APR Stage 1 Whistle sound?

[Dutchmastr9]

Well you WERE helpful .

Dude I told you what I'm pretty sure it is. Relax, there is nothing wrong with your car. No need to make a big deal about it and get your panties in a bunch. If you are really that concerned maybe you shouldn't be modding your car

[GLXtc]

Dude..are all you guys on here 12 or what... why can't I ask a question without a bunch of jacka*s comments?

I appreciated your SEMI thoughtful response in the sea on stupidity, but then you went right along with it...why? why can't I ask a question?

Btw...you told me what you THOUGHT it was...not what it is.
I'll continue my conversation offline with Arin as the other unhelpful poster suggested. And here I thought I could get an answer and share it with other Vortexers. I come back to the Vortex after 10 years and this is what it is like.... depressing.

\

[BRSomm]

I was hoping Arin could give us some insight.
I got my car flashed to stage1 yesterday and I now there is a whistle sound right at 3000-4000 rpm in 3rd and 4th at WOT. It sounds like a leak..or even almost mechanical in sound. or high pitched honk?
Arin ...Could you give us some insight into what this is so we don't worry for no reason? Like reassuring us that this isn't the clutch starting to slip at peak torque?

Anyone else hearing this and knows what I am talking about?
Maybe someone with stage1+ can let us know if this goes away with the high flow pump installed?

This is a 93 octane flash but this guy with 91 octane and several others in this thread have the same noise.
Here is the other thread

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ht=whistle+apr

Just did 1+ 93 octane and have the whistle sound. LOVING IT!!!!!

It's either the turbo or a hell of a coincidence that it's happening on a pile of cars.

[GLXtc]

I don't think you guys are hearing what I am hearing. It is not the turbo spooling. (the turbine jet sound). I know what a turbo sounds like.
But this sound sounds like a valve fluttering open... very annoying and disconcerting.

Here is a video...the shuttering whistle sound ... It is a lot louder than the video makes it out to be. I accelerate and you can hear it twice in the vid. Best heard at the beginning. Sorry for quality...did it on drive to work.



http://youtu.be/dSiqOiRfX9U

[GLXtc]

FYI...someone with similiar sound on a tuned GTI got this response from mike at Forge in another forum....

They were speculating that it was the n75 valve that controls the wastegate BUT

"Sorry guys, but it's the wastegate getting blown open that causes that particular sound.

The N75 solenoid doesn't produce any sound, and it certainly doesn't apply any substantial level of vacuum to the actuator to actually keep it closed. When it is duty cycling, it is simply bypassing the pressure signal away from the actuator, and the 1-2 inches of vacuum from the turbo inlet is applied to the actuator instead, so the actuator is simply resting in a static position trying to keep the wastegate flapper closed against all of the exhaust gas flowing through the turbo.

The problem is, you have a 4 PSI wastegate spring and MAYBE 1-2 inches of vacuum applied on top of that, so a total of 5-6 PSI trying to sustain 20+ PSI of exhaust gas pressure flowing through the turbo. Once the turbo spools to peak boost so quickly and the exhaust gas pressure exceeds the spring tension, it will blow it open causing a momentary relief, then the pressure builds again until it forces the flapper open again, then it builds again and bleeds again in rapid succession over and over creating the fluttering sound, commonly refered to as wastegate chatter.

A stiffer actuator spring, achieved either by tightening the stock unit, or replacing it with a unit with a stiffer spring, is the only remedy."

[Siliconrane]

Wastegate flutter. I hear it all the time on mine.

[Dutchmastr9]

Wastegate flutter. I hear it all the time on mine.

this, what more do you want us to tell you

[Arin@APR]

Probably? You guys didn't experience the same sounds while testing? It definately is not the turbo. If anything it is the wastegate opening..just slightly...should this be happening? If I describe it better it is more of a sustained high pitch honk. If I get a chance I'll record it.

Except for when the turbo is spooling, the waste gate is always open to some degree.

I said probably because I haven't heard your sound, however I do know turbos can whistle.

http://youtu.be/dSiqOiRfX9U

That's the turbo and that sound is normal on the Golf R.

[GTIVRon]

I thought that under heavy load the wastegate stays closed until it hits desired boost. If not, that would be a very easy way to reduce turbo lag, because from my understanding that is how it's supposed to work.

From the video it just sounds like turbulant air. I think many times it's caused by the accordion style intake plumbing.

[GLXtc]

Dutch...I'm not sure what your issue is man..why are you so intent on me accepting what you said without any questions? ...I have no problem with you. If you have nothing constructive. Just stay out of it. Same goes for everyone really. Why can't we have some intellectual content with real value?..not... It's your turbo Dawg..and Stop being a pus*y..don't mod your car....etc..
That being said...from here on out..I am just ignoring the ignorant posts.
----------
Back on track

I thought that under heavy load the wastegate stays closed until it hits desired boost. If not, that would be a very easy way to reduce turbo lag, because from my understanding that is how it's supposed to work.

