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    Thread: looking for the extra ummph out of my 1.8t

    1. Member
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      1.8T Passat 1999
      04-04-2012 02:56 PM #1
      Ive had my B5 for quite a while now, and have made some improvments. i now have the money to actually get upgrades for my car. i know ive talked with most of you guys once before as i didnt exactly know what i wanted from my car, and i didnt have the funds to make anything happen.

      I am currently looking for a bit more power, i am not planning on making this a race car lol.
      currently at 200/210 hp 230ft lbs torque

      what i have
      chipped with unitronic (boosting 16lbs on stock turbo)
      basicly stock exaust (stock cat, 3" pipe running through from flex to muff, stock muff)
      ^^ (obviously that exaust doesnt do anything for me, just so you know i know)
      a drop in k&n air filter

      Comming soon
      turbo inlet
      Rokkor Coils
      high spring rate helper springs for those coilovers

      im looking to get up to 230 to 250 horses (what people have told me to get
      Electric turbo to spool my turbo up instantly
      3"catless downpipe and a high flow muff
      FMIC (why not a side mount?)
      gut my whole car. ( i would if it wasnt my daily lol)
      get a new car (240, 300zx, bmw, etc etc)

      any advice to get me to 230/250 ponys
      Last edited by vwcruzer710; 04-04-2012 at 03:01 PM.

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      04-04-2012 08:34 PM #2
      K04-15 and software for 230-250hp at the crank, a FT and supporting mods for 250whp. There is no real room for a good side mount intercooler so stick with a FMIC if you want that much power.
      Thanks to denial, my car is immortal!

    3. Member scotts13's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 09:18 PM #3
      Electric turbo? (chuckles) Really? Do some reading, then save your money and forget it.

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      04-04-2012 11:01 PM #4
      lolz i said the same thing,

      according to the guy who told me this
      he said to get it so it spools my turbo. i honestly almost broke out in laughter, but since he was dead serious i didn't.

      i really dont wanna go fmic b/c one its noticable, i wanna keep this a sleeper with that much power, second ive heard that you get massive amounts of problems after putting that in. and im trying to stick with the stock turbo since my ecu has already been chipped. dont exactly feel like spending money for the turbo kit plus another $600 tune

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      04-04-2012 11:21 PM #5
      also he said something about stacking chips?
      anyone have info on this? b/c i have never ever heard of it

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      04-04-2012 11:32 PM #6
      From what you are saying, this person you are talking about is a moron. Second, if you are keeping the tune you have, you can probably only get 10-20 more hp.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...o-tuning-guide
      this has anything and everything you can do to the stock turbo to get more power. You will notice there are a lot of things you can do, and a FMIC is a key one. You say you want it to be a sleeper, my FMIC is pretty hard to see unless you are looking for it.

      Lastly, are you looking for 230-250whp or crank. looking at the uni website I'm not sure if you can get in that range without a larger turbo, maybe 230hp at crank at most with all the addons.
      Thanks to denial, my car is immortal!

    7. Member
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      04-05-2012 12:09 AM #7
      that was a hell of a write up. im definantly keeping that in my bookmarks.

      i honestly dont have any questions. but if people still wanna write back, that would be awsome.

    8. Member
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      04-05-2012 01:12 AM #8
      i was looking for 230/250 at the crank lol. plus mines an auto, so going bigger and better turbo means a smashed up tranny. and i refuse to fix that. once that happens i am going to get a different car. perferably a cheeper, and lighter one . yes i do love my vw but right now its way too expensive to do much to if i want high quality power.

      ill probably stick to the guide that you gave me, do a couple of those things, if i can find a nice fmic maybe i can swing it if its not too noticable. that is honestly probably gonna be one of the last things im doing to this car. i know it should be more around the first things. but im going to put on the small bolt on things first then get the big power from the fmic.

      right now im going to focus on the downpipe, turbo inlet, and pullys, that seems like a good place to start for me since i already have the chip and most of the exaust.

      thanks for that post man. its gonna help me alot ^_^.

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      04-05-2012 02:24 AM #9
      Don't do pullies, they hurt if anything, do some research first.

      http://www.ssautochrome.com/level.itml/icOid/1437

      The one for the Golf is what I have with 2" piping on hot side and 2.5" on cold side (off ebay and I cut to fit). It works amazing but I kinda short cut the install and didn't try and figure out how to raise it one more inch (ran out of time), so the only way you know I have a FMIC is because I had to cut slits to have the bottom plastic part of the bumper fit. For the money there is nothing better.

      But a good start is full exhaust with test pipe, Forage TIP and at least a 225 TT DV.
      Thanks to denial, my car is immortal!

