QUATTRO will loose traction with 550hp +

[panakamana]

Im currently finishing my BT build, it is a GTX3071r with Big ports head, big ports manifold, 2.5 TB body, aspirated cams, etc.. I was wondering will it loose traction and spin wheels with all this power? Or should it still behave like a complete traction vehicle?
Any input is appreciated.

[wrestler4life521]

you should look into suspension upgrades/ maybe a blue haldex controller. Remember Quattro only sends power to the rear once it detects slippage in the front. If those are your planned numbers, it might be a little too late once the front ones break loose

[DougLoBue]

Race gas or alternative fuel with high boost (30+ PSI) will net you numbers like 550awhp

A launch with or without two step at high RPM's will spin tires through first.

If you nail the pedal in second the initial torque when you hit boost will spin them for a moment or two

[panakamana]

I got a good set of koni yellows adjustables and h&r springs as my current suspension.

But I might need a blue/orange haldex controller to avoid spinning with this kind of power?

Doug:

I will use race fuel only for drag racing (which occurs once a week).

Actually I have a wotbox and I do 2 step launches (currently installing maestro 7 and I've have the idea that I kind do 2 step launches with this too). So to clarify, with or without 2 step launches with this kind of power I'm gonna be spinning tires all first until second? How can I avoid this?

My initial question was: With the mods I had in the past (unitronic stage 2, cai, catback, dp, meth inj., etc...) I never spined wheels or loosed traction, so with this new increment in power the car would behave totally different (traction wise speaking)?

[20v master]

A Haldex controller isn't going to stop you from losing traction, it's just going to make sure the rear is locked at 50/50 when you go WOT. Either way, it's still going to spin all four in low gear(s). The solution is more tire!

[murTTer]

I hope you plan on doing pistons, rods, bolts if you plan on running high boost. Traction is the last thing I would be worried about, that can be fixed.. Holes in your block cant.

[DougLoBue]

It's going to be different but not much on the street. You'll probably make ~400+ front wheel hp on pump gas and your old setup made ~250fwhp.

Due to where the power occurs in our rev-band you will be able to drive the car like a normal person everywhere. You won't have boost till 4-5k so you'll have plenty of traction till then. I only loose traction for a moment in 2nd.

Yep only solution is more tire

[panakamana]

Thanks for your answers.

I do have forged pistons, integrated eng. rods and arps bolts.

The solution then might be getting more wide wheels to fit wider tires right?


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[l88m22vette]

I'll bet you can, I've spun all four in the rain with my 02xceptionally underpowered

[20v master]

The solution then might be getting more wide wheels to fit wider tires right?

To make a significant difference, yes. I run 245's on my fat fives though. That's about all you want to put on a 7.5" wheel. Now my pal......



...has 285's on 8.5" wheels. Too bad the car has never moved under its own power with them though.

[jbrehm]

I'd say the solution is better tire, with more tire being a distant second.

Tires are THE most overlooked mod in the tuner scene - they improve acceleration, grip, handling, and braking. I have no idea why the tuner scene has completely glossed over buying decent rubber, but the amount of guys I see running around with 300+HP and All-Seasons is ridiculous

With 225 Star Specs (closer to 245 width of most tires), I have no issues with grip in my car (see my sig). Good suspension + good alignment + top-end Summer rubber = grip that induces dizziness

[20v master]

but the amount of guys I see running around with 300+HP and All-Seasons is ridiculous

Because they are cheap and want to look good. Same reason you see people with airbags, though they aren't cheap.

[TTC2k5]

.... but the amount of guys I see running around with 300+HP and All-Seasons is ridiculous

That's just crazy talk ^^^^.

ZR rated all seasons, like my Continental DWS are perfect for 300+ hp TTs. In the real world, every day isn't clear, blue, and 72.

cheers.

[panakamana]

I currently got 4 nitto invos 245\40/17


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[20v master]

That's just crazy talk ^^^^.

ZR rated all seasons, like my Continental DWS are perfect for 300+ hp TTs. In the real world, every day isn't clear, blue, and 72.

cheers.

Because speed rating has what to do with traction? And LMAO at your 540 tread wear rating.

