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    Thread: Father, 9 year old daughter dead after speeding teen in Escalade mows them down.

    1. Moderator PsyberVW's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 06:37 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Mrdeezy View Post
      accidents happen. Thats why they are called an accident.

      Let's get over this obsession of "justice" and look at things as they are.
      Accidents assume no fault on either side. This was not an accident- this was an event spurred by gross negligence.

    2. 04-07-2012 06:40 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Mrdeezy View Post
      accidents happen. Thats why they are called an accident.

      Let's get over this obsession of "justice" and look at things as they are.

      Really?
      Are you that dense? Or just extremely young?

    3. Get Off My Lawn!!! vwlarry's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 06:41 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      Accidents assume no fault on either side. This was not an accident- this was an event spurred by gross negligence.
      Thank you for steering this thread back into the land of reality.
      Do you enjoy old cars and long-winded stories about them? If your answer is "yes", then you might enjoy my blogpage. Try it here: http://vwlarry.blogspot.com . Leave a comment, too; I love feedback! Thanx for reading.

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    4. 04-07-2012 06:44 PM #29
      I find it hard to believe that people want to compare the SUV driver to murderers who walk. There is a differece between planning and intentionally killing somebody and a dumb ass kid who crashes into something, which in this case just happens to be people. 90% of teenage drivers drive just as stupid as this kid, the difference is that most of them just didn't happen to hit a pedestrian, or if they did it's usually in a Civic or a golf, not a giant SUV. Who knows if it even was the kids fault, people on bicycles do some stupid **** at times, and if it is his fault he deserves the 2 counts of manslaughter or negligent homicide or whatever it is but he's not a murderer

    5. Get Off My Lawn!!! vwlarry's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 06:50 PM #30
      Gee whiz, that sure was a short trip back to reality!
      Do you enjoy old cars and long-winded stories about them? If your answer is "yes", then you might enjoy my blogpage. Try it here: http://vwlarry.blogspot.com . Leave a comment, too; I love feedback! Thanx for reading.

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    6. Member Mr Miyagi's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 06:53 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by blackvento36 View Post
      I find it hard to believe that people want to compare the SUV driver to murderers who walk. There is a differece between planning and intentionally killing somebody and a dumb ass kid who crashes into something, which in this case just happens to be people. 90% of teenage drivers drive just as stupid as this kid, the difference is that most of them just didn't happen to hit a pedestrian, or if they did it's usually in a Civic or a golf, not a giant SUV. Who knows if it even was the kids fault, people on bicycles do some stupid **** at times, and if it is his fault he deserves the 2 counts of manslaughter or negligent homicide or whatever it is but he's not a murderer
      Everybody is responsible for their actions. We had this debate in class a few weeks ago, and its ridiculous the amount of people that believe if you're young and stupid you should get away with ****. Just ridiculous. EVERYONE is accountable for EVERYTHING they do.

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      04-07-2012 06:54 PM #32
      The posted speed limit is 45 MPH; which means that the vehicle could've been driven at 50 MPH, and BARELY been speeding. The damage to the suv looks about right for a 45-50mph crash. There are too many unknowns for any of us to rationally pass judgement. If this was a 25 MPH zone it would be a different story.

      I'm not saying that the driver wasn't grossly negligent, but I will admit that when I clicked on this thread; I didn't think that I was going to see an accident in a 45 MPH zone...

    8. Member Mr Miyagi's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 06:56 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by dubinsincuwereindiapers View Post
      The posted speed limit is 45 MPH; which means that the vehicle could've been driven at 50 MPH, and BARELY been speeding. The damage to the suv looks about right for a 45-50mph crash. There are too many unknowns for any of us to rationally pass judgement. If this was a 25 MPH zone it would be a different story.

      I'm not saying that the driver wasn't grossly negligent, but I will admit that when I clicked on this thread; I didn't think that I was going to see an accident in a 45 MPH zone...
      Weird to have such a high speed limit in that kind of zone

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      04-07-2012 07:09 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr Miyagi View Post
      Weird to have such a high speed limit in that kind of zone
      I agree. However; we can't just assume that the driver of the suv is at fault, when someone was riding bicycle with a child on what pretty much amounts to a highway.
      What if the suv driver was cruising along at the posted speed limit, passing freely at speed through a green light, another car blew the red light or turned right on red without looking into the path of that suv, the suv driver then jerks the wheel to avoid the collision, ends up unintentionally plowing over these two?

      That was just one possible scenario.

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      04-07-2012 07:11 PM #35
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    11. 04-07-2012 07:29 PM #36
      What a terrible accident. My condolences go out to everyone affected by this. R.I.P.

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      04-07-2012 07:33 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      Accidents assume no fault on either side. This was not an accident- this was an event spurred by gross negligence.
      Without any info on how the driver lost control of the vehicle, it's maybe a bit hasty to claim "gross negligence". All the story says is that witnesses noticed the Escalade travelling at a high rate of speed. He might've lost control because the vehicle failed in some way, or because he had to swerve in order to avoid hitting something (or in order to avoid being hit by someone), or who knows what else.

      Also, that bit of road has a 45mph speed limit and it's three lanes, with lots of turn-ins and the like. Probably not a very comfortable place to drive even for a skilled driver.

