Question for those that haven't been riding since birth.

[miscbrah]

LOL state a differing opinion and everyone gets all butt hurt. I even said the MSF is a good resource, however I do not believe it to be the be-all end-all some people tout it as. Familiarizing yourself with basic techniques (such as the front vs. back brake, noted above) should be common sense.

I have taken the course, only to comply with the state requirements. The MSF didn't exist when your grandfather hopped on a motorcycle for the first time, and kids aren't sent before getting on a dirt bike.

Heck, fans used to be made so that you could fit your whole hand through them... and your parents probably have all of their fingers.

[romano258]

My advice to the OP is to go for it. Take a class if you can, have a buddy teach you if it's not an option. Read books, get further training, etc.... Just go out and give it a go basically. You may like it, you might not, but you'll never know until you try. But don't get a 70s UJM as your first bike. If you really dig the look, get a use Triumph Bonnie instead.

[nhbubba]

LOL state a differing opinion and everyone gets all butt hurt. I even said the MSF is a good resource, however I do not believe it to be the be-all end-all some people tout it as.

Read again, or stop hunting for a fight, whichever you are up to.

Nobody called it the 'be-all' of anything. It's a great place for the OP, or any rider, to start.

The MSF solves way more problems than it creates. It's worth the money, worth the time. Just do it and then move on. Hell, you'll probably get an insurance discount.

[Spinnaker]

That pic makes my skin crawl

[blue70beetle]

I have taken the course, only to comply with the state requirements. The MSF didn't exist when your grandfather hopped on a motorcycle for the first time, and kids aren't sent before getting on a dirt bike.

fwiw, people texting, eating a cheeseburger, and putting on makeup while pretending to drive didn't exist then either. Roads haven't gotten easier to navigate since then...and there are a lot more cars (operated by people who are both more distracted and more impatient) than there were in years past.

I don't get all bent out of shape about safety, but I do think there's a lot of value in being sensible...

[pknopp]

I don't fit your description as I've been riding on the road since I was 15 and got my first two wheeled motorized vehicle years before that.

Get the mid 70's Honda. They are bullet proof. You can get a good starter bike, say a 1975 CB360 in great shape for $800. You should be able to ride one in good shape 3-4 years without doing anything more than a oil change at the start of the season.

The only parts that are expensive on these bikes are the pipes but you can stick all sorts of aftermarket pipes on them that are cheap.

The 360 will stay with traffic just fine. It's a mid sized bike so it's easy to handle for a new rider. Their brakes were leap years ahead of the bikes of the recent past. I ride pre-1977 bikes exclusively and I'm never left stranded. (that is, with the Japanese bikes)

I agree with those who state that taking a riders course if you've never rode before is a good idea. Also, never ride in shorts or sandals. Not only are you asking for trouble, you look really stupid.

[Mk1Racer]

Get the mid 70's Honda. They are bullet proof. You can get a good starter bike, say a 1975 CB360 in great shape for $800. You should be able to ride one in good shape 3-4 years without doing anything more than a oil change at the start of the season.

.

While I agree that they are reliable, you're talking about a bike that's over 35 years old. If it hasn't been ridden semi-regularly, and maintained, you're in for some surprises. Gummed up carbs, dried out gaskets and seals, etc. And I don't know of any bike that you can ride for 3-4 years w/o doing anything other than an annual oil change. Well maybe if you ride <1000 miles a year, but still. Brakes and tires do wear out w/ normal riding and proper maint. As I said 70's bikes are cool, but not what I'd recommend for a first bike for a new rider.

[blue70beetle]

And I don't know of any bike that you can ride for 3-4 years w/o doing anything other than an annual oil change. Well maybe if you ride <1000 miles a year, but still. Brakes and tires do wear out w/ normal riding and proper maint.

I would agree that there will probably be other maintenance required, but I think the point was these are very reliable, so only minimal, infrequent repairs would be required.

