Father, 9 year old daughter dead after speeding teen in Escalade mows them down.

[kevin160]

What a terrible accident. My condolences go out to everyone affected by this. R.I.P.

[warren_s]

Accidents assume no fault on either side. This was not an accident- this was an event spurred by gross negligence.

Without any info on how the driver lost control of the vehicle, it's maybe a bit hasty to claim "gross negligence". All the story says is that witnesses noticed the Escalade travelling at a high rate of speed. He might've lost control because the vehicle failed in some way, or because he had to swerve in order to avoid hitting something (or in order to avoid being hit by someone), or who knows what else.

Also, that bit of road has a 45mph speed limit and it's three lanes, with lots of turn-ins and the like. Probably not a very comfortable place to drive even for a skilled driver.

[96BlKjEt]

IMHO when I look at the pictures, and read what happens I tend to believe the teen was driving that SUV a bit faster then 45 maybe 60, and thought he could handle it at that speed and who knows what happened to cause him to loose control, maybe a tire blew, maybe something jumped out in front of him, maybe as stated earlier he had to serve to miss hitting something, truck hits the curb, he looses it and they were jus 2 people that were caught in the middle of a bad situation or maybe they were the ones to cause it. Living in NYC and driving there I can say cyclist often think those bikes are jus as tough as cars and 18 wheelers, I have seen a few accidents of cyclist getting bumped and hit by taxis and such. Its jus a shame someone so young was involved.

[nm+]

I agree. However; we can't just assume that the driver of the suv is at fault, when someone was riding bicycle with a child on what pretty much amounts to a highway.
What if the suv driver was cruising along at the posted speed limit, passing freely at speed through a green light, another car blew the red light or turned right on red without looking into the path of that suv, the suv driver then jerks the wheel to avoid the collision, ends up unintentionally plowing over these two?

Yeah, it is a divided 4 lane road. 45 mph isn't completely unreasonable, certainly not when it is posted. I'm not sure that I trust untrained witnesses to judge "speeding" when we're not talking double the speed limit (if the vehicle was doing much more than 50-60, I would expect more damage to it.)
This doesn't mean the driver isn't possibly at fault, perhaps reckless and grossly negligent, but I'm not sure I'm going to draw conclusions based on that article.
It is tragic, and I'm not going to minimize how horrible it is, but I'm not going to say it rises above mere negligence without more facts.

----

That said, out of respect for the dead, would it be possible for this thread not descend into bike bashing and victim blaming?

[.andreas]

Don't forget, that kid has to live with the fact that he killed a father and his daughter. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

[JLJetta]

My prediction: due to the ethnicity if those killed and the driver, Jesse Jackson's "Rent-A-Mob" won't be called in.


The facts will determine if this was actually an accident, or negligent vehicular manslaughter. I would expect the police are pulling the ECU to look at speed/braking etc.

However, I would imagine that most teenage drivers do not have the training/experience to drive what is basically an agricultural tractor on a public street.

[bringtheshred]

This "accident" woke the dead...

Seriously is a tragedy though I don't know why anyone is defending the driver and saying the cyclists are at fault..

[302W]

That's awful, I wish I could say I didn't drive like a jackass when I was a teenager though. Scary to think of the times that it could have ended like this.

[roadtripper]

the more i look at those pictures, the more i think my nine year old would have to be tony hawk before i'd trust him riding a bike in that environment. 45? i'd almost rather he ride on the side of the road in a 25 than on the sidewalk on a four lane 45. scary.

there is always negligence to go around. and as someone mentioned, surely this teenager did not intend to be a killer. if he's joey slice with daddy's sclade on the way home from scoring meth, hang 'em high. but convicting anyone on a newspaper quote? nope.

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

This "accident" woke the dead...

Seriously is a tragedy though I don't know why anyone is defending the driver and saying the cyclists are at fault..

Nobody blamed the cyclists. We simply don't know enough to claim negligence on the part of the driver. It happened on what amounts to, essentially a highway. There's not enough damage to the suv, to jump to the conclusion that the suv was traveling much faster than the posted speed limit. The photo shows the accident scene to be an intersection.

There's too many variables here; for us to immediately jump to the conclusion that "zomg! Some teenager was FLYING in a giant, evil Mack truck, while texting, and smoking crack, and intentionally mowed down an innocent family!"..

This accident is an aweful tragedy. Noone in their right mind would dispute that. We don't have enough information at our disposal however to assume the driver was guilty of negligence.

Ill say it again.. If this happened in a 25 MPH zone; id be calling for the driver's head on a stick! This was not the case though.

[dirtylowslo]

I agree. However; we can't just assume that the driver of the suv is at fault, when someone was riding bicycle with a child on what pretty much amounts to a highway.
What if the suv driver was cruising along at the posted speed limit, passing freely at speed through a green light, another car blew the red light or turned right on red without looking into the path of that suv, the suv driver then jerks the wheel to avoid the collision, ends up unintentionally plowing over these two?

That was just one possible scenario.

yes we can they were talking on a cell phone...

[AggvGtivr6]

Maybe they were trying avoid a cyclist who was taking up an entire lane and then lost control of the suv

[Horror Business]

the more i look at those pictures, the more i think my nine year old would have to be tony hawk before i'd trust him riding a bike in that environment.

Tony Hawk rides a skateboard. Just letting you know.

[rains]

That said, out of respect for the dead, would it be possible for this thread not descend into bike bashing and victim blaming?

this

[roadtripper]

he's probably ok on roller blades, too.

but you get the point, right? tinker juarez isn't exactly a household name.

my kid's no pro. but even if he were, we wouldn't be riding there.

