Lease on a Mini Countryman

[VR6JetPilot]

i will probably purchase (2.9% currently available) but the salesperson emailed me the following lease numbers.
seems high to me.

MSRP $30,500
Price $29,500
36 mo/10k miles (miles is not an issue since my wife and i share 3 cars)
$447/mo, $486 w/ tax included
drive off $833.49
Residual 59%, $17396.

[Tucci]

Seems like an extremely high money factor since the residual is good.

For comparison the 2013 VW CC has a really low MF and similar residual and you can lease a $34k Sport Plus for $409 + Tax Sign and Drive.

[pknopp]

Just doing the rough numbers, they are charging you close to 8% interest. You should be half of that tops.

[VR6JetPilot]

thanks for the quick replies. that's what i figured.
is this how salespeople usually start with a lease and expect some negotiating on the interest rate? or is this a take it or leave it?

[pknopp]

thanks for the quick replies. that's what i figured.
is this how salespeople usually start with a lease and expect some negotiating on the interest rate? or is this a take it or leave it?

Unfortunately many times dealerships make it so hard to get money factor information unlike interest rates.

Nobody buys a car without asking and knowing up front what the interest rate will be. Dealerships still want to pretend that the money factor is something that is reserved for their information only. If they will not plainly tell you what it is, walk. Another dealer will.

We just leased a car for the wife. My position was that I wanted to know what the manufacturer was listing the money factor for. If the dealer was going to bump it, fine, that would be a deciding factor but I was going to know what the number was or I was walking.

The local dealer lost our business in part because of this. I may be stating something you know but take the money factor and multiply it by 2400 to get the interest rate. .00157 X 2400 = 3.76%
To be fair, the dealer we bought the car had no problem disclosing the rate (which I was able to verify) and they had the car we wanted. It was quick and easy from there.

[VR6JetPilot]

Thanks again for the reply. I read a little bit on the 'how to calculate a lease' thread but it's always good to hear the numbers again. Since I intend to purchase, it's not a big deal but it kinda gave me this feeling that they're gonna try to screw me in the purchase somehow.

[rodion_kjd]

Sales manager at a MINI dealer in Ohio here. Programs might be slightly different on the west coast but here in the Central Region if you worked that selling price with the lowest available money factor (0.00190) and a 59% residual you'd be at $472 per month including our tax of 6.75%. I'd say you're actually getting a pretty good deal.

Let me know if I can do anything else!

-Ken

[pknopp]

.00190 isn't real competitive today. The residual is very high though.

I don't understand though. Figuring a 30,500 What is this, a Turbo AWD model? At 30,500 you should be able to do far better than 29,500 and using the numbers provided and come up with around $420.

[VR6JetPilot]

Thanks for the confirmation Ken. Just reading Mini message boards, I've realized that there isn't much room to move on price on the Countryman. And our tax in CA is 8.75%

[VR6JetPilot]

.00190 isn't real competitive today. The residual is very high though.

I don't understand though. Figuring a 30,500 What is this, a Turbo AWD model? At 30,500 you should be able to do far better than 29,500 and using the numbers provided and come up with around $420.

It's a Countryman S w/ Xenon, sport package, auto, flat load floor, bluetooth and can't remember what else.

[rodion_kjd]

.00190 isn't real competitive today. The residual is very high though.

I don't understand though. Figuring a 30,500 What is this, a Turbo AWD model? At 30,500 you should be able to do far better than 29,500 and using the numbers provided and come up with around $420.

.00190 is the rate through BMW Financial Services. You could probably find a .00130 through US Bank however that would drop your residual substantially. Don't forget you'll need to factor in a $725 fee from FS and whatever dealer fees are in CA. It would probably work out the same. As for pricing on the car itself MSRP is a 9% mark-up over cost. Most MINI stores are still close to retail and, at least in my market, $1000 off is an insane deal.

[pknopp]

.00190 is the rate through BMW Financial Services. You could probably find a .00130 through US Bank however that would drop your residual substantially. Don't forget you'll need to factor in a $725 fee from FS and whatever dealer fees are in CA. It would probably work out the same. As for pricing on the car itself MSRP is a 9% mark-up over cost. Most MINI stores are still close to retail and, at least in my market, $1000 off is an insane deal.