[jbrehm]

Haha, I wouldn't rock 540UTQG tires on a base Civic! Some people just don't get it

Panakamana, those tires are better than what I'd say most people run, even on modified cars, but you've always got room to move up if you do have traction issues. I'd buy top-end Summers before ever getting close to 500+wHP, but that's just my opinion. Of course, having a decent suspension setup is also going to help with your traction.

[sTT eV6]

Correct geo for use.
Correct tyres for use.
ALK
HPA competition/orange haldex

Steve

[murTTer]

all this talk about tires and only 1 person said anything about suspension.....hmm.. w/**** suspension you will have **** power delivery, not saying tires arent something to take into consideration but you can hook up w **** tires too..

[DeckManDubs]

Spinning tires is good. If have too much grip things break, so dialing in grip/weak point is key.

[M this 2!]

A bigger thing about the Haldex is that when you nail the gas on a stock car, it waits for 15 degrees of wheel slip and then the rear clutches engage. WITH the upgrade, it actually detects throttle input and engages the rear, before the the torque builds and spins the fronts. SO much easier on the Haldex clutches.

You can also add a front or rear Peloquin LSD and have even more traction. More traction does not always mean stuff breaking. My GT2871 w/ 91 gas will spin all 4 thru first on a hard launch. This is with the Haldex and a rear LSD. The car is ripping out of the hole and gaining traction as speeds build. you'll have more power and more traction will just be better.

[panakamana]

Ok, so summing it up, I'm getting my suspension right (just ordered koni struts and h&r sport springs). Second tires, (I might get some wider wheels, like 9 or 9.5, and mount some 305 tires )
And if this doesn't work I'll try an upgraded haldex controller or a LSD.

Thanks!

[sTT eV6]

Getting the tyres correct would be the first stop as spinning wheels doesn't get you fast times.
Best Geo for your application would be second.

You dont need big power to have fun.
Steve

[Marcus_Aurelius]

Rubber, rubber, rubber and some more rubber!

I get about 400 AWTQ very early in my car (around 3k where all Big snails are still sleeping) and on 245 street tires (Falken Azenis summer tires) I get major wheel spin whith any minimal steering angle at WOT. To tame 500 AWTQ (HP always build up gradually and peak late, it's the rapid torque onset that does the spinning) you will need big rubber. When I say big rubber, I am talking 295+ all around on a good summer compound).

Unfortunately this is what 315 looks like in a TT

[panakamana]

Haha..

Yes I was thinking getting some 305s

But man that looks awful. Maybe just for the track ill do that. Meanwhile Ill get a lil spin!

[sTT eV6]

Rubber, rubber, rubber and some more rubber!

I get about 400 AWTQ very early in my car (around 3k where all Big snails are still sleeping) and on 245 street tires (Falken Azenis summer tires) I get major wheel spin whith any minimal steering angle at WOT. To tame 500 AWTQ (HP always build up gradually and peak late, it's the rapid torque onset that does the spinning) you will need big rubber. When I say big rubber, I am talking 295+ all around on a good summer compound).

Unfortunately this is what 315 looks like in a TT

Im running a fair size snail and on boost at 3k.
With 235 fronts and 255 rears i dont get spin, but thats down to the DSG i think.
If your launching hard then your front is going to lift which will give less grip and hence spin.
Maybe corner weighting and an ALK will help.
Steve

[panakamana]

Yes that might be good too, thanks Steve.

Or I was thinking how about getting a progressive boost controller, and setting it so the boost gradually goes from less psi to full from 1, 2, 3 etc. gear. Might be worth trying?

[jbrehm]

I think Marcus has an issue with traction due to his insanely maxed setup on a K04, which has a pretty violent torque curve. He's also a very competitive auto-crosser, who thinks a 99% sorted setup is a failure

I build boost very quickly thanks to 2.0L, 10:1 compression, and a well sorted wastegate/N75/boost controller setup, and I have no significant traction issues on 225 Star Specs. Don't get me wrong - I'll slap on some 245-255 tires when I get around to getting wider wheels, but I have no issues with aggressive daily driving. With a GT30 turbo, I think you'll be fine with 245+ top-end Summer rubber in Summer temperatures.

[panakamana]

Cool, I feel more peace inside me.