[Spinnaker]

A used Bonnie would be more coin but has the elements of style with modern reliability.

[NashGTI]

I do not agree that carburetors are inherently troublesome. They gave good service for about a 100 years. I have two bikes with carburetors; both over 25 years old. Each has never had the carburetors cleaned and both start without issues in the Spring after Winter storage. Unleaded gasoline and storing with fresh gasoline in the Fall makes this possible.

Much has been said so I will add a thought that is unique and possibly unpopular. You should not need 75 or more horsepower to enjoy a ride on a bike. 40 horsepower will easily carry you down a freeway at 70 mpg for as long as you can sit on a bike. I graduated from a bicycle; have not forgotten that and still love not having to pedal.

Newer carburetors function just fine, basically anything with CV that are properly adjusted will run perfectly and not inhibit your ability to learn to right. However, trying to jump onto a CB650 or CB750 Honda with slide carbs is not an intelligent way to learn to ride. They're very touchy at small throttle angles.



For what it's worth, my first time on a motorcycle was at 23, now 29 and still love to ride. I don't think it's age that causes people to give up on riding, it's easy for people to get a bike just because it sounds like fun at the moment. I remember a neighbors son having a series of Hondas growing up with I was <10 and thinking that just looked like the coolest thing ever. It's more about the long term interest than the age you finally get into it.

[sucking chest wound]

12k miles a year on a bike is impressive. Live in Cali or the South?

Massachusetts. I ride all year long. Snowy days, and days under 30 degrees are really the only days I consider off-limits.

[nhbubba]

I think a lot of people quit riding because of climate, family pressure (read: wife says so), or a close call. Traffic is nuckin' futz these days. In the end they just don't end up using the bike as much as they figured they would. At some point it becomes tough to justify the tires and insurance and upkeep if you only ride the damned thing 3-4 times a year or something.

This is why I ride something I can commute on. If I can't ride it to work, I won't ride it enough to justify having it.. in my mind.

[JWoody]

I started last year when I was 36. Took the MSF a month or so before my 37th birthday. Its been about 9-10 months or so with about 5800 miles in the last year on my 1125CR. I'm not so sure I will be getting another Liter bike next go around. Something in the 650-750 range. Perhaps an 848 EVO.

Don't get me wrong, had her up to the limiter enough times in 2nd-5th and enjoyed removing nearly all my chicken strips;about 1/8" left or so. Enjoyed every minute of it even in the heaviest rain and cold weather. Been longing to ride since I was in my late teens early 20's.

My father has me beat though. He started riding HD's at 47 and has ridden across the country several times over the years. My parents have gone just about everywhere on 6 different HD's throughout the years. They are in their late 60's now and he just picked up a new Fat Boy last Fall. Still riding...

-J

[hansrandal]

OP = me exactly 1 year ago. I was 41 last spring and finally pushed myself to do it. Actually my wife did. I have loved but not owned bikes ever since I laid my eyes on my neighbors Honda vfr Interceptor back in 1985. I decided to go the responsible route and take the MFS course which was exactly what I needed. I have always been able to pick up new things very easily such as snow boarding, longboarding etc pretty easily but I felt that I wanted to do it right and I am sure happy that I took the class. Yes, it is a little rudimentary but really gets you in responsible riders state of mind. I picked up a brand new Honda CBR 250r last summer 1 day after the class. Despite all the elbowing by others for going the 250 route I still think it was a smart decision. The bike is as fast around town and up to 70mph as your average car which allowed me to "push it hard" without doing anything outside the scope of the law and the scope of my beginner skills. I am a speed freak and like to push the mechanical limits by nature so this bike has kept me from getting in over my head. I say "go for it". Do it right. Take the class. Get good helmet, jacket, gloves and boots and do a LOT of research on what bike you feel would be best for you NOW for your skills.

[Mk1Racer]

I would agree that there will probably be other maintenance required, but I think the point was these are very reliable, so only minimal, infrequent repairs would be required.