I figured my payment with the stated 1K discount. Even adding in another $1500 I do not get $480.

[rodion_kjd]

I figured my payment with the stated 1K discount. Even adding in another $1500 I do not get $480.

Believe me, leases are hard to do by hand. Selling price of $29.500 and a $725 bank fee, figure $1,071.22 in Ohio tax gives you a Cap cost of $31,616.22. MSRP of $30,500 and a 59% residual gives you an end value of $17,995. Once you add title and license in Ohio you're at a tax-included montly of $472.62 based on a factor of 0.00190.

Give it a try with those numbers and I'm sure you'll be spot on.

-Ken

[pknopp]

Any way you figure it, the current money factor (not that there is anything at all you can do about that) would cause me to not do it.

I wouldn't pay 2K over plus $750 either. If that is what dealer are getting though, great for them.

[VR6JetPilot]

Let me know if I can do anything else!

-Ken

So Mini has a Graduate Program for an additional $500 off and I read on message boards that if you participate in the Test Drive Take Down, you may receive a $750 certificate towards a Mini purchase. Are these 2 combinable? If I wait a month, I should have both available.

[rodion_kjd]

So Mini has a Graduate Program for an additional $500 off and I read on message boards that if you participate in the Test Drive Take Down, you may receive a $750 certificate towards a Mini purchase. Are these 2 combinable? If I wait a month, I should have both available.

You're correct. You can combine both of those offers. Just keep in mind that you have to have graduated less than one year ago (or you will graduate within 4 months) and you can't have ANY negative things on your credit report. So if you've ever missed a payment on a student loan or credit card or utility bill or if you have an outstanding library fine they'll turn it down.

[VR6JetPilot]

i think they changed the terms on the graduate program to "you've graduated....".
i was hoping to take advantage of it since i graduate next month but the lady pointed out it's been changed .
thanks again for your help.
i told my salesperson that if we split the difference, and takes off another $250, i won't wait til next month and will purchase the car.

[sporksforall]

I looked at leasing a Countryman in LA. The Calabasas dealer had a S with a 6MT that he was running a special on, which brought it down into the 380 range. Nothing else came close, but the drive off was high (almost $3K). Went with an Acura instead (not the usual cross-shop, admittedly), because the money factor was so much better.

BMW just doesn't do well (IMO) with lease rates. Even a 2011 335D has a high money factor and it's a year old and no longer made. I love our Cooper, so it's not an anti-Mini thing. Just glad we bought the Cooper instead of leasing.

[rodion_kjd]

I looked at leasing a Countryman in LA. The Calabasas dealer had a S with a 6MT that he was running a special on, which brought it down into the 380 range. Nothing else came close, but the drive off was high (almost $3K). Went with an Acura instead (not the usual cross-shop, admittedly), because the money factor was so much better.

BMW just doesn't do well (IMO) with lease rates. Even a 2011 335D has a high money factor and it's a year old and no longer made. I love our Cooper, so it's not an anti-Mini thing. Just glad we bought the Cooper instead of leasing.

FYI year old cars always lease worse than new cars. Same way with interest rates; they'll always be higher the older the car is. The only thing that can bring down the cost of a year old (but still new, untitled car) is a dealer or manufacturer cash discount.

-Ken

[daveg243]

I've leased my last 5 cars. My advise for a very simple formula to judge if you got a good deal or not is to calculate the loan to value ratio. You can calculate this pretty easily. Although it is not a flawless system, it gives you a good idea where you stand.

(1) You add the cap cost reduction (down payment if any) plus the acquisition fee ($600-$700).

(2) Then multiply you monthly payment times the number of months in the lease (36 x $447).

(3) Add the two numbers above together and DIVIDE by 36 (in your case).
This is your true monthy payment.

(4) You just divide this by the MSRP, NOT the sale price, and multiply by 100.

