: ) Why NOT to install a turbo on the G60 8v engine that was engineered for a supercharger!

[G60 Carat]

Safely run, has many variables... What is the condition of the unit? How hard is it boosted and the car driven? How much time does it stay in boost? What is the maintenance like....another question mark?
I personally have owned more than a few G60's and have never broken or blown a G60 g-lader. I've ran around with a 58mm. 65mm can be very safe on a good unit....even smaller. Depends on how you treat it. Some people treat G60 PG engines like they are Honda street bike motors and think they should rev the $h1t out of them to the moon. This is not a happy place for the g-lader...bouncing off rev limit a no / no. I shift at 6k and avoid the rev limit. More rpm on this engine is not where the performance is at, grab a gear and use the torque.

Yeah I find it to useless to rev past 6000rpm, I usually grab the next gear just before 6000, so like 5800rpm-ish. Mine seems to be pulling the best in the 4000-5200rpm range anyways. I assume peak torque in that area somewhere.

So since I never rev past 6000, I run a 68mm now, and I'm thinking about a change to a 63mm.

Is that a noticeable change?

[petethepug]

reliability with a G lader now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

The G-Ladders have service interval requirements based upon what they're asked to do. When they don't get rebuilt on that one simple requirement and get run into that G-Ladder Twilight Zone ... THAT's the Oxymoron you hear justifying and blaming the G-Ladder for not rebuilding itself

[wed3k]

ive heard running more boost can also be a bad thing if you can't support the airflow and if the intercooler can't handle the additional airflow.

right now im on a fully built motor, ported head, euroboost tubes but stock intercooler, stock rebuilt glader and a 68mm pulley.

i want it to burn the tires in 2nd and right now they only spin when the tires gets light. ive debated on going to a smaller pulley but id like to find power elsewhere considering im not even properly tuned yet, just chipped. methanol injection has crossed my mind but an intercooler is ALWAYS there.

[71camaro]

John, any more details on the 11 second Scirocco? Suspension, interior, that sort of thing?

[JBETZ]

John, any more details on the 11 second Scirocco? Suspension, interior, that sort of thing?

heh... i had a 70-1/2 camaro when I was in my teens : )
the scirocco had no interior and ran h&r coil overs... it also had a spool.

[Mr Roo]

I know there are benefits and disadvantages to both turbo and superchargers. This is just my opinion, but turbos have gotten so much better in the last couple of years and I think the knowledge around them is so much better as well. The guys that really have issues with turbos and lag have either gone with a cheap ebay or junk yard set ups that dont really fit their application. Basically the guys that have issues go out and pull a turbo from a diesel train and wondering why it doesnt work well or doesnt build any boost until 5k. I think the other achilles heel for older turbos was engine managment, which is leaps and bounds better. The real big selling point of a supercharger was ease of installation/packaging and ability to be in boost very quickly or off idle. Most of the newer turbo cars or guys that did their turbo right, you never feel or notice lag anymore and they dont seem to run out of steam on the top end. Again, I just really think this falls into which school of thought you like. Not that this is 8v related, but I watch a little bit of drag racing. More and more you see the former supercharged guys trying turbos and not going back.

[JBETZ]

I know there are benefits and disadvantages to both turbo and superchargers. This is just my opinion, but turbos have gotten so much better in the last couple of years and I think the knowledge around them is so much better as well. The guys that really have issues with turbos and lag have either gone with a cheap ebay or junk yard set ups that dont really fit their application. Basically the guys that have issues go out and pull a turbo from a diesel train and wondering why it doesnt work well or doesnt build any boost until 5k. I think the other achilles heel for older turbos was engine managment, which is leaps and bounds better. The real big selling point of a supercharger was ease of installation/packaging and ability to be in boost very quickly or off idle. Most of the newer turbo cars or guys that did their turbo right, you never feel or notice lag anymore and they dont seem to run out of steam on the top end. Again, I just really think this falls into which school of thought you like. Not that this is 8v related, but I watch a little bit of drag racing. More and more you see the former supercharged guys trying turbos and not going back.

Really.... I haven't seen much change in them. EFI and stand alone have been around forever now. I've ran ceramic ball bearing turbos since they came out and the new big deal billet wheel technology. The billet wheel deal is more of an oh boy its new technology marketing. They are a bit better. They still lag and.....pause between shifts.... So not really sure what you are referring to hear. I've got one car with a Garrett ceramic bearing GT30 billet wheel, also ran the GT28 and Precisions versions. Turbos still lag and need to build boost. Please show me this new no lag turbo technology.

You are seeing more turbos in drag racing because Lysholm type twin screws are not allowed in NHRA sanctioned events. They were banned due to what I understand was considered unfair advantage. Go do some research on this and check it out. I'd pull some good info up for you...but we are way slammed this time of year. So my time on here is starting to get limited. Top fuel still fasted cars in the world run superchargers. If they allowed the twin screw in NHRA sanctioned events, you would see these cars as the quickest on the planet.

[petethepug]

Guaranteed no Lag Turbo right here buddy

Computer Guided, Laser Cut 10 Blade Turbine
Spooling @ 20,000 RPMs+
Maximum Boost in less than 1/10 of a second
2” – 3.5” Rubber Couplers
High-Flow Air Filter
Step-by-step Installation Guide
Batteries not included
Heavy Duty Securing Clamps

What did I here em say about chrome and home?