I know it wasn't your post, but you can't tell a new rider that they can by a 35 y/o bike and expect to do nothing to it but change the oil every year for 3-4 years. As I said, you can't expect to do that w/ a brand new bike. I do agree that the old Honda bikes are pretty reliable. Honda makes reliable stuff. Cars, bikes, mowers, quads, etc. It really is hard to go wrong w/ a Honda.

Massachusetts. I ride all year long. Snowy days, and days under 30 degrees are really the only days I consider off-limits.

Excellent. I ride 6k-7k a year, and I think that's a decent amount. But then again, I don't really ride when it is below 40, and I won't intentionally go out when it's raining (mostly because I hate cleaning the bike after riding on wet roads). I have no problem going on a 250-300 mile 'ride to nowhere'. Jump on the bike in the morning and head out. Get back whenever. Rode up to Mass. and back 2 years ago w/ my buddy to look at a bike (he bought it). That was a 550 mile 'cruise'. Only downside was being on 684 in NY. That road SUCKS!!!!!

[pknopp]

While I agree that they are reliable, you're talking about a bike that's over 35 years old. If it hasn't been ridden semi-regularly, and maintained, you're in for some surprises. Gummed up carbs, dried out gaskets and seals, etc. And I don't know of any bike that you can ride for 3-4 years w/o doing anything other than an annual oil change. Well maybe if you ride <1000 miles a year, but still. Brakes and tires do wear out w/ normal riding and proper maint. As I said 70's bikes are cool, but not what I'd recommend for a first bike for a new rider.

And to think, I noted that he buy a good running bike, not one with gummed up carbs. As I also noted great running 70's CB's can be bought for $800. He's a new rider, he said nothing about wanting to make it a full time ride.

You can indeed ride one of these bikes trouble free. I've rode my 63 Honda Dream for two years and other than tires when I got it, I've not done a thing to it. I rode a 75 CB360 for two years that I bought for $700. I did nothing to it. I then sold it for $900.

I would have done the same with the 71 CB750 I bought last year except I was offered more than I was willing to turn down for it. They are very reliable and cheap.

[atomicalex]

This is why I ride something I can commute on.

I would ride it enough anyway, but commuting is much more fun on the bike. And I get some helmet time in as a bonus, instead of just a brain vacation in the cage.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

Get the mid 70's Honda. They are bullet proof. You can get a good starter bike, say a 1975 CB360 in great shape for $800. You should be able to ride one in good shape 3-4 years without doing anything more than a oil change at the start of the season.

While I agree that they are reliable, you're talking about a bike that's over 35 years old. If it hasn't been ridden semi-regularly, and maintained, you're in for some surprises. Gummed up carbs, dried out gaskets and seals, etc. And I don't know of any bike that you can ride for 3-4 years w/o doing anything other than an annual oil change. Well maybe if you ride <1000 miles a year, but still. Brakes and tires do wear out w/ normal riding and proper maint. As I said 70's bikes are cool, but not what I'd recommend for a first bike for a new rider.

I rode a '73 CJ360 for 2 years and did nothing more than change the oil. The idea is not far fetched.

[Mk1Racer]

And to think, I noted that he buy a good running bike, not one with gummed up carbs. As I also noted great running 70's CB's can be bought for $800. He's a new rider, he said nothing about wanting to make it a full time ride.

You can indeed ride one of these bikes trouble free. I've rode my 63 Honda Dream for two years and other than tires when I got it, I've not done a thing to it. I rode a 75 CB360 for two years that I bought for $700. I did nothing to it. I then sold it for $900.

I would have done the same with the 71 CB750 I bought last year except I was offered more than I was willing to turn down for it. They are very reliable and cheap.

I rode a '73 CJ360 for 2 years and did nothing more than change the oil. The idea is not far fetched.

I'll ask both of you the same question, how many miles a year did you ride these bikes?