This is your LVR. In your ase I calculated 1.46 LVR. Not good but not horrible.
The current VW Tiguan S Deal has a 1.28 LVR for example.

Anything above a 1.35 LVR is generally not considered a good deal. The closer you get to 1.00 the better. Usually Hondas can be had at this range, but occassionally there are deals to be had. Hope it helps. My 2012 VW Golf was a 1.28 LVR. Again this is just a simple way to see if you are getting a decent deal or not.

Check out some current LVRs http://monthlycarlease.com/

[VR6JetPilot]

I looked at leasing a Countryman in LA. The Calabasas dealer had a S with a 6MT that he was running a special on, which brought it down into the 380 range. Nothing else came close, but the drive off was high (almost $3K). Went with an Acura instead (not the usual cross-shop, admittedly), because the money factor was so much better.

BMW just doesn't do well (IMO) with lease rates. Even a 2011 335D has a high money factor and it's a year old and no longer made. I love our Cooper, so it's not an anti-Mini thing. Just glad we bought the Cooper instead of leasing.

I've been to the Calabasas dealer but they had the smallest inventory and didn't have anything that I was interested in. Plus, they weren't very helpful so I left. The funny thing I read about the Countryman is that people cross shop against everything from small cars to SUVs.

[VR6JetPilot]

in case anyone wanted an update, i ended up purchasing a new black countryman S. talked them down a few hundred more and received an additional $500 new graduate discount. since i found the countryman i wanted, i didn't wait for the additional discount for the take down test drive. special thanks to rodion_kjd for the info you provided


MCSfront by cursor718, on Flickr

[CorradoMagic]

I'm looking at leasing a Countryman S as well. The salesman has offered me $800 off the sticker + my options. The car is not on the lot, it has to be ordered.

Since most MINI's are pre-ordered, does MINI still have a 'Dealer Holdback'? If so, they are guaranteed a profit even if selling at invoice, (not sticker)?

Being that MINI operates a bit differently with 'pre-orders' does a dealer holdback apply/exist? if so, what is the % ?
I realize this is the dealerships profit, not the salesman's.

The current Consumer Reports Pricing Guide(which I regard highly as a reputable source) discloses the Dealer Invoice & actual Option Costs for all models.
It appears the Factory 'Options' are only marked up minimally. The Invoice to MSRP on a Countryman S lists as $24,345 - $27,050
.... plus destination, options, etc.

My 'options' have a markup of nearly $800. I am aiming for a deal of aprox 3.5% over invoice($25,197), plus 'options' at the discount/cost price.
This still leaves MINI with $852 'sticker' profit & *any dealer incentives/holdbacks.(*and possible accessory option profits of ~ $800)

I'm pushing for an aggressive deal. Looking for some feedback here!
TIA

[CorradoMagic]

^ Bump

[VR6JetPilot]

i really don't know anything about dealer holdbacks but good luck on getting an aggressive deal. i went to 3 dealers around me and i didn't find any great deals. a few dealers i went to had some countryman S ALL4s that were in the $34k range and i was thinking that they would sit there for a while and i would try to lowball them for a good deal.....they all sold in a week or two.

i heard that if you sign up for the mini take down (on miniusa.com), people have been receiving a $750 voucher towards a purchase of a new mini that you have to use before you take delivery.

i must say that the car gets a lot of attention and constantly have strangers asking how we like the car, getting the from fellow mini drivers and even finding other minis parked next to us. good luck. check out northamericanmotoring.com for other mini countryman info.

[mtbscoTT]

MINI does not have holdback. There are some CSI (customer service index) bonuses that can be earned but it's an overall dealer rating thing, not a rebate on individual cars sold. Unless there are current dealer cash or finance/lease incentives, the invoice/MSRP ratio you can find on Edmunds is it. MINI's have done surprisingly well since their introduction here on holding onto a pretty good per car profit.

[gsprobe]

Believe me, leases are hard to do by hand.

-Ken

They are easy equations when you have the formula and the correct figures to work with. No need to make a lease out to be anything more than that. Leasing is simply renting with some interest charges, plus a residual (buyout).