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      04-05-2012 11:20 AM #10
      i actually got the 250 tt dv a long time ago, b/c i knew that this would end up happening. i took it as a preliminary measure so that i didnt say lets turn up the boost... ah not yet need to get a dv first. ya know.

      atm im doing a write up for chem, if you had any quick links to why pullys are bad can you please post them. b/c i need to get my stuff done and this site is like crack for me. lol . or anything involving cars or performance.

      thanks again

    11. Member NadaGTI's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 12:03 PM #11
      this is one of the reasons I want a GTI so bad, more feekin common to work on

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      04-05-2012 12:15 PM #12
      Just do some searching in the 1.8t forum, its been well covered.
      Thanks to denial, my car is immortal!

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      04-05-2012 12:38 PM #13
      kk

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      04-05-2012 01:14 PM #14
      i have looked and can find nothing but good about light weight pullys. maybe im not looking hard enough. or am using the wrong words? idk

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      04-05-2012 03:44 PM #15
      If you want to do pullies get a fluidamp. light weight pullies make the system unbalanced at high rpms. The Fluidamp pully is actually heavier, but makes everything balanced.
      Thanks to denial, my car is immortal!

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      04-06-2012 02:46 PM #16
      how is this considering that our engines are internaly balanced? now the fluidamprs are heavier you say? this would be bad considering lightweight pullys are what you want? now i can understand if these would be underdrive pullys as well to compensate for the weight to stabalize the engine at high rpms.

      so maybe the same weight as original but smaller. means its going to rotate faster. this would mean getting the rest of the set for light weight pullys. meaning. smaller for the alternater so that it spins just as fast.

      also a new belt considering now you have smaller pullys.

      but why would you put a heavier pully on when you are looking for the lightweight pullys so that your engine doesnt have to rotate as much mass?

      i understand it stabalizes your engine at high rpms but now your adding more weight. so now you are losing more hp.

      do i have this right or did i just lose it somewhere

      also if you get this. then can you do the rest of the light weight pullys. and would it even make up the difference? for getting this?

    17. Member
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      04-06-2012 02:55 PM #17
      ok i got it. .. its not the fact that it is actually heavier. but the fact that you're only pulling the casing. which in fact means that you still have a lightweight pully.

      but fact is that the silicon slime inside this peice doesnt move as much as you think. so while it may be heavier. your engine isnt actually pulling all that weight.

    18. Member
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      04-08-2012 03:37 AM #18
      you know i could really use an answer on all this. i get what it does. but how does it help at all if its more weight. .. answers please

    19. Member scotts13's Avatar
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      04-08-2012 09:16 AM #19
      OK. A lightweight pulley essentially provides no real-world advantage. Power is the same, all it does is let the engine spin up a little faster when the clutch is disengaged. When you're actually moving the car, the entire drivetrain and weight of the vehicle is keeping it from spinning.

      SO, unless you spend most of your time blipping the throttle and popping the clutch, it makes no difference at all. If you ARE, on the track, it's trivial - certainly not worth the loss of smooth operation on a car that's used on the street.

      I've never actually seen a fluid filled pulley, but I suspect it's an attempt at a compromise - and probably, again, more trouble than it's worth.

    20. Member ArcticFox's Avatar
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      04-08-2012 12:24 PM #20
      http://www.frankenturbo.com/new/F4L.html

      That and get the unitronic stage 2+ 440cc file for the ECU.

      You won't be happy with with a K04-15. I was in the same boat went with a K04-015 and ended up going big turbo. Frankenturbo puts you in your range. Pulleys are a waste of money tbh.

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      04-08-2012 04:04 PM #21
      first off, there is no stage 2 for a B5 for unitronic. theres only a stage one and stage 1+

      second i have the ko3 or ko3s. going franken turbo means over 1000 dollars or 1500 dollars for 50 hp. that seems a bit pricy for just 50 ponys.

      i was thinking about going stage 1+ . but i dont think my intercooler would be able to handle 18lbs of boost as it is now. i would have to get a front mount.

      and third, would getting light weight pullys 1) do that much harm to my car, 2) really be that trivial to get? i mean im not going to be drifting in this thing b/c well. you cant. and i dont have money to go through wheels like that. and i would have to be doing much more suspention work than i am along with other things.

      i was going to follow this guys guide but now your telling me not to do one of the things that he says to do? lol

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      04-08-2012 04:06 PM #22
      correction. there is no stage 2 for the AEB 1.8t FWD B5 with the ko3(s) turbo

    23. Member ArcticFox's Avatar
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      04-08-2012 04:29 PM #23
      Convert the car to wideband. One of the best things you can do. You have better options on tuning.
      http://www.raceline-ws.com/shop/specialized-harness

      Frankenturbo is worth the money. Its night and day between a F4L and a K04-015. Your thinking hp I'm taking about a better powerband in general.

      If you have a budget then get a used K03s and convert to a wideband ECU.