Exactly... This sound seems like,once tuned, too much boost at too low RPM...(engine can't ingest) At low rpm full throttle (3700) Wastegate opens slightly to not exceed boost level(sound..high pressure air going past wastgate)...until engine RPM rises 4200rpm..engine can now ingest more air..wastegate closes...(and sound goes away.)

OR..at low RPM/ high boost...the diverter valve is leaking..but that seems to be established that it is not a problem with new upgraded piston OEM valve.

Seriously guys..I am not freaking out...I think the tune seems great... Just curious.. i thought we all could have an actual discussion about this. It's frustrating...
None of my other turbo cars ever made an annoying sound like this. They all made more pronounced spooling sounds but nothing like this. I was hoping I could remedy it somehow.... (beyond some smarta*s* saying...you shouldn't chip your car)

With all due respect Arin... I appreciate your response to my PM and here in my thread...but..your answer.."that is just what it does" is a let down... Can you contribute to an actual technical discussion about the cause? I promise not to give you a hard time.
I know you feel like we will not know what you are talking about...But personally, I would actually like to understand..not just blindly accept it. Or even understand why I can't fix it.... whatever...just have an actual discussion.

[Arin@APR]

With all due respect Arin... I appreciate your response to my PM and here in my thread...but..your answer.."that is just what it does" is a let down... Can you contribute to an actual technical discussion about the cause?

It's caused by turbulent airflow at boost onset. The factory K04 includes a noise muffler that's designed to lessen the sound as it's even present when completely stock, however to a lesser degree. Also, the slots in the muffer do seem to help promote a type of whistle sound in the right conditions, simliar to blowing over a coke bottle.

[GTIVRon]

Dutch...I'm not sure what your issue is man..why are you so intent on me accepting what you said without any questions? ...I have no problem with you. ...........

Probably because you asked a technical question in a General forum. According to dutch, this is only the place to flame people who dislike airbags, and purely to talk about stuff like getting lowz dawgz.

[GLXtc]

It's caused by turbulent airflow at boost onset. The factory K04 includes a noise muffler that's designed to lessen the sound as it's even present when completely stock, however to a lesser degree. Also, the slots in the muffer do seem to help promote a type of whistle sound in the right conditions, simliar to blowing over a coke bottle.

Interesting... Thanks Arin!
So even if I heard the wastgate functioning..(which I probably wouldn.t?)...It would not sound like this whistle?

Also... I see you guys removed this and have a smooth section on your K04 kit for the 1.8t

http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_...8_tsi_k04.html

Does this stop this from happening? Or.make it louder?

Thanks again!

[Arin@APR]

Interesting... Thanks Arin!
So even if I heard the wastgate functioning..(which I probably wouldn.t?)...It would not sound like this whistle?

You can't hear the wastegate flapping around on the car (even if it was).

Also... I see you guys removed this and have a smooth section on your K04 kit for the 1.8t

http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_...8_tsi_k04.html

Does this stop this from happening? Or.make it louder?

Thanks again!

On the TSI it must be removed or the turbo will not fit. The turbo is louder.

[GLXtc]

You can't hear the wastgatete flapping around on the car (even if it was).



On the TSI it must be removed or the turbo will not fit. The turbo is louder.

Ok..cool.. So it is not the wastgate.
When you say louder..do you mean the classic turbine spool sound is louder..or the bottle whistle /squawk is louder?

[jael013]

Hey its the fuel pump. Thats what happened to me

[GLXtc]

Hey its the fuel pump. Thats what happened to me

Hey man..can you clarify? What exactly happened..and on what car?
Thanks!

[BlackRabbit34]

Hey man..can you clarify? What exactly happened..and on what car?
Thanks!

It is slightly different than the fuel pump sound. That was more of a high pitch tighter whistle. This is not the fuel pump.

[Alive By time]

The only strange thing to me about that video is the key in the key hole.

[BlackRabbit34]

The only strange thing to me about that video is the key in the key hole.

Base model

[Alive By time]

Base model

i know lol c'monnnn

[BlackRabbit34]

i know lol c'monnnn

Lol. Some people are that stupid. I was just being polite and giving the answer instead of making fun :p

[jael013]

yea thats you fuel pump happened to me on my golf r. its a high pitched whistle go to th dealer and have then check i out. after they cange your fuelpump you will feel your car way faster

[jael013]

it happens when accelerating kind of feels like a wind breeze or a hole and air is comin inside

[triman11427]

Ok, I can confirm it happens in my car as well. It's when I'm WOT taking it up around 6000RPM I hear a definite whistle. It would make sense to me it is turbo related. Not in a bad way either.

[patrickj]

I got flashed today and noticed the whistle sound as well. Not sure what it is and am sure it is related to the flash as it wasn't happening before. I'll wait to see if someone is able to identify what the issue is and if it is a cause for concern.