[silver91]

Do not lease unless money is a last thing you worry about.

[CorradoMagic]

Do not lease unless money is a last thing you worry about.

Why is that?
the Finance vs lease % is within 1%
I can write on the entire lease & associated expenses for my business & still choose to buy in the end. (when financing it a pro-rated depreciative figure)

I'd personally rather keep my money in my pocket & pay very little down(lease) vs dropping nearly 10K+(finance) to get the same monthly payment. *no, i havent forgotten about the ballon payment. (that's an option, & 36mo away)

[daveg243]

Do not lease unless money is a last thing you worry about.

This myth is brought to you in part by our sponsors who believe the following:

"Change your oil every 3000 miles"
"American cars are unreliable"
"Korean cars are junk"
"Only drive automatic if there is no manual available"
"the internet is unsafe, I'd rather do things through the mail"
and "paying for your car entirely in cash is always better than a low interest loan."

Seriously, a lease can be better if it's subsidized and you don't plan on keeping the car a few extra years beyond the warranty expiration. Many lease deals provide a great residual value at a low interest rate. Many manufacturers allow you to "sell" your leased car for a profit at lease end, just like a purchase. Most lease virgins aren't aware of this. You really don't own anything until the car is paid for even when not leasing. Odds are you didn't put any money down and are driving only through the warranty period. If things go wrong prior to lease end (usually 3 years) you'd also be on the hook with a traditional purchase as well. Like all else, it depends on how much homework you did to get a good deal.

Some people prefer having cash in pocket today than hoping they'd have more tomorrow. Same goes for housing, albeit, housing was/is? a safer bet for stability and appreciation of capital. Not everyone is sure they'll be happy with a long term commitment or chance being stuck with payments on car they aren't satisfied with while also paying for out of warranty repairs. Some people would rather not roll that dice. Nothing wrong with it.

As a car enthusiast I prefer to swap out of cars every few years rather than be stuck making a few more years worth of payments on a used car out of warranty. Not to mention a newer improved model out. I only mod my cars out of warranty and when I do I never consider them to return on my investment. Sure it's not financially the most prudent, but I also plan on buying a PS4, an Iphone5 and got rid of my old CRT TV a few years ago.

Leasing got a bad rap from the shady deals from dealerships who played with the numbers long ago. This info is available online, just like invoice, holdbacks etc... This isn't 1980

Money isn't the last thing I worry about, it just isn't the only thing.

[silver91]

This myth is brought to you in part by our sponsors who believe the following:

"Change your oil every 3000 miles"
"American cars are unreliable"
"Korean cars are junk"
"Only drive automatic if there is no manual available"
"the internet is unsafe, I'd rather do things through the mail"
and "paying for your car entirely in cash is always better than a low interest loan."

Seriously, a lease can be better if it's subsidized and you don't plan on keeping the car a few extra years beyond the warranty expiration. Many lease deals provide a great residual value at a low interest rate. Many manufacturers allow you to "sell" your leased car for a profit at lease end, just like a purchase. Most lease virgins aren't aware of this. You really don't own anything until the car is paid for even when not leasing. Odds are you didn't put any money down and are driving only through the warranty period. If things go wrong prior to lease end (usually 3 years) you'd also be on the hook with a traditional purchase as well. Like all else, it depends on how much homework you did to get a good deal.

Some people prefer having cash in pocket today than hoping they'd have more tomorrow. Same goes for housing, albeit, housing was/is? a safer bet for stability and appreciation of capital. Not everyone is sure they'll be happy with a long term commitment or chance being stuck with payments on car they aren't satisfied with while also paying for out of warranty repairs. Some people would rather not roll that dice. Nothing wrong with it.

As a car enthusiast I prefer to swap out of cars every few years rather than be stuck making a few more years worth of payments on a used car out of warranty. Not to mention a newer improved model out. I only mod my cars out of warranty and when I do I never consider them to return on my investment. Sure it's not financially the most prudent, but I also plan on buying a PS4, an Iphone5 and got rid of my old CRT TV a few years ago.

