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    Thread: Golf R vs EVO MR video

    1. Member
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      04-04-2012 05:12 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by keihin View Post
      Sideways is not the fastest way through a corner, nor the only way to have fun on at the track.
      maybe, but it's the best way to have fun at the track.

      I enjoyed that video, thanks Jason!

    2. Member Wermz's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 05:30 PM #27
      This is the most disappointing thing I have seen about this car. I am buying it to ultimately track it, if i cannot simply turn off the ESC then it is useless to me.
      Φ ¿╤Æ₧φ≈ ™

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      04-04-2012 05:59 PM #28
      A few comments:

      - The Evo X MR or SE Touring is a stupid car. The GSR is the only Evo for this generation.

      - Nevertheless he totally nailed the Evo. He gets it, the good and the bad. Nothing else to say.

      - The lack of ESC defeat on the R is just ****ing stupid. We as R fans and owners shouldn't be making weak sauce excuses for it. Its just a big honking ridiculous problem.

      Thankfully, I won't be tracking the R as its just too expensive for me to risk on the track. That was actually true for me about the Evo X as well. I'll go buy a high mile VIII with a bunch of mods and put that on the track instead and enjoy the R with ESC enabled, with its wonderful demeanor on public roads.

    4. Member Tailwagger's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 06:12 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by 2ManyCars View Post
      Meanwhile, seriously, no ESP OFF on the US-spec Golf R? I wanted to crash that thing into a wall because of it. Truth is my eyes welled up with tears when I handed in the keys to that Golf R. But I won't buy one until VW gives the option to fully disable ESP.

      Hope you guys enjoyed the video. And more importantly - enjoy your Rs. I'm jealous.

      Jason
      Senior Editor / Wicked Witch of the West
      Automobile Magazine
      Great review, truly enjoyed it.

      I can appreciate your POV, but here's the real question. If the ESP was fully disabled, is the R faster around the track? Or is it just that in this car, driving rally style, throwing the car into the corner and powering through simply is off the table as a option? I've yet to see anyone on these pages talk about ponying up the 10Gs for some Ohlins and heading to the Maine woods. So while it might be a valid criticism that some of the fun has been capped, its not at all clear to me, particularly given the admittedly flawed C&D track testing results, that the car's lap times are in any real sense compromised on track given the inability to defeat ESP.

      I'd agree with you that its a shame we won't get the opportunity to explore the car fully unless someday we find a way to defeat ESP. But in my case, the car likely will never see a track. I have a dedicated car for that purpose, and frankly no fresh from the factory road with or without ESP will ever be comparable in the slightest to it. And so, the first half of your review is spot on and all that really matters to me. Personally, while I fully understand the desire to acquire a single road car capable serious track work, in the end I've yet to meet a car that has reasonably managed the compromises and been good enough at either.

      It would be nice to make our own decisions on ESP enablement, but I think we all know that for better or worse those days are rapidly drawing to a close here in the US. I suspect that in the very near future those who decide that nannie disabling is a make or break decision will have to be satisfied with buying used.

      Again, terrific review. After watching I'd simply suggest you buy the R and use the extra 8Gs for a beat up spec Miata.
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    5. Member Gyntry's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 06:17 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by slidemx5 View Post
      Apr's working on a software fix for this. Then smiles for everyone
      Where'd this info come from?
      ClearWaterDubs Web -- CWD on Vortex

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      04-04-2012 06:38 PM #31
      Ok, I finally watched the video, the only faults, I see in his review is he compares price on out the door and not MSRP, or the fact that I picked up my same spec'd EVO for 37k in Nov of 09 the week they released the touring in the US and that Mitsubishi doesn't make microwaves or if they do they don't sell them in the US. Is the interior on the R nicer looking and of better quality than the EVO, he'll yes, but with the leather interior in the EVO it's definitely nicer looking than the cloth, and the car is a joy to drive on such a different level than any other car at its price, you quickly forget to complain and hands down Mitsubishi's navigation system is a lot better than the one that is available in the R. The mfi in the EVO is full color and tells you exactly which wheels are getting how much power. I agree that the manual in the R is more enjoyable to drive than the dual clutch sst in the EVO, but the EVO's transmission is technically better and can shift faster than any man ever could, it is truly one of the best dcts out there at any price, but IMO any dct leaves you somewhat unattached to the vehicle and I think it is safe to say, that we all here what to be completely involved when driving a car.

      I think the fact that I drive an R now and not an EVO says more about me than it does about either car.