GLXtc: Did reflashing remove the whistle?

[Alive By time]

I thought this was settled already

[betterthansx]

It sounds like boost creep to me. Boost creep can be dangerous. It, along with your BPV, allow your turbo to hit your target boost. With boost creep, your wastegate cannot hold the pressure that it needs and the pressure will leak and cause boost spikes. Boost spikes can cause the engine to run lean and go pop.

I know boost creep was a big thing in the Subaru world, anything with a TBE or stage 2 would have boost creep and need an external wastegate set up to remedy it, or port and polish the turbine housing.

These situations all sound like boost creep to me, but i haven't been around VW enough to know it it has been a problem or not?

[GLXtc]

So...as the pansy who started this thread..I'll just say...feel free to say I told you so.

Met Patrick today at NGP and he was getting his brand new R flashed. I was getting mine unflashed ONLY because I found the sound annoying... I was going to hook back up with Patrick and see if he heard this too. So thanks for checking in here man.

Flashed back to stock... and the sound is still there...just a LOT quieter...and not as pulsey(is that a word?) sounding. more even. This is NOT the turbo spooling though. Not that I doubted Arin...but he is right on the money when he says it is air over a bottle sounding turbulence. MUCH more pronounced on a flashed R.

I am 99% positive that is was always there..I just never noticed it until flashed (much louder) and the only reason I can notice it now is because I heard it in its louder version..otherwise I would have never noticed it.

Additionally... I got home today and was searching...K04 whistle..and guys in the Australian R forums were whining about the same thing ( and got the same rough treatment I got here ) and those guys were on several different flashes...not just APR.

So... in in it's FINAL conclusion ... I will be getting flashed back on Monday.
Patrick ... enjoy your car man... Sorry I was the guy you will remember as the guy that pointed out something you probably wouldn't have noticed otherwise.

Hopefully this thread is helpful to others who think they 'sploded their car.

Thanks to those that responded on here with useful info...to others... it's all good.. bring on the told you so's

And to everyone else.... it's your turbo dawg!


Also...why is my car so slow now? (kidding) I must be getting old.

[GLXtc]

It sounds like boost creep to me. Boost creep can be dangerous. It, along with your BPV, allow your turbo to hit your target boost. With boost creep, your wastegate cannot hold the pressure that it needs and the pressure will leak and cause boost spikes. Boost spikes can cause the engine to run lean and go pop.

I know boost creep was a big thing in the Subaru world, anything with a TBE or stage 2 would have boost creep and need an external wastegate set up to remedy it, or port and polish the turbine housing.

These situations all sound like boost creep to me, but i haven't been around VW enough to know it it has been a problem or not?

Not boost creep... That is a different beast all together. Boost creep is hitting the boost target..and then boost keeps building slowly beyond the target at WOT. Boost creep with a spike is...boost spikes past target..then comes down to target boost...and then starts creeping up again during WOT.
If anything the boost "mellows" out after the sound goes away. People's data logs have show that.

It is literally just a whistle sound at the onset of boost..2500-3000rpm until it goes away at 3500-4000... It just was unusual and disconcerting to me as I have never heard it on any of my other turbo cars. Apparently a standard KO4 thing

[pierovw]

I am stage 1 and I have that sound. When the whistle comes on my girlfriend always thinks the tires are spinning because of the power

I tried explaining it's the turbo but she doesn't get it, thinks it's annoying....

I LOVE IT

[JosephHatfield]

I am 99% positive that is was always there..I just never noticed it until flashed (much louder) and the only reason I can notice it now is because I heard it in its louder version..otherwise I would have never noticed it.

I wonder if the Soundaktor was intended, in part, to cover the sound of the whistle?

[GLXtc]

I am stage 1 and I have that sound. When the whistle comes on my girlfriend always thinks the tires are spinning because of the power

I tried explaining it's the turbo but she doesn't get it, thinks it's annoying....

I LOVE IT

Yeah...it definitely sounds like barely spinning your tires.
My only complaint is that it doesn't really sound like an intense turbine spool. It is a high pitched whistle that is not associated with the high rpm spinning/spooling of the turbo (which sounds great).

piero... sadly..I'm with your girlfriend and find it annoying. I think it would be less annoying if it was a more consistent even sound.

JoesephHatfield... that is possible... I have disconnected the sound generator.

Arin said in an earlier post
"It's caused by turbulent airflow at boost onset. The factory K04 includes a noise muffler that's designed to lessen the sound as it's even present when completely stock, however to a lesser degree."

[jsausley]

I just don't get why it annoys you. I like that little sound, especially since it only happens when you're going quickly. During normal driving you never hear it.

[Trackhead]

Just did 1+ 93 octane and have the whistle sound. LOVING IT!!!!!

It's either the turbo or a hell of a coincidence that it's happening on a pile of cars.

+1. Nobody's reporting any problems, so I'm just enjoying the sound.