Leasing got a bad rap from the shady deals from dealerships who played with the numbers long ago. This info is available online, just like invoice, holdbacks etc... This isn't 1980

Money isn't the last thing I worry about, it just isn't the only thing.

Are you serious???
I’m not that old and have no idea what was in 1980 – was only 12
Yes I believe Korean car are less reliable and personally will not buy it – have my own preferences.
My wife drives 09 Tahoe – and we cannot say it is unreliable, but it is AMERICAN.
Every 3,000 to change the oil?????? People, fully synthetic oil good for 10,000+
At 18 I drive a stick and got tired staying in the traffic and pressing clutch million times.
Mail???? In 21 century, but thanks for keeping the conversation
And YOU WILL LOSE MORE WHEN YOU LEASE.
Lease – less down, a little less every month and end up with no car.
Lease for the people who do not know math or someone told it is better or worst of all wants to drive a Ferrari having enough only for a Civic.
12,000 per year??? Are you going on a family vacation at least couple times a year. Any depreciation won’t lower car price as much as you will throw money on lease after 12k a year, and if you will go over – it is +$$$$$
Come on, buy for cash and you do not have enough buy a cheaper car or get a low rate finance.
This is a joke and written by the person who is really believe in what someone said or looked at manufacturer website.
“Many lease deals provide a great residual value at a low interest rate. Many manufacturers allow you to "sell" your leased car for a profit at lease end, just like a purchase. Most lease virgins aren't aware of this. You really don't own anything until the car is paid for even when not leasing. Odds are you didn't put any money down and are driving only through the warranty period.” Yes - sell it and give all the money. It is even better for them - less headache any way they can not lease it anymore.
Go to dealer and leave your old car as a down payment - a lot of people do it and think it is OK. Very, very not smart. Dealer will give you 50% the most of the car value and makes it sound like you are getting a good deal offering a discount on a new vehicle he will offer anyway if you are serious.
IT IS 2012 - USE AN INTERNET AND SELL IT BY SELF.
Cash – cheapest
Low rate finance more expensive
Lease – most expensive option
And IT IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. The point is if you lease you will lose the most. Well, not if you rent.



Get tired to write, but like this forum, and like the cars... most of all

[daveg243]

I am serious and here's why.

YOU WILL LOSE MORE WHEN YOU LEASE. Not always. I've leased a Tiguan and purchased another. Sold both in 3 years. Lease was cheaper. FACT. Not everyone gets to the break even point on purchases. Some people just prefer to switch out of cars or rather not own an out of warranty vehicle.

"Lease you end up with no car." Finance you end up with no car while making payments... ask the repo guys . Lease you can purchase and renegotiate terms if you chose, completely up to you. You also build equity in a lease. FACT. Buying the car outright and keeping it forever will be cheaper of course. Not everyone wants a car forever and sometimes the maintenance on an older vehicle is more expensive than just buying a new one and driving it till it needs major work. Plus with a lease you don't get a surpise repair you pay for out of pocket and might not be able to cover. Ask any germany car owner if they'd rather be under a warranty.

"12,000 per year??? Are you going on a family vacation at least couple times a year. Any depreciation won’t lower car price as much as you will throw money on lease after 12k a year, and if you will go over – it is +$$$$$" I fly to my vacations Both a leased car and finaced car depreciates more with excessive mileage. Lease mileage can be negotiated, not all leases are 10-15k and knowing your habits can save you money. If you have a brain and factor this in when you sign a lease, you'll be fine. Additionally many dealers waive milage if you lease again or buy a car from them. In cases where you will need substantial mileage financing makes more sense. But that 5 year old car with 200k miles is going to be worth less than one with 50k regardless. FACT.

"Come on, buy for cash and you do not have enough buy a cheaper car or get a low rate finance."

You can often get a lower interest rate on a lease than a finance since the bank subsidizes many leases. Not always, it depends. My Golf lease is at 1.72% vs the 1.9% they were offering to purchase at the time. I'm lloking to upgade to a GTI next time. Glad I'm leasing.

