Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 35 of 43

    Thread: Vettel. A man coping with the after Championship years...

    1. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Paxton, IL
      Posts
      4,908
      Vehicles
      '04 Bugatti wagon, '85 V65 Sabre
      04-03-2012 03:56 PM #1
      Nice article written about Vettel and how he might struggle with an uncompetitive car after dominating with the fastest car on the grid.

      Quote Originally Posted by PortalF1.com
      Is Vettel's temper a problem?

      There is no doubt that Sebastian Vettel is an exceptionally talented driver, and a deserving double world champion. His prodigious skill has taken him to victory in more than a quarter of the races he has contested, and won him two world championships after just four full seasons in Formula 1. Those statistics paint a formidable picture of the sport's youngest world champion - and yet, throughout his career he has been plauged with questions.

      The first (one that is asked of all drivers as they make their way into the top flight) was simply whether he had what it takes to win. He answered that one pretty emphatically by taking pole and dominant victory at the rain-soaked 2008 Italian Grand Prix, still Scuderia Toro Rosso's only triumph to date. Having topped the rostrum once, the query naturally became whether he was world champion material. He responded by fighting for the title in his first year with Red Bull, narrowly winning it in his second and then utterly dominating it his third. Stunned critics announced that this was all well and good, but it seemed his strategy was to lead from the front - could he actually race wheel-to-wheel? And in September last year, as he powered past Fernando Alonso at nearly two hundred miles per hour with two wheels tearing up the Monza turf, it became very apparent that he can do that too.

      But now, a new cloud hangs over Vettel's head. Having got to the front and never looked back, can he cope with being second best? It's easy to scoff at the idea of self-implosion, but the fact is that since he reached the summit of the sport, nobody has really challenged him. He has been the best driver at the best team, and that's only going to produce one result. This year though, Red Bull's rivals have stepped up a gear - and the boyish smile has all but gone from Sebastian's face. He's a driver who wears his emotions for all to see, and they've got the better of him more than once.

      When he's winning, there's no nicer man in the paddock than Vettel. When he's not, he has the tendency to become hot-headed. In 2010, we saw things occasionally go wrong for the German. In Turkey he clashed with team-mate Mark Webber, and retired from the race. Walking away from the car, he pointed to his head and wound his finger on three occasions as if to question the Australian's sanity. A few months later as he served a drive-through penalty in Hungary, he shook his fist at race control before emerging behind his team-mate and demanding "How the f*** is Mark in front now? How is that possible?" Two events on in Italy, he felt a temporary loss in power on the back straight and immediately radioed his team, openly cursing them before his woes subsided.

      Even in 2011, when things were going his way, we saw occasional glimpses of the Jekyll and Hyde character in the cockpit. In practice for the Korean Grand Prix, Toro Rosso stablemate Jaime Alguersuari held the Red Bull driver up in the final sector, causing Vettel to shake both fists at the Spaniard. In Abu Dhabi, with both titles easily sown up, he retired with puncture damage - and punched the steering wheel in dismay. And then, in the second race of 2012, his race was ruined when he collided with backmarker Narain Karthikeyan and his tyre deflated. He later stuck his middle finger up twice at the HRT driver, before proceeding to the press area and calling the Indian an "idiot" and a "gherkin".

      It's easy to see these occasional outbursts as a simple overflow of passion in the heat of battle - as they indeed are. But compare Vettel's reaction to that of Jenson Button, who met a similar fate having collided with Karthikeyan and finishing fourteenth. The Briton later apologised, telling reporters that he could "only laugh" at the state of his race - whilst in the same press pen, Vettel was steaming. His response evoked memories of Hamilton's "maybe it's because I'm black" debacle in Monaco last year, and that's not where the similarities end. Both men appear prone to a form of F1 bipolar, extreme happiness when on top but melancholy and anger when not. What Vettel must avoid is letting his head drop, and consequentially suffering the sort of a frustration-fuelled season of incidents Hamilton endured last year.

      Nobody's claiming that Vettel is anything other than a brilliant racing driver. But he's also a human being - and he has flaws. He in particular seems to find it difficult to cope with any obstacles which appear in his pursuit of perfection. Having reigned supreme for some time now, it will be interesting to see how he deals with a less competitive car. If he can keep his head, then he can still compete for a third consecutive title - but if his temper gets the better of him, then he will lose not only points, but respect.
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    2. Member 24vEngineer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 27th, 2007
      Location
      SLOW Cal
      Posts
      1,541
      Vehicles
      2004 Audi S4, 08 Wolfy
      04-03-2012 05:52 PM #2
      KFZ,

      Please, let's not get this madness started again and get yet another thread locked.... That being said, Button's is definitely more reserved and humble than Vettel (and hamilton). It will be interesting to see if Vettel can fight to the top step of the podium with a less than incredible car. I would like to see how he would handle being out qualified and beaten by Webber this season, assuming DM allows that.