[pknopp]

The OP stated that he wanted an old Japanese bike to go on a "jaunt" on. To go out and get lost. Not ride every single day to work.

If the OP is interested in an old Japanese bike, that is what he should get as there is nothing worse than getting something you don't really want.

I mainly ride the same way the OP states he wants to. I go on a "jaunt" when I feel like. I take an extended ride when I feel like it and sometimes on nice days, I'll ride to work.

While I certainly can, I do not like to work on what I ride. I like to be able to get on and ride when I feel like it. A once over in the spring is about all I do. Unlike the Brit bikes I've had I never touch the carbs once set. I've added a performance exhaust and still not touched the carbs. Tossed the old air filter and put on a new efficient one. Never touch the carbs.

If the OP decides riding is not for him, he will have no problem getting his $800 back or thereabout. Insurance is cheap. 50-70 mpg. Tires are inexpensive. Just make sure it has solid pipes or be willing to live with aftermarket.

[nhbubba]

I don't know if any of you UJM advocates are speaking of experience from the days of pre-ethanol gas. But the game has changed, in my experience.

The shelf life of the ethanol doped stuff is like 90 days. For most of us in the north, that's easily an off season. Therefore care needs to be taken with the fuel when winterizing. We need to use fuel stabilizers and treatments periodically or the fuel components WILL go to ****. I speak from experience. I managed to gum up the carbs in a motorcycle manufactured in 2001. Old carbs that already have a few decades on them are even easier. (Again, experience: we have a '78 Honda in the family.)

Also, here in rust country, rust takes old bikes out of circulation. Fewer bikes in circulation means fewer people familiar with repairing them. Fewer people stocking parts for them. Fewer people to turn to for advice and help.

So the questions are:
- Can you find a clean 70's UJM from a seller you trust took care of the fuel system?
- If you have troubles, are you sure you can get repairs done or even parts?
- Are you confident you could find a parts bike if you can't find new replacement parts?

Or would you rather have something newer, nearly as cheap, and just as much-or more likely *more*-fun?

That's not to say you have to go EFI. All I'm saying is that I would lean to something from the 90's or early 2000's. Something like an SV, an Kawi EX parallel twin. One of the Suzuki GS bikes (Katana, Bandit, etc). One of the many Honda offerings.

But as always, YMMV.

[pknopp]

Again, if you get a CB in nearly any configuration, parts are easy to get. You can even buy brand spanking new pipes if you wish from the dealer. They are just pricey.

I also noted that the OP should make sure he buys a well running bike. Not one that has sat with old gas in it for 22 years.

I put side cover engine gaskets on my 71 CB750 last year. Not because they were bad but because I simply wanted a look inside. I bought the new gaskets at the Honda dealer. The dealer could no longer get me a key for my 63 Dream and I had to go to a locksmith but I've also not had to actually use it either. Repop headlights are now available for Dreams or it's a fix it yourself deal for $15. CB headlights are just a common headlight.

If the OP hadn't mentioned wanting an old Japanese bike I wouldn't bother, but he stated that is what he wanted and for what it seems like he wants to do, there is no reason why he shouldn't.

There are CB specific forums all over the net. They can tell you exactly how many turns of the screw to set your carbs. (buy one well running and you have plenty of time to learn)

[miscbrah]

I'll ask both of you the same question, how many miles a year did you ride these bikes?

I'm with them on this. The only maintenance my bike required to run safely was a valve clearance adjustments. I did some preventative stuff, just because. 4k miles, through the winter, no issues.

Seen a few UJM's brought back to life in the last year or so. CB750, 10k miles no issues. XS400, 2k miles without anything but a carb cleaning.

[Mk1Racer]

The OP stated that he wanted an old Japanese bike to go on a "jaunt" on. To go out and get lost. Not ride every single day to work.

If the OP is interested in an old Japanese bike, that is what he should get as there is nothing worse than getting something you don't really want.