Cash is wasted if you can get a 0-2% loan since you can put the money to better use than giving the dealer money that could be in your pocket working for you. FACT.

"Go to dealer and leave your old car as a down payment - a lot of people do it and think it is OK. Very, very not smart. Dealer will give you 50% the most of the car value and makes it sound like you are getting a good deal offering a discount on a new vehicle he will offer anyway if you are serious."

I've never gotten less than 15% of private value at a trade in once tax savings are factored in. Trade-in price is deducted from the new car purchase price, lowering your tax liability. FACT.

Anyone who trades in their car for 50% less than private is a moron. Blue book values between private and trade in usually differ 20-25%. Once you factor in tax savings, time invested selling car, advertising, and showing it to complete strangers, the difference isn't so substantial. Plus not everyone is comfortable being a salesman with strangers "trying out" your car on weekends and being lowballed to death. To some, this time and hassle might not be worth 10% more cash vs trade-in after taxes. It's cheaper to do a lot of house repairs but I'd rather have a pro do some of the more nasty stuff. Cheaper isn't always better necessarily.

When you Lease you can enjoy the lower payments vs a traditional finance for the term and still make a profit depending on the bank who leases the vehicle. The savings in monthly payments is more money you can decide to invest or spend as you wish. Or you can be out 10 grand and find out you need cash for something else unexpected.

"Lease – most expensive option"
Don't believe me, purchase a car and sell it in 2-3 yearsor try a lease. These blanket statements are false.

I suggest you check out
Ridewithg.com and look into leasing discussions since it appears you have some catching up to do.

[CorradoMagic]

How did this thread turn into a Lease vs Buy... which is better thread?

The OP asked about a lease, I am going to lease. Ppl. lease for a variety of reasons, some stated.
There are pros & cons to both leasing & financing.

I will personally lease this car for many reasons.
I have 2 other cars, I'm not selling or trading anything in.
I have 2 other cars, I can save a few $ a mo by selecting 10k mi/yr
You can trade in lease's early towards newer cars if you want.
As a business owner, I can write off my entire lease payment as a company vehicle(since I have others). This includes the insurance, fuel, etc. If I purchased a vehicle, the write-off amount is pro-rated.
If this rather new Mini model turns out to be problematic(already has quite a few known issues), I can cut my losses in 36mo. (*and not loose the huge down payment)
I can better utilize a larger cash amount(DP, taxes) for better investments(like my business) vs putting down $8-10K.
I dont want a $700 a/mo payment.
The difference in finance vs lease % is minimal, I have good credit.
I have the option to buy, think of it as a cheap 36mo test drive.
(kinda like making the big down payment after I drive it 36mos., if I purchase the car then, the total amount paid is still my CAP cost(the original negotiated total vehicle cost). I have the option to pay this outright, finance it, trade the car it, extend my warranty, or cut my losses.

This is not my first new car purchase or lease. I do understand the idea that leaseing is like renting, you dont get anything for your money, but that thought is very simple minded & short sighted.

[CorradoMagic]

went to Mini today & took the Take Down Challenge. I was told I can not use the $750 credit because I will not take delivery (built to spec) of the vehicle likely before July 7th or something close to that date.

I was given $1500 off MSRP
the lease MF was reduced to .00185

To me the Mini lease is still pretty high,thats 4.44% on 36mo/12K, 58% residue on Countryman All4

So,I dont qualify for the $750 because MINI doesnt have the car I want in stock.
My reduced MSRP was basically about 4.8%. With MINI getting 9% over invoice I am going back tmrw to hopefully order a car & either ruduce the finance fee or get an additional discount.

If neither of those happen, a few dealer accessories would be nice. Like mats or something..

[daveg243]

BMW lets you bring down the MF with multiple security deposits. Shaves a few off the MF and you get the money back at lease end. But, you "lose" that money during during the term so to speak. Not sure if Mini does it. Worth asking.

gurinder11
MF is just interest rate that you multiply by 2400 (.00185 x 2400 =4.44%)
Residual is just expected value at end of term (buyout price). Higher residual = less depreciation.