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      04-07-2012 07:36 PM #38
      IMHO when I look at the pictures, and read what happens I tend to believe the teen was driving that SUV a bit faster then 45 maybe 60, and thought he could handle it at that speed and who knows what happened to cause him to loose control, maybe a tire blew, maybe something jumped out in front of him, maybe as stated earlier he had to serve to miss hitting something, truck hits the curb, he looses it and they were jus 2 people that were caught in the middle of a bad situation or maybe they were the ones to cause it. Living in NYC and driving there I can say cyclist often think those bikes are jus as tough as cars and 18 wheelers, I have seen a few accidents of cyclist getting bumped and hit by taxis and such. Its jus a shame someone so young was involved.
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    14. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      04-07-2012 07:38 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by dubinsincuwereindiapers View Post
      I agree. However; we can't just assume that the driver of the suv is at fault, when someone was riding bicycle with a child on what pretty much amounts to a highway.
      What if the suv driver was cruising along at the posted speed limit, passing freely at speed through a green light, another car blew the red light or turned right on red without looking into the path of that suv, the suv driver then jerks the wheel to avoid the collision, ends up unintentionally plowing over these two?
      Yeah, it is a divided 4 lane road. 45 mph isn't completely unreasonable, certainly not when it is posted. I'm not sure that I trust untrained witnesses to judge "speeding" when we're not talking double the speed limit (if the vehicle was doing much more than 50-60, I would expect more damage to it.)
      This doesn't mean the driver isn't possibly at fault, perhaps reckless and grossly negligent, but I'm not sure I'm going to draw conclusions based on that article.
      It is tragic, and I'm not going to minimize how horrible it is, but I'm not going to say it rises above mere negligence without more facts.

      ----

      That said, out of respect for the dead, would it be possible for this thread not descend into bike bashing and victim blaming?
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    15. Member .andreas's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 07:48 PM #40
      Don't forget, that kid has to live with the fact that he killed a father and his daughter. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

    16. 04-07-2012 07:48 PM #41
      My prediction: due to the ethnicity if those killed and the driver, Jesse Jackson's "Rent-A-Mob" won't be called in.


      The facts will determine if this was actually an accident, or negligent vehicular manslaughter. I would expect the police are pulling the ECU to look at speed/braking etc.

      However, I would imagine that most teenage drivers do not have the training/experience to drive what is basically an agricultural tractor on a public street.
      "You'll have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

    17. Member bringtheshred's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 08:01 PM #42


      This "accident" woke the dead...

      Seriously is a tragedy though I don't know why anyone is defending the driver and saying the cyclists are at fault..

    18. Member 302W's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 08:27 PM #43
      That's awful, I wish I could say I didn't drive like a jackass when I was a teenager though. Scary to think of the times that it could have ended like this.
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    19. Banned roadtripper's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 08:47 PM #44
      the more i look at those pictures, the more i think my nine year old would have to be tony hawk before i'd trust him riding a bike in that environment. 45? i'd almost rather he ride on the side of the road in a 25 than on the sidewalk on a four lane 45. scary.

      there is always negligence to go around. and as someone mentioned, surely this teenager did not intend to be a killer. if he's joey slice with daddy's sclade on the way home from scoring meth, hang 'em high. but convicting anyone on a newspaper quote? nope.

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      04-07-2012 09:03 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by bringtheshred View Post


      This "accident" woke the dead...

      Seriously is a tragedy though I don't know why anyone is defending the driver and saying the cyclists are at fault..
      Nobody blamed the cyclists. We simply don't know enough to claim negligence on the part of the driver. It happened on what amounts to, essentially a highway. There's not enough damage to the suv, to jump to the conclusion that the suv was traveling much faster than the posted speed limit. The photo shows the accident scene to be an intersection.

      There's too many variables here; for us to immediately jump to the conclusion that "zomg! Some teenager was FLYING in a giant, evil Mack truck, while texting, and smoking crack, and intentionally mowed down an innocent family!"..

      This accident is an aweful tragedy. Noone in their right mind would dispute that. We don't have enough information at our disposal however to assume the driver was guilty of negligence.

      Ill say it again.. If this happened in a 25 MPH zone; id be calling for the driver's head on a stick! This was not the case though.

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      04-07-2012 09:11 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by dubinsincuwereindiapers View Post
      I agree. However; we can't just assume that the driver of the suv is at fault, when someone was riding bicycle with a child on what pretty much amounts to a highway.
      What if the suv driver was cruising along at the posted speed limit, passing freely at speed through a green light, another car blew the red light or turned right on red without looking into the path of that suv, the suv driver then jerks the wheel to avoid the collision, ends up unintentionally plowing over these two?

      That was just one possible scenario.
      yes we can they were talking on a cell phone...
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      04-07-2012 09:21 PM #47
      Maybe they were trying avoid a cyclist who was taking up an entire lane and then lost control of the suv

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      04-07-2012 09:34 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by roadtripper View Post
      the more i look at those pictures, the more i think my nine year old would have to be tony hawk before i'd trust him riding a bike in that environment.
      Tony Hawk rides a skateboard. Just letting you know.

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      04-07-2012 09:39 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      That said, out of respect for the dead, would it be possible for this thread not descend into bike bashing and victim blaming?
      this
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      04-08-2012 12:37 AM #50


      he's probably ok on roller blades, too.

      but you get the point, right? tinker juarez isn't exactly a household name.

      my kid's no pro. but even if he were, we wouldn't be riding there.

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