I mainly ride the same way the OP states he wants to. I go on a "jaunt" when I feel like. I take an extended ride when I feel like it and sometimes on nice days, I'll ride to work.

While I certainly can, I do not like to work on what I ride. I like to be able to get on and ride when I feel like it. A once over in the spring is about all I do. Unlike the Brit bikes I've had I never touch the carbs once set. I've added a performance exhaust and still not touched the carbs. Tossed the old air filter and put on a new efficient one. Never touch the carbs.

If the OP decides riding is not for him, he will have no problem getting his $800 back or thereabout. Insurance is cheap. 50-70 mpg. Tires are inexpensive. Just make sure it has solid pipes or be willing to live with aftermarket.

He also said it was going to be his first bike. I don't know many people where their first bike was their last bike (unless they stopped riding after the first bike). I've had several bikes over the years.

I don't doubt that you can find well maintained, nice examples of mid-sized 70's UJM's, that will be dead reliable. But you're going to have to look harder for one than you will a 90's mid-sized UJM. If you look at my original post in this thread, you'll see that I agree that the 70's bikes are cool.

Don't get me wrong, 70's bikes are very cool (and seem to be all the rage these days), but give your new hobby a fighting chance. There's lots to learn when you're just starting out, don't let 40+ y/o technology sabotage that. You want to be riding now, not tinkering w/ an old bike, or worrying that you may get stuck somewhere. Pick up an early 90's standard and learn how to ride. Once you've got most of the basics out of the way, start looking for the kind of bike that you want.

Being new to bikes, the OP isn't going to know what to look for in a 70's UJM. Given the popularity of them, you've got people dragging them out of barns and garages, cleaning them up a bit, and getting decent money for them. Unless the OP has a friend that knows these bikes, he could easily wind up w/ something that may look good, but have hidden issues. That's not to say that that possibility doesn't exist w/ a 90's bike, I just think it's lower.

If the OP could find a nice 70's CB450 or XS500 in good shape, that's well maintained, I'd certainly recommend buying it. There are just less of them to pick from than a mid-90's CB500/GS500E/SR500 in good condition. And the price is going to be about the same. I'd probably go w/ the Honda or Suzuki over the Yamaha, just because they're twins rather than a single. I think either of those is a great first bike, and should have less issues than their older brothers.

[pknopp]

He also said it was going to be his first bike. I don't know many people where their first bike was their last bike (unless they stopped riding after the first bike). I've had several bikes over the years.

O.K.

I don't doubt that you can find well maintained, nice examples of mid-sized 70's UJM's, that will be dead reliable. But you're going to have to look harder for one than you will a 90's mid-sized UJM. If you look at my original post in this thread, you'll see that I agree that the 70's bikes are cool.

They are easy to find. The bigger point is the OP (who has seemed to have maybe changed his mind about wanting to ride) said he wanted an older bike. If he said he wanted a newer sport bike, I wouldn't try and lead him in a different direction.

Being new to bikes, the OP isn't going to know what to look for in a 70's UJM. Given the popularity of them, you've got people dragging them out of barns and garages, cleaning them up a bit, and getting decent money for them. Unless the OP has a friend that knows these bikes, he could easily wind up w/ something that may look good, but have hidden issues. That's not to say that that possibility doesn't exist w/ a 90's bike, I just think it's lower.

If the OP could find a nice 70's CB450 or XS500 in good shape, that's well maintained, I'd certainly recommend buying it. There are just less of them to pick from than a mid-90's CB500/GS500E/SR500 in good condition. And the price is going to be about the same. I'd probably go w/ the Honda or Suzuki over the Yamaha, just because they're twins rather than a single. I think either of those is a great first bike, and should have less issues than their older brothers.

I have no idea.....Are mid 90's bikes giong for less than 1K?

http://youngstown.craigslist.org/mcy/2929887852.html

[nhbubba]

Awe!

