see the price tag on the stg4 head being $2,500

I can get the same work done, as well as get a ferrea valve train and pay less than or about that at the shop around here.

Maybe it is then. I thought it wasn't but I may be wrong. Better ask him just to be certain.

[Sycoticmynd29]

I can attest to not chasing #s. I really wanted to make 200whp. On the dyno I made 178whp on a superflow. It may be closer to 200whp on a dynojet but havent had the time to redyno. I was a little bummed but the car still boogies. Pulls to 8700rpm. It didnt gain much power past 8200 but it did not lose. I am running 20v head with AE111 45mm ITBs. No porting has been done yet. 12:1 using a mk4 2.0 block. if this is going into mk2 or later it may be something to look into. Internal waterpump. already 2.0. shorter rods. Some have oil squirters. Internal trigger wheel over a 16v block. ABA will also work out fine but not the only option. my recommendation is to continue doing research so you can do it right the first time.

Do you still run a hydro head?

[bonesaw]

Do you still run a hydro head?

Yes

[redrbt2.5]

Maybe it is then. I thought it wasn't but I may be wrong. Better ask him just to be certain.

I just called jarod yesterday for work on my head and for his stage 3, .5mm oversized valves, adjustable can gear, and various other valve train parts he quoted 2500. Also a 3 month wait

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Sycoticmynd29]

I just called jarod yesterday for work on my head and for his stage 3, .5mm oversized valves, adjustable can gear, and various other valve train parts he quoted 2500. Also a 3 month wait

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Last E-mail I got from him told me the price on his page is old, and the parts are not included in the price. Didn't give me the updated price though.

Still trying to figure out if I'm going to do a solid head conversion or keep it hydro.

Jarod is saying go solid, but Bonesaw is revving up to 8700 on a Hydro head...

[bonesaw]

I am 20v though. It also depends on what you are using the car for.

[frechem]

I am 20v though. It also depends on what you are using the car for.

True. It also depends on your bottom end as well.

[Sycoticmynd29]

I am 20v though. It also depends on what you are using the car for.

Yea, right after I posted I thought I remembered you saying you were 20v not 16, so the Solid head choice is pretty much up to Jarod haha.

I have no problems with going to a solid head, so if I need to do it to rev as high as I would like, I'll do it.

[bonesaw]

Mk4 2.0 bottom end. 92.8mm crank 144mm rods. 82.7mm pistons. 12.3:1 CR

[need_a_VR6]

We spun Mendras to 9300 but we permanently collapsed the intake lifters the week later while street tuning it.

[Sycoticmynd29]

We spun Mendras to 9300 but we permanently collapsed the intake lifters the week later while street tuning it.

So are you voting Hydro or Solid to rev to 8500?

[bonesaw]

So are you voting Hydro or Solid to rev to 8500?

Depends on your budget and what you plan on doing with the car. Is it a street car? Drag? Road race? ???

[need_a_VR6]

Street car, hydro and keep the revs down. Race car, do solid. Its that simple.

[Sycoticmynd29]

Depends on your budget and what you plan on doing with the car. Is it a street car? Drag? Road race? ???

Street car, hydro and keep the revs down. Race car, do solid. Its that simple.

Going to be a daily that sees the track.

Why keep it hydro if its a street car?

[bonesaw]

Hydro is drive the car. its that simple. Solid may need to be adjusted, rechecked, re shimmed every X amount of miles.

[frechem]

There is no need to go solid given your intentions for the car.

[Sycoticmynd29]

Motor that is currently in the car decided to develop a healthy case of rod knock.

Awesome.

Waiting for room at my friend's shop, then checking the cylinder walls.

Clean cylinders and I'll be replacing what ever internals I need to.

Not clean cylinders and I'll be putting in another ABA.


Huge pain the my ass, but I already have the other engine, so this is more a matter of time to get it done than it is cost to get it done.

[Sycoticmynd29]

So I'm trying to buy another car.

My mk2 is way too unreliable and I have way too big of a project to consider keeping it as my daily, and regardless if the motor in the mk2 is shot or not, I would need a second car eventually anyway, just so I'd have something while doing body work and bigger parts of the project. Currently I have an opportunity to pick up a 2000 GTI 1.8t with low mileage, adult owned, well maintained, and in over all good shape, for the awesome price of $2,500. So that's what I'm hoping for in the meantime.

I'm also trying to make up my mind with how to proceed with this. It's pretty clear I don't know enough now to really build this motor as well as I want this motor built. I also have a bunch of other things going on which require my financial attention in places other than my car, so I currently don't have the funds to build the motor I want to.

I am kinda leaning towards rethinking the project all together. I still want a high revving, high compression motor on ITB's, but as we talked about earlier in this thread, the ABA may not be the best base for it. I kind of want to look into the other options as far as starting point go, to see if there is something better out there that will make the same kind of power with less strain on the motor.

In the meantime, I would assemble the 16v ABA I have already, throw some cams in it, get a chip, and run that while I do other things to the car, such as the body work. It will be a much cheaper build (I have almost everything already) and will allow me to continue saving up money for the real build, as well as get some of the much needed body work done to my car.