    3. 04-03-2012 08:24 PM #3
      Source: UK

      nough said.

    4. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2007
      Location
      Vancouver, BC
      Posts
      12,070
      Vehicles
      An imaginary one
      04-03-2012 11:29 PM #4
      Funny how it doesn't seem to have occurred to the writer that Vettel's passion for winning and performing at his best is part of the reason for his meteoric success. The same can be said for many others. Schumacher was far from being a dapper gentleman during his competitive years at Ferrari, Alonso is far from being calm-minded, Hamilton isn't afraid to let anyone else know who's an idiot or how he feels something was wrong or unjust... The list goes on for miles.

      For what it's worth, Button has his moments as well, despite the writer's implications that he's as cool as a cucumber (see what I did there?).

      "What is he doing!?" after colliding with Hamilton in Montreal; “We might as well f***ing go home as say that. I mean, Jesus Christ guys, let’s not make it too negative.” when probed about how far behind he'd fallen in the title race in 2011; and when asked about Hamilton and Massa coming together, "I don’t give a f***. I don’t want to be asked again. It is doing my head in. If you want to interview me, fine, but I don’t want to be asked about Lewis again.”

      You can easily make a list like this for virtually every driver, especially the successful ones.

      *shrug*

      The day racing drivers become sterile robots incapable or not allowed to express emotion is the day I quit watching and caring about the sport.
      Last edited by nickthaskater; 04-03-2012 at 11:31 PM.

    5. 04-03-2012 11:39 PM #5
      The day racing drivers become sterile robots incapable to express emotion is the day I quit watching and caring about the sport.
      [cough] Kimi [cough]

    6. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2007
      Location
      Vancouver, BC
      Posts
      12,070
      Vehicles
      An imaginary one
      04-04-2012 12:02 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Baby Schu View Post
      [cough] Kimi [cough]
      Kimi expresses emotions, just in a way different to most others (though he can be vocal as well). I love Kimi; he doesn't give a f*ck about anything other than driving and enjoying life.

      Kimi getting emotional:







      And shrugging it off




    7. 04-04-2012 10:14 AM #7
      we're only 2 races in this year. RBR could bounce back in a second.

      on the other vettel did seem much more hot headed lately, but same could be said of 99% off all race drivers

    8. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Paxton, IL
      Posts
      4,908
      Vehicles
      '04 Bugatti wagon, '85 V65 Sabre
      04-04-2012 10:35 AM #8
      Couldn't help but notice Vettel's comments at the 3:14 mark.
      I swear i'm not searching for this. It just falls into my lap!

      http://www.motorsport.com/f1/video/m...2/?s=2&id=2403
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    9. Senior Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 16th, 1999
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      20,118
      Vehicles
      '01 B5.5 wagon, '81 Scirocco, '04 FXDWG and too many A1,2, & 3 cars to remember. '93 Miata for S&G
      04-04-2012 10:59 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      Couldn't help but notice Vettel's comments at the 3:14 mark.
      I swear i'm not searching for this. It just falls into my lap!

      http://www.motorsport.com/f1/video/m...2/?s=2&id=2403

      No, no, no kfz, you've got it wrong. You absolutely should give someone that you're racing against room. But passing a gherkin that's 5 seconds off the pace is not 'racing' him, so he deserves NOTHING (well, except for your middle finger).
      Quote Originally Posted by MRVW00
      my GF's love to show me their t!ts....and I like to motorboat them so much they call me Chris Craft...

    10. 04-04-2012 12:02 PM #10
      Hold up... A thread was locked? Werd?

      The fact that threads get locked because of Vettel panty bunching is hilarious...

      I've said this repeatedly.... Vettel skills is inextricably part of the car... Give him a dud...he performs as one...

    11. 04-04-2012 12:53 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Kidstar View Post
      I've said this repeatedly.... Vettel skills is inextricably part of the car... Give him a dud...he performs as one...
      how come he destroyed webber last year though. same car....

    12. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2007
      Location
      Vancouver, BC
      Posts
      12,070
      Vehicles
      An imaginary one
      04-04-2012 01:33 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by robhurlburt View Post
      how come he destroyed webber last year though. same car....
      Also, I wasn't aware that finishing 2nd after starting in 6th in Melbourne qualified as a "dud" of a performance, lol.