[H3LVTCA]

The ****?

[VTECeateR]

Maybe they were trying avoid a cyclist who was taking up an entire lane and then lost control of the suv

You think that ANYONE (especially with children) would dare ride in that street?

[VTECeateR]

This should clear some stuff up.

[aoj2108]

^^^ Well now that we know the victims were of Middle Eastern descent and possibly muslims, I wonder how many people here will change their opinions on what occurred. It's a shame 2 people had to lose their souls , but the document states that the driver will be charged with vehicular manslaughter and that's all it is unfortunately. Unless someone can prove that he intentionally steered the truck to plow into them, there was no intent to murder.

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

^^^ Well now that we know the victims were of Middle Eastern descent and possibly muslims, I wonder how many people here will change their opinions on what occurred. It's a shame 2 people had to lose their souls , but the document states that the driver will be charged with vehicular manslaughter and that's all it is unfortunately. Unless someone can prove that he intentionally steered the truck to plow into them, there was no intent to murder.

[feels_road]

The loved ones left behind will spend the rest of their lives dying.

Tell me - I lost two children.

this may come off as cruel, but if i took my 9 year old for a bike ride through a busily trafficked intersection, i would probably be stopped, harassed, and ticketed. i would never take someone else's kid on such a trip.

This is a very suburban neighborhood - the street just happens to be one of two with a lot of traffic accommodating even farther suburban neighborhoods. There are at least three schools immediately adjacent to the intersection, and parks and walking/bicycling trails. The speed limit would be 35 if not for the massive amount of traffic going through. Also, the street is perfectly straight, with very good visibility.

To boot, from what I read, they were riding on the very wide side-walk.

...although it's unlikely anyone need excuse the driver no matter the circumstances, i'm curious how much heavier the hatred/rush to judgement is b/c of the sclade. if it was a prius, would the reaction be quite so vitriolic?

I agree. Because of their weight and lack of protection against pedestrians/ bicyclists, I strongly believe that (non-CUV) SUVs should not be driven by anyone with fewer than five years of driving experience.

Weird to have such a high speed limit in that kind of zone

As I said above, it is because of the sheer throughput of traffic during rush-hour (not the case, here, though).

Also, that bit of road has a 45mph speed limit and it's three lanes, with lots of turn-ins and the like. Probably not a very comfortable place to drive even for a skilled driver.

It's a perfectly straight road with very good visibility. 45 is the max, and during non-rush-hour, many people drive more slowly than that, because it is a 100% residential neighborhood with lots of pedestrian and bicycle usage.

the more i look at those pictures, the more i think my nine year old would have to be tony hawk before i'd trust him riding a bike in that environment. 45? i'd almost rather he ride on the side of the road in a 25 than on the sidewalk on a four lane 45. scary.

If you are on the sidewalk, you'd feel perfectly safe. It's a straight road with many stop lights. I almost bought a house there a couple of minutes away, several years ago.

[geofftii2002]

might have been a female driver...

Seriously, don't start that ****. There's a dead dad and 9 year old child. Grow up or shut the F up.

Loser.

[RQ1]

[EuroOEM]

Seriously, don't start that ****. There's a dead dad and 9 year old child. Grow up or shut the F up.

Loser.

Thank you!

[Air-over-water]

Tony Hawk rides a skateboard. Just letting you know.

I think he has been riding bikes for over 25 years.

[PSU]

Absolutely sickening.

RIP to the father and the daughter.

[VTECeateR]

@ FeelsRoad, I'm not sure how you lost your children but I'm sorry.

And secondly, we should have an East Bay TCL meet someday.

[Mooosman]

The driver was arrested for vehicular manslaughter, but he is only 17 years old. I guess the question now is will they try him as an adult or a juvenile?


I wonder what the difference in sentencing would be between the two?

[dieselraver]

my heart goes out to that family...

[dieselraver]

does the escalade meat that european pedestrian collision safety rating thing?

[Air-over-water]

does the escalade meat that european pedestrian collision safety rating thing?

Doubtful.

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

does the escalade meat that european pedestrian collision safety rating thing?

Are we in Europe?

[SpeedyD]

Now it's been established that the persons killed were on the sidewalk. Can we stop blaming them now, simply because they were on bicycles? Care to make any more excuses for the driver?

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

Now it's been established that the persons killed were on the sidewalk. Can we stop blaming them now, simply because they were on bicycles? Care to make any more excuses for the driver?

Not a single poster in this thread blamed the victims.

Reading Comprehension > You

[bringtheshred]

Nobody blamed the cyclists. We simply don't know enough to claim negligence on the part of the driver. It happened on what amounts to, essentially a highway. There's not enough damage to the suv, to jump to the conclusion that the suv was traveling much faster than the posted speed limit. The photo shows the accident scene to be an intersection.

There's too many variables here; for us to immediately jump to the conclusion that "zomg! Some teenager was FLYING in a giant, evil Mack truck, while texting, and smoking crack, and intentionally mowed down an innocent family!"..

This accident is an aweful tragedy. Noone in their right mind would dispute that. We don't have enough information at our disposal however to assume the driver was guilty of negligence.

Ill say it again.. If this happened in a 25 MPH zone; id be calling for the driver's head on a stick! This was not the case though.

I never said everybody was defending the driver. Just was pointing out the fact that there is a SKELETON propped up and positioned so it's peeking out the blinds of that window in the background and that this was tragic... The comments on the linked website are all idiotic.