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      04-08-2012 10:56 PM #24
      getting a wide band for the car. can you do it without getting a different turbo? . i dont see anything that says you cant.

      im not looking for it to race.
      the mods that im planning for it. im sure will give it an ok power band.

      but this isnt replacing the current ecu right?

    25. Member Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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      04-09-2012 12:16 AM #25
      It sounds to me like you're looking for the power you'd get from a stage 2 modified engine (bigger turbo, matching tune, all the supporting modifications) but you don't want to modify your engine to stage 2 or spend what it would cost to modify your engine to stage 2.

      If you can make it happen, let us know how you did it. Lots of people would be interested in doing the same.
      A science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures taken from inconclusive experiments and performed with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and questionable mentality

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      04-09-2012 12:40 PM #26
      well i dont mind going stage two, but ive talked to forcefed engineering about it, they said it can only be done by going bigger turbo b/c there is a stage two for that. they said there is only stage 1 and 1+. if i can get stage two from race line that would be great. and i would have no problem with that... but since i already have stage 1 for unitronic, would i have to pay the full cost for stage two, or just the difference.

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      04-09-2012 12:59 PM #27
      its just i wanna keep my turbo stock. i dont wanna have to add a turbo into the cost of getting 250 hp. i want to be able to do it otherwise. i dont mind my power band, if i start to race i will learn how to work with it.

      normaly if i do race and shift it short (with the triptronic) i get a nice hard and long pull out of second gear and then third gear kinda sucks a little, and 4 is nice and 5 doesnt do anything lol

    28. Member scotts13's Avatar
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      04-09-2012 06:08 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by vwcruzer710 View Post
      its just i wanna keep my turbo stock. i dont wanna have to add a turbo into the cost of getting 250 hp. i want to be able to do it otherwise. i dont mind my power band, if i start to race i will learn how to work with it.
      I want to flap my arms and fly to the moon. If you want 250 HP out of a 170 HP engine, you're going to need a bigger turbo or something else even more expensive.

      There, wasn't that easy?

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      04-09-2012 07:32 PM #29
      -__-

    30. Member Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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      04-09-2012 08:56 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by vwcruzer710 View Post
      its just i wanna keep my turbo stock.
      Your turbo is your current limiting factor. They can only get so much out of a stock engine just by playing with the software. You may be able to pick up a few horses with modifications like a free flowing exhaust, but for the next big gain, you'll need a different turbo (and the tune & supporting modifications to go with it).
      A science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures taken from inconclusive experiments and performed with instruments of problematic accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability and questionable mentality

    31. Member ArcticFox's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 03:16 PM #31
      Okay if you don't want to do anything with the software or change the turbo then do it the other way around. Strip the trunk and remove anything you don't use to lower the weight of the car. Less weight = less hp/tq needed to move it.

      Seriously though you can get a K03s used for 100-200 in pretty good shape.

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      04-10-2012 07:49 PM #32
      is there that much of a difference between a ko3 and a ko3s?

    33. Member ArcticFox's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 09:44 PM #33
      Yes, a k03s flows 11% more then a K03. A K04 flows 5-6% more then a K03s. For the price of a used one its a good deal.

      Try giving Gonzo@GonzoTuning a PM on the vortex. I'm pretty sure he can make you a more aggresive "stage 2" like file for you.

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      04-11-2012 11:37 PM #34
      oh btw i contacted raceline about a wideband and getting a stage 2.

      my problem is they said i would have to replace my current ecu. i am not looking to take out the ecu i have and re-do the stage one i already have that cost me 550 to get. i wouldnt mind getting the wide band as long as i can keep the credit i have towards unitronic tuning.

      to arctic fox, for the moment let me get all the tiny mods that i should do excluding pullys since that is such a controversal issue.

      i just put in the turbo inlet hose, it feels like a faster turbo spool time, but not by much. i still need to get the coils. and catless downpipe.

      but now my other expense is a broken computer that i was not planning on accounting for. so i might be out for a little till i can get those two items and put them in.

      on that complete stock turbo tuning guide, i would also have to get the cooler burning spark plugs, a gasket for the intake manifold for lower air temps. i have a thermostat for 180 but i dont think that that is going to be much worth it.

      let me stick to these small things and i can get a turbo later if i still have this car and what not.

      question tho. and ive asked before, i will ask again. will the stock intercooler be able to handle a stage 1+ from unitronic. this means 18 lbs of boost. people say not to get the stage 1+ b/c my car will not be able to handle it, with the stock intercooler. is this true or false and will the engine last just as long if you dont beat on it with the 18 lbs?

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      04-12-2012 12:16 AM #35
      You can use the stock IC, it will just heat soak even more than it already does. A FMIC is good for even a K03, but you don't need it if you don't want it, the car wont explode.
      Thanks to denial, my car is immortal!

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