      He was on his way to pulling a similar result in Malaysia before the incident.

      There's no reason that I can see to think that RBR and Vettel have suddenly crumbled to mid-field runners; after all, it's not like they/he didn't have any difficult races last year or the year prior, and they still found a way to win the titles in spite of those.

    13. 04-04-2012 01:35 PM #13
      I've said this repeatedly.... Vettel skills is inextricably part of the car... Give him a dud...he performs as one...
      still not sure if srs.....

    14. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Paxton, IL
      Posts
      4,908
      Vehicles
      '04 Bugatti wagon, '85 V65 Sabre
      04-04-2012 04:45 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by robhurlburt View Post
      how come he destroyed webber last year though. same car....
      O.k., so he's better than Webber.
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    15. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Paxton, IL
      Posts
      4,908
      Vehicles
      '04 Bugatti wagon, '85 V65 Sabre
      04-04-2012 04:47 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Racer View Post
      No, no, no kfz, you've got it wrong. You absolutely should give someone that you're racing against room. But passing a gherkin that's 5 seconds off the pace is not 'racing' him, so he deserves NOTHING (well, except for your middle finger).
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    16. 04-04-2012 05:00 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      O.k., so he's better than Webber.
      put any F1 driver in place of webber and you don't think vettel would give them a run for their money?

    17. 04-04-2012 05:13 PM #17
      All in favor to rename the "Open Wheel Section" to the "Biased Button Fanclub" say "I"

    18. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Paxton, IL
      Posts
      4,908
      Vehicles
      '04 Bugatti wagon, '85 V65 Sabre
      04-04-2012 05:27 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by robhurlburt View Post
      put any F1 driver in place of webber and you don't think vettel would give them a run for their money?
      Hmmm, well let's see. Webber is about as good as Felipe. Vettel would destroy Felipe in an equal RB, too.
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    19. Senior Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 16th, 1999
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      20,118
      Vehicles
      '01 B5.5 wagon, '81 Scirocco, '04 FXDWG and too many A1,2, & 3 cars to remember. '93 Miata for S&G
      04-04-2012 07:03 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      Hmmm, well let's see. Webber is about as good as Felipe. Vettel would destroy Felipe in an equal RB, too.
      Uh, no.
      Quote Originally Posted by MRVW00
      my GF's love to show me their t!ts....and I like to motorboat them so much they call me Chris Craft...

    20. 04-05-2012 10:04 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      Hmmm, well let's see. Webber is about as good as Felipe. Vettel would destroy Felipe in an equal RB, too.
      webber would run circles around felipe

    21. Member wiredvw's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 17th, 2006
      Location
      Minneapolis, MN
      Posts
      2,463
      Vehicles
      2010 VW Passat B6 Wagon
      04-05-2012 10:20 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      Hmmm, well let's see. Webber is about as good as Felipe. Vettel would destroy Felipe in an equal RB, too.
      Not even close. You are right that Vettel would destroy Massa regardless of the car.

    22. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Paxton, IL
      Posts
      4,908
      Vehicles
      '04 Bugatti wagon, '85 V65 Sabre
      04-05-2012 06:08 PM #22
      I LMAO, not that i really wanna get into Webber vs. Massa, but what did Webber ever accomplish before he got into a competitive RB???
      Have you guys lost your mind? Did you all forget?
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    23. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2007
      Location
      Vancouver, BC
      Posts
      12,070
      Vehicles
      An imaginary one
      04-06-2012 05:56 AM #23
      Vettel stands his ground

      Quote Originally Posted by PlanetF1
      Sebastian Vettel insists he has nothing to be "ashamed" of after insulting a fellow driver and giving him the finger.

      Clashing with Narain Karthikeyan in the Malaysian Grand Prix, Vettel suffered a puncture and was seen giving the HRT driver the middle finger.

      However, his antics did not stop there.

      Questioned by the media in the immediate aftermath of the rain-interrupted race, Vettel called Karthikeyan a "cucumber" and an "idiot."

      The Indian driver hit back by saying that the 24-year-old German is a "cry baby" before later calling for an end to the verbal sparring.

      But that may not be the end of it as the Red Bull racer has now come out saying he has no reason to feel bad about he said as he was only expressing his emotions.

      "I lost a solid fourth place, so that's obviously disappointing," the reigning World Champion told German newspaper Sport Bild.