My first was a '78 CB400. Had a lotta good times on that thing. Ours was orange.

Stay the hell away from the Interstate with that thing. The bow wake off an 18 wheeler is deadly when you're on something that small and under powered. That bike is TALL too. I say starting on that thing is part of why I feel so at home on my new V-Strom.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

I'll ask both of you the same question, how many miles a year did you ride these bikes?

About 8,000-9,000 miles. 350 mile weekends (in spring/fall) and some short daily commutes

[pknopp]

Awe!

My first was a '78 CB400. Had a lotta good times on that thing. Ours was orange.

Stay the hell away from the Interstate with that thing. The bow wake off an 18 wheeler is deadly when you're on something that small and under powered. That bike is TALL too. I say starting on that thing is part of why I feel so at home on my new V-Strom.

Yes, the small displacement bikes do not belong on the interstate but I'd recommend a new rider stay off them anyway. I've rode for years and don't care for riding on the interstate.

[nhbubba]

I've rode for years and find it the most direct way to work.

[pknopp]

I've rode for years and find it the most direct way to work.

Sure. LOL

[Mk1Racer]

About 8,000-9,000 miles. 350 mile weekends (in spring/fall) and some short daily commutes

You put 8k-9k miles a year on a '73 CJ360???

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

You put 8k-9k miles a year on a '73 CJ360???

Yes. Spring and fall weekly commutes between college and my home town, mixed with light weekly riding while on campus and during the summer.

My buddy did the same thing with his '74CB360...better bike than my CJ.

[pknopp]

You put 8k-9k miles a year on a '73 CJ360???

You can but........ If someone lived in Southern California and wanted daily transportation I wouldn't recommend an old bike. Again though, I'll note that this isn't what the OP stated.

If one was of the mind though.......it's not all that hard to find a 6,000 mile mid 70's bike for relatively little money. It's not riding that is hard on a bike, it's sitting. One could ride such a bike with relatively little work for 2-3 years. Granted 30,000 miles and these old bikes are getting pretty tired. For what they can be bought for it's not cost efficient to completely rebuild one (unless you are talking 750).

You sell it for parts and get another for $1000. Super cheap, fun transportation.

[Mk1Racer]

Yes. Spring and fall weekly commutes between college and my home town, mixed with light weekly riding while on campus and during the summer.

My buddy did the same thing with his '74CB360...better bike than my CJ.

Impressive, to say the least. That kind of mileage is stout on a cruiser (or it means you have no job and just tour all the time), much less on a little buzz bomb like a 360 twin.

You can but........ If someone lived in Southern California and wanted daily transportation I wouldn't recommend an old bike. Again though, I'll note that this isn't what the OP stated.

If one was of the mind though.......it's not all that hard to find a 6,000 mile mid 70's bike for relatively little money. It's not riding that is hard on a bike, it's sitting. One could ride such a bike with relatively little work for 2-3 years. Granted 30,000 miles and these old bikes are getting pretty tired. For what they can be bought for it's not cost efficient to completely rebuild one (unless you are talking 750).

You sell it for parts and get another for $1000. Super cheap, fun transportation.

Just for the record, I scoured the local craigslist in my area, and couldn't find any 70's UJM's in the $500 - $1500 price range w/ the exception of a '74 or '75 Hondamatic. Did see several mid 80's bikes in the 450-550cc range though. And yeah, I guess the mid-90's bikes are a bit more.

[turbinepowered]

Just for the record, I scoured the local craigslist in my area, and couldn't find any 70's UJM's in the $500 - $1500 price range w/ the exception of a '74 or '75 Hondamatic. Did see several mid 80's bikes in the 450-550cc range though. And yeah, I guess the mid-90's bikes are a bit more.

This. So far this forum is pretty poor at ballpark estimating the average price of something in my area. Those 70s bikes in my area that are <$1k LOOK like basket cases even from photographs. Most are "does not run" or "needs work" descriptions, too.