    7. Member AAC Welder's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 06:41 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Gyntry View Post
      Where'd this info come from?
      I'd like to know as well. I want the software as soon as its available.
      Engineer @ TriMech Solutions | Certified SolidWorks Expert
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    8. Member Alive By time's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 07:46 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 2ManyCars View Post
      Oh the hell I was! I knew it was there. The Euro R I drove last year didn't have it. This one did. Night, meet day. Day, meet night.

      In theory, fake engine sounds suck. In reality, they're a function of modern cars being so quiet when you're cruising. I'd rather have real, mechanical engine noise, but that makes it hard to sell cars... so manufacturers play tricks like this. (BMW's doing it on the N20-powered (4-cylinder) Z3 and, more famously, on the M5. Don't blame 'em - I unplugged the speakers on the M5 and it was way too quiet.)

      I don't mind the Golf R's SoundAktor. What I mind is the stupid Beetle Turbo and Jetta GLI, which make 5-cylinder noises. Still haven't gotten an explanation from VWoA on that.

      Meanwhile, seriously, no ESP OFF on the US-spec Golf R? I wanted to crash that thing into a wall because of it. Truth is my eyes welled up with tears when I handed in the keys to that Golf R. But I won't buy one until VW gives the option to fully disable ESP.

      Hope you guys enjoyed the video. And more importantly - enjoy your Rs. I'm jealous.

      Jason
      Senior Editor / Wicked Witch of the West
      Automobile Magazine
      I only said that because of how stoked you were on the sound. You didn't mention it in the video which made me think you didn't know. It was a cool comparison though would you have picked a euro spec R over the MR?
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    9. Member phastman's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 08:19 PM #34
      Fun review, Jason. Glad you ended by dinging the R for the non-defeatable ESP. Hopefully that will galvanize VW to release a software update or at least the tuning market will.

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      04-04-2012 09:10 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      I can appreciate your POV, but here's the real question. If the ESP was fully disabled, is the R faster around the track?
      Does that really matter? Most of us go to the track for (1) fun, and (2) to become better drivers. Non-defeatable ESP impinges on both of those.

      I never did track days to be the fastest car out there, or even to get the fastest possible time from my car – to that I could just hand the keys to a better driver. We’re not getting paid for lap times, we’re out there for fun and to learn to drive faster.

      I did all my track days in a ’95 325i which had only traction control, not ESP – and I turned that off. Knowing you’re one mistake away from a concrete wall makes you more cautious, and probably a safer driver. It’s not like ESP can protect you from all mistakes.

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      04-04-2012 09:23 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Alive By time View Post
      Even he was duped by the soundaktor
      Quote Originally Posted by 2ManyCars View Post
      Oh the hell I was! I knew it was there. The Euro R I drove last year didn't have it. This one did. Night, meet day. Day, meet night.

      In theory, fake engine sounds suck. In reality, they're a function of modern cars being so quiet when you're cruising. I'd rather have real, mechanical engine noise, but that makes it hard to sell cars... so manufacturers play tricks like this.
      Good lord, I thought the fake sound thread was an April fool's joke, didn't even read it!

      Now I have to yank this speaker and then mod the R to make it sound a little sporty?

      All this crap is just pushing me more towards a Boss 302.

    12. Member trueunion's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 12:50 AM #37
      Golf R anyday I have driven both cars and the R is a better car fit finish and safety.
      Just do it life is short.

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      04-05-2012 01:52 AM #38
      So... just wondering if there is any silver lining to always-on ESP.

      Only one I can think of is insurance rates. In theory, this "feature" should make the R much cheaper to insure than an all-other-things-being-pretty-much-equal alternative like the Evo or STI. Does it?

    14. Member Gyntry's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 02:02 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by xalfa View Post
      So... just wondering if there is any silver lining to always-on ESP.