      "Sometimes you let some emotion show, and I don't think someone should be ashamed about that."

      http://planetf1.com/news/3213/765109...shamed-Of-Rant
      I'd say he's dealing with these recent stressors just fine; I'd have been hugely disappointed if he gave in to media pressure and apologized or something.

      Also, lol @ "antics"

    24. 04-06-2012 04:18 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      O.k., so he's better than Webber.
      Thank you.... So he's better than 1/2 the grid... Y'all acting like Webbo is a "winner"

    25. 04-06-2012 04:24 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by robhurlburt View Post
      put any F1 driver in place of webber and you don't think vettel would give them a run for their money?
      Ok...Kimi? Failonso? Hammo? MS? The Berg?

      See where this is going?

      ...So Webber? The dude is a joke! He typifies, the "all car" performance category of the previous 3 seasons! His only saving grace from not becoming a Rubens was that balls scratching 1st win!

      Y'all are buggin!

    26. 04-06-2012 04:27 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by robhurlburt View Post
      how come he destroyed webber last year though. same car....
      LOL... He did...that's cause Webbo sucks!

    27. 04-06-2012 04:29 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Baby Schu View Post
      still not sure if srs.....
      Que!?


    28. Senior Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 16th, 1999
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      20,118
      Vehicles
      '01 B5.5 wagon, '81 Scirocco, '04 FXDWG and too many A1,2, & 3 cars to remember. '93 Miata for S&G
      04-06-2012 11:04 PM #28
      Yo Kid, you do know there's a multi-quote function, right?
      Quote Originally Posted by MRVW00
      my GF's love to show me their t!ts....and I like to motorboat them so much they call me Chris Craft...

    29. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Paxton, IL
      Posts
      4,908
      Vehicles
      '04 Bugatti wagon, '85 V65 Sabre
      04-07-2012 10:15 AM #29
      Yo, i don't think i know how to either!
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    30. Member wiredvw's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 17th, 2006
      Location
      Minneapolis, MN
      Posts
      2,463
      Vehicles
      2010 VW Passat B6 Wagon
      04-07-2012 08:12 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Kidstar View Post
      Thank you.... So he's better than 1/2 the grid... Y'all acting like Webbo is a "winner"
      No where did I say I think webber is a winner, but he is better than Massa. Massa has never from what I can recall take an average or below average car and make it work. This yr magnifies that.

    31. Member wiredvw's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 17th, 2006
      Location
      Minneapolis, MN
      Posts
      2,463
      Vehicles
      2010 VW Passat B6 Wagon
      04-07-2012 08:18 PM #31
      Since I can't edit my response on my tablet I'll continue...

      Webber at least can bring home the car in most cases. Again this is relative to Massa. If any of the top 10 drivers were in the same car as Vettel they would be giving him a much harder run for his money. Webber fills his role well for RBR as Massa has typically done at Ferrari except for this yr.

    32. 04-09-2012 09:45 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Racer View Post
      Yo Kid, you do know there's a multi-quote function, right?
      oops!!

    33. 04-09-2012 09:46 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by wiredvw View Post
      No where did I say I think webber is a winner, but he is better than Massa. Massa has never from what I can recall take an average or below average car and make it work. This yr magnifies that.
      Not you bro... Dont fall for that okey doke...

    34. 04-09-2012 09:48 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by wiredvw View Post
      Since I can't edit my response on my tablet I'll continue...

      Webber at least can bring home the car in most cases. Again this is relative to Massa. If any of the top 10 drivers were in the same car as Vettel they would be giving him a much harder run for his money. Webber fills his role well for RBR as Massa has typically done at Ferrari except for this yr.
      Sound argument... And I'd dare say, Massa has shown he can drive to the front of a championship, more so than Webber has done. Webbo has been at the front by default of the car..

    35. Member wiredvw's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 17th, 2006
      Location
      Minneapolis, MN
      Posts
      2,463
      Vehicles
      2010 VW Passat B6 Wagon
      04-09-2012 11:10 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Kidstar
      Not you bro... Dont fall for that okey doke...
      I was half in the bag drinking some beers on vacation...I'm surprised I typed something relatively coherent. That goes for my other post as well...

      Quote Originally Posted by Kidstar View Post
      Sound argument... And I'd dare say, Massa has shown he can drive to the front of a championship, more so than Webber has done. Webbo has been at the front by default of the car..
      You could say the same about Massa's career. He's at the front with a great car, at the rear with a bad car. Massa certainly has shown he can be fast and stay with the big boys, but I still think that Webber can do more with an average car than Massa. Doesn't make Webber a winner, but at least a better driver than Massa.

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •