1.8T swap clutch questions

[2OVT]

Swapping a AWP 1.8T into my 90 g60, was wondering if this clutch would withstand a flashed 1.8T? I will be retaining my 02A gearbox for now.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-.../Clutch/ES125/

[bonesaw]

yes. 02J is basically a newer 02A

[K.M.A.S.W.]

fk it...go all out bro..6 puck, 8lb FW, extra HD pressure plate

[Vegeta Gti]

fk it...go all out bro..6 puck, 8lb FW, extra HD pressure plate

that would be a fukn waste and useless.

clutch masters fx100 is a fukn awesome clutch, but a sachs power kit(pp and clutch) will be fine. a flywheel no less than 14lbs will be perfect. drives well,rev's like a mofo.

[K.M.A.S.W.]

well when he eventually decides to go with a bigger turbo it wont be so dumb. i run the 10lb FW(should have went 8lb), 6 puck clutch, and extra heavy duty PP that i suggested and it drives nice actually. unsprung clutch disk and all. ill be going GT30 in the summer..so thats when the "waste" clutch come into play but if the OP is planning on being stock turbo forever or for a long time..then by all means..the clutch setup from ecs is cool

[K.M.A.S.W.]

then that way, you could stick with your 02a, put a tdi 5th, nice LSD and you'll have a solid tranny. you really wouldnt have to change it..you could go with a 6 speed just to have that extra gear but the 02a tdi 5th will save you more gas than an 02m and will ultimately give you the ability to go faster (speaking of top speed) if you want. also you'll skip the custom axles, custom tranny mount, and changing your shifter and linkage sytem.

[2OVT]

So does everyone feel the ECS kit will hold up to the flashed 1.8T? I plan to stay k03s until the end of the summer, so 4 months or so or 30K lol

[K.M.A.S.W.]

will hold up just fine..but do you thinkit will hold up to what you will be putting on next?

[2OVT]

will hold up just fine..but do you thinkit will hold up to what you will be putting on next?

No, I will be swapping clutches...again

http://store.blackforestindustries.c...wflstclki.html

[K.M.A.S.W.]

switching clutches in 4 months seems a lil extra to me..collectively over 1k in just clutches..when you could buy this right now http://www.lmperformance.com/130082/.html (i bought the stage 4 which still engages pretty smooth) and you still have money left over to buy W/E flywheel you want and you only have to do the clutch once..and costs less. you'll save money by buying one clutch, dunno if you pay for installation but if so you'll save money there, and save time. thats just my opinion..if you feel like buying a clutch once and having it last you a long while, even after you put more power down, is a waste..then by all means do it your way. i jst try and help where i can..happy building my friend

[2OVT]

switching clutches in 4 months seems a lil extra to me..collectively over 1k in just clutches..when you could buy this right now http://www.lmperformance.com/130082/.html (i bought the stage 4 which still engages pretty smooth) and you still have money left over to buy W/E flywheel you want and you only have to do the clutch once..and costs less. you'll save money by buying one clutch, dunno if you pay for installation but if so you'll save money there, and save time. thats just my opinion..if you feel like buying a clutch once and having it last you a long while, even after you put more power down, is a waste..then by all means do it your way. i jst try and help where i can..happy building my friend

the way I see it now, when I do go BT if I don't swap over to an 02J or 02M, the 02A will need an LSD, ****...it'll probably need one for the 1.8T swap but I have to spare that expense right now in order to get this going as quickly as possible. I don't really wanna drive a Stage 3+ clutch and drive around with just a flash/bolt on 1.8T, wouldn't it drive like poop then? I'll be doing the clutch...as I am doing the swap so I am not too concerned. I might wait even longer to go BT now, like the fall...I guess we'll see. I do gratefully appreciate your response and words of advice, but we all live and learn

Anyone else have an input on a recommended clutch for the flashed 1.8T?

[K.M.A.S.W.]

just to inform you..all of the transmissions you listed will need an LSD as they dont come with one. and the ar will not drive like poop..i daily my stage 4 with 8lb FW..if i drive it, you would never know it had a clutch

[2OVT]

just to inform you..all of the transmissions you listed will need an LSD as they dont come with one. and the ar will not drive like poop..i daily my stage 4 with 8lb FW..if i drive it, you would never know it had a clutch

Yes, I know this. Do you deal with terrible chatter?

[K.M.A.S.W.]

no chatter at all bro. like i said..if your in or outside of the car and im driving, you would never know i had an upgraded clutch. by the way, dunno if i mentioned but my clutch has no springs either

[Vegeta Gti]

FX300 kit.

can handle 450whp+ drives like stock, no chatter. great in traffic or constant bashing.

1350 for everything...clutch,pp,flywheel,throwout and alignment tool. you'll never have to upgrade unless you wanna drag with 500+whp, then you might wanna go bigger.

8lb flywheel is jsut too light, you lose torque along the bottom, yeah it rev's,etc but this isnt a road course car is it?

my 14lb does fine with my TDi 02J 30r and then some MKI 20v...4+ years and it's my daily as well as more.

[K.M.A.S.W.]

could you explain how a lightened flywheel causes a loss of low end torque?

[Vegeta Gti]

torque is transfered through weight, in a way of words.


if you pull out a ton of that mass fromt eh flywheel, it spins up faster yes, but with that ease of rev you lose torque as your just not filling the cylinders as much because it just rips through the RPM's.

ther eis a better much more technical way to explain it, but one fo the number thign si see people do in the VW/Audi world is go with a flywheel that is too light. we make excellent bottom end torque, so why waste it with a flywheel that is far too light?

going with a 15-18lb flywheel from a 23lb is a HUGE difference. if your o2M than you go from 28lbs to 16-19 it's still a huge difference, but you dont lose the driveablility down low(torque) you dont have a whiplash like part throttle(lack of torque/engine ramps too quickly) and you still have better engine breaking and quicker rev's.

even drag guys aren't going that low of a weight anymore.

some of the most powerful 20vT drag guys are running 14lb single mass billet flywheels. must be worth it.

[K.M.A.S.W.]

torque is transfered through weight, in a way of words.


if you pull out a ton of that mass fromt eh flywheel, it spins up faster yes, but with that ease of rev you lose torque as your just not filling the cylinders as much because it just rips through the RPM's.

ummm i dont think i can find any validity in what your saying "torque is transferred through weight" other than engine torque is transferred to the ground VIA the drivetrain which has a "weight" so to speak. you say the cylinders arent being filled as much..how so? actually the RPM's going up faster is due to more torque being transferred through the drivetrain as torque is the rate of change in angular velocity..and that measurement is categorized as a force. so your argument directly goes against your initial statement has a higher rate. an engine spinning up faster means it has a higher rate of change..meaning it has higher torque. correct me if im wrong. i actually go to school for mechanical engineering so i like these kinds of coversations

going with a 15-18lb flywheel from a 23lb is a HUGE difference. if your o2M than you go from 28lbs to 16-19 it's still a huge difference, but you dont lose the driveablility down low(torque) you dont have a whiplash like part throttle(lack of torque/engine ramps too quickly) and you still have better engine breaking and quicker rev's.

that whiplash feeling of more torque. quicker revs is due to more torque. torque is more gear related than anything really..besides over engine efficiency. like on an old mustang foxbody. you go from a 373(i think) R&P in the diff to a 411 R&P in the diff and the engine produces more toqrue, revs up alot quicker, and throw you in the seat more...they all go hand in hand bro

[Vegeta Gti]

very true.

do this, g get a 10lb flywheel and a 14lb flywheel. same car. dyno both Fw on the same car same dyno.

see which one has better low end torque. i have done this, not for that aspect, but because i had to..FW took a dump. much better with the heavier flywheel.


i understand your view point. i deal in real world, but when i need ai ahve a wife with aerospace and mech engineering degrees. i can always get numbers when i am stumped

trust me, it pays off to have a good middle weight on a flywheel on our little motors.

used to run an 8lb on a couple of my older racecars, went 12lb never looked back.

[K.M.A.S.W.]

ok so answer me this. when an engine is on an engine dyno, it puts out more hp and torque than it will at the wheels do to drivetrain loss from WEIGHT among other things. if you have ever seen an engine on an engine dyno, they rev up really quick because they dont have as much rotational mass to spin..so how is it that when the engine is in the car and has more weight to spin, yet it puts down less HP and Torque across the whole RPM band? the answer is because as you shed rotational mass, you get closer to figuring out the engines true output or in the case, torque..which is why the number goes up. if your GF has these degrees, you should consult her and she will confirm. if what your saying is true then why do ppl put super lightweight wheels on their car? and carbon fiber driveshafts? and underdrive pulleys? to reduce rotational mass..directly increasing the torque and HP being applied to the wheels.

[Vegeta Gti]

def seen many engines on an engine dyno. you are correct, losing that mass is great, but i stand by my word. the driveability will be better havign that balance and some additional weight going from engine to drive train..


btw. wife, not gf :p

[bonesaw]

i love these engineering vs real world debates. to original poster, i would consider and upgraded disk if you plan to do more mods later. Id also take into consideration the lighter the flywheel the more likely that it will chatter. some people it bothers and others dont mind it. I ran a 12lb FW, clutchnet 6 puck, VR PP for a very long time 300whp and then a 500whp car. Very streetable. I prefered it over my mk4.

[K.M.A.S.W.]

this chatter i keep hearing....i have possibly the most insane clutch/flywheel setup you can imagine without going twin disk and ive never heard my clutch chatter..and i do not ride my clutch at all. i do agree tho, driving in traffic is less of a nightmare when driving with a heavier flywheel..but that doesnt side step my initial arguement, which is, decresing rotational mass does not affect tq adversely.

[Vegeta Gti]

i am not saying your wrong, but i have seen it proven.

i notice a lot fo 02M's chatter badly with single mass FW. the tolerance sint eh gear box are pretty tight and the loss of weight makes some chatter. but for you, it's a spec. i have installed many that chatter. it's nerve wrenching, but it's fine.


i love my my SB stg5 with kevlar slipper ring, kevlar ceramic and kevlar organic disc. wish they still sold it. would buy another. good for 600whp and 600ft.lbs. thing has a great pedal feel, not kungfu hip type ****, driveable like it's a 16v clutch. and butter smooth.