      Only one I can think of is insurance rates. In theory, this "feature" should make the R much cheaper to insure than an all-other-things-being-pretty-much-equal alternative like the Evo or STI. Does it?
      I really don't think the insurance companies have the R in as an R - my personal experience is that they have it filed under a Golf (2.5 or TDI). I haven't heard of any companies getting it right within their systems yet.
      ClearWaterDubs Web -- CWD on Vortex

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    15. Member brandonekingatl's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 02:15 AM #40
      Progressive has mine listed correctly as a Golf R

    16. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 02:29 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Gyntry View Post
      I really don't think the insurance companies have the R in as an R - my personal experience is that they have it filed under a Golf (2.5 or TDI). I haven't heard of any companies getting it right within their systems yet.
      Yep same thing here I have All State and they have mine listed simply as a Golf

    17. Member JLCVDUB's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 03:02 AM #42
      USAA has it down as a Golf R. I didn't even tell her that, I gave her the VIN, and she verified it was a Golf R.
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      04-05-2012 08:17 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by JLCVDUB View Post
      USAA has it down as a Golf R. I didn't even tell her that, I gave her the VIN, and she verified it was a Golf R.
      I guess I insured mine earlier than you did with them, cause it took three phone calls over two days for them to insure it. I asked for quotes on the R, STI, and EVO. R was a bit cheaper than STI and EVO was almost double the R through USAA.

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      04-05-2012 09:14 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by xalfa View Post
      Only one I can think of is insurance rates. In theory, this "feature" should make the R much cheaper to insure than an all-other-things-being-pretty-much-equal alternative like the Evo or STI. Does it?
      Insurance rates are all about statistics calculating risk. Features of the car don't really matter once they have real accident rate and cost data.

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      04-05-2012 09:39 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by 2012r View Post
      I have no idea why VW decided American R's can't totally disable the stability control. Seems so weird why my Canadian R has the option and you guys don't get it. Hopefully this will be resolved with time and another review is completed.
      Either way, Volkswagen won't do anything about it because the majority of Golf R buyers are not going to be tracking their car.

      I'm still debating on getting the Golf R too.

    21. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 10:09 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by 2012r View Post
      I have no idea why VW decided American R's can't totally disable the stability control. Seems so weird why my Canadian R has the option and you guys don't get it.
      The U.S. is a lawyer state. You can bring a law suit for just about anything and some of them are successful. VW doesn't want to get sued. Only rationality I can bring to it.

      Quote Originally Posted by 2012r View Post
      Hopefully this will be resolved with time and another review is completed.
      I am fairly confident that once someone that is skilled with VagCom gets ahold of both the U.S. and Canadian coding that they'll be able to figure out a fix. It has to be in the software.
      Scotch. It's time.

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      04-05-2012 10:37 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      The U.S. is a lawyer state. You can bring a law suit for just about anything and some of them are successful. VW doesn't want to get sued. Only rationality I can bring to it.



      I am fairly confident that once someone that is skilled with VagCom gets ahold of both the U.S. and Canadian coding that they'll be able to figure out a fix. It has to be in the software.
      Right, but said skilled person (especially a tuner) may avoid sharing this information with the public for the same reason you set out above.

    23. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 10:47 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by ryank View Post
      Right, but said skilled person (especially a tuner) may avoid sharing this information with the public for the same reason you set out above.
      Different checks and balances with regard to legality. Obviously Mitsy doesn't see it as the same level of risk as VW does or they'd have neutered the EVO as well.

      By your rational APR wouldn't make performance software because of the risk of being sued by someone that wraps their chipped car around a tree.
      Scotch. It's time.

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    24. Junior Member Xpedite's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 11:12 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      ....here's the real question. If the ESP was fully disabled, is the R faster around the track?
      Sadly, that's easy - no.

      The ESC-on is an undeniable handicap that didn't affect the end result, only the magnitude of the loss. A convenient excuse, to be sure.

      "Yes, Usain Bolt beat me by 50 meters but you know my hammy has been bothering me..."

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      04-05-2012 11:28 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      Great review, truly enjoyed it.
      I can appreciate your POV, but here's the real question. If the ESP was fully disabled, is the R faster around the track? Or is it just that in this car, driving rally style, throwing the car into the corner and powering through simply is off the table as a option? I've yet to see anyone on these pages talk about ponying up the 10Gs for some Ohlins and heading to the Maine woods. So while it might be a valid criticism that some of the fun has been capped, its not at all clear to me, particularly given the admittedly flawed C&D track testing results, that the car's lap times are in any real sense compromised on track given the inability to defeat ESP.
      Push your car a little bit and that will answer your own question. ESP comes on soon and fast, way before there's rotation or loss of grip. A huge plus of AWD is the ability to get on the gas faster coming out of a corner and ESP in my experience limits that pretty severally. I had an STI before the R with no ESP and the difference in night and day. That may change with better tires as I still have AS but when comparing stock to stock it's horrible. I'm hoping PSS helps that out some but given how intrusive ESP is in my experience I don't have high hopes.
      Last edited by webcrawlr; 04-05-2012 at 11:33 AM.

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