[JBETZ]

Reason # 100,000,001


http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/p...PERCHARGER_KIT

[JBETZ]

as above i guess i was mistaken, i'm not a heating and air conditioning person haha just in context it seemed as if they were discussing the screw type chargers but after reading he referred to as scroll... my bad... though i would rather a G60 over a centrifugal haha

though makes me wonder how did the G60 "lysholm" get that nickname? being the charger is clearly an Opcon by the case as opposed to Lysholm chargers having heat sink fins like Eaton has used for years. oh and if we're speaking affiliation Opcon is actually the parent company to Lysholm. Also you, BBM, publicly offer up the info that the charger is an Opcon Autorotor 2087. i have always been baffled by that... really miss mine though

This is a long and complicated, confusing topic.
The history of Elliott-Lysholm. The screw type charger was invented by another man earlier in history. The technology was not there to mfg. it. Elliott was the first to mfg. a twin screw unit. The article I have in my hands is dated June, 1943 Initially the Lysholm twin screw cooled and exchanged the air in a jet fighter cabin. This technology is also used for air compressor units, we have one that supplies our machine shop. Yes Lysholm sounds cool, SRM owns the rights to this name and we will no longer use it. cheers

[DubCorrado]

Damn that new supercharger unit looks so damn sexy

Is it possible for you to post a side by side comparison of the technical specifications of this new unit with the "old" Autorotor SR 2087? Max air flow, achievable engine output, compression, etc, etc.

[JBETZ]

weekend......

[Estimatd]

These past 4 pages were a great read, thanks! actually convinced me not to go turbo if I keep the C.

[scrapper]

Here's some cool tec stuff that's being used with a turbo set ups for anti lag. It's been around for some time and getting more refined over time. Seems to be working well for Subaru guys. I also talked to some Supra/RX7 guys this weekend using there own design with success.


If you wait until the first S12 that appears in the video below, you can hear the engine idle change. They leave the start line at 1800 rpm and 3.5 BAR absoloute boost pressure which is 51.45 PSI of boost. The ford/skoda and Grp N cars leave at 5-6000rpm.

[Estimatd]

That's some cool shiz, any explanation of the technology?

[scrapper]

Heres some info http://www.racedandrallied.com/techn...nti-lag-system

The "rocket" is a device is fitted to the header just in front of the turbo and works as a sophisticated anti-lag system. Air and fuel are fed into a combustion chamber and ignited by a spark on over-run, it can be used in three stages (depending on how long you want the engine to last) and is the cause of the loud banging noise that can be heard as these cars pass by and the flames coming out of the tail pipe. This system is used in conjunction with the boost pack which stores excess pressure in it's own reservoir to be fed back into the engine inlet side of the inter cooler when the throttle is depressed after shut off. All this is coupled to the "flat change" gear shift and launch control system which is of course controlled the the ECU.

I need something like this for my Corrado SLC that has a GT40r.

[Estimatd]

Thanks for the info and read

The thing that would worry me is the 'how long do you want your engine to last' part...

[REPOMAN]

Anyone know what the fastest g60 qtr mile time with a BBM super charger is? Full weight or gutted?

Gutted is 11.60
Full body weight is 13.1
1990 G60 Corrado Front and rear seats. drove it to and from the track
on a Lysholm w/100k on it and over spun most of it's life.

[nated392]

no offense but screw the turbo in a g60 I would give almost ANYTHING to have that new lysholm set up in my car! hell id do almost anything just to get a g60 back in it (damn internals blowing) :'( so hard being a corrado enthusiast as a busser at a restaurant while going to school as well.....

[petethepug]

Off topic ... No worry. Pay (for school) now, play (with your money) later. New study says students earning associates degrees make more. Kudo's to you and thank you to all who serve in our armed forces to use that G.I. bill.

[Sayloth@yahoo.com]

This was a great read. Lots of info just dropped in from no where. In my opinion. After owning a few turbo boosted cars and then buying a g60. I don't really see how you all even argued with this guy. A turbo is a very crude way of forcing air....hot air at that and most know that every 10° drop in intake temp equals about 1 up. Along with that no turbo has been made to "fix" lag. They will always have lag. Why do you think large trucks use a turbo and not a SC. It would be instant power and **** would then snap. Its really not that hard to think about. Yes a turbo will spool much faster and in the end force a higher psi. But its not instant power and a SC is close. Ill be one to say I think its rude andtacky to take a SC platform car and slap in a bunch of bent pipes. Blow off valve and a turbo. Its a corrado guys. Not a Integra.

[macdadmorgan]

Every new Lysholm we have sold has come with a full one year warranty. We started this kit back in 1998 so many are getting very old with high mileage. Since 1998 we have replaced or repaired very few 1 in about 100 or only about 1%

If you have a BBM supercharger that is 4+ years old with high miles or over driven and raced. It is a really good idea to have it rebuilt by us and start a new fresh life with all new bearings and seals.

If you have a turbo or a supercharger...if you take good care with proper installation / maintenance they take good care of you. Many have gone over 100,000 miles and 100's are still out there boosting cars all around the world.

It is crazy hard for me to believe that we have had this kit out now for nearly 14 years

Do you still support these kits? I mean do you rebuild the lysholm that you sold 14 years ago?
Thanks
Morgan

[JBETZ]

Do you still support these kits? I mean do you rebuild the lysholm that you sold 14 years ago?
Thanks
Morgan

yes we do

[wed3k]

This was a great read. Lots of info just dropped in from no where. In my opinion. After owning a few turbo boosted cars and then buying a g60. I don't really see how you all even argued with this guy. A turbo is a very crude way of forcing air....hot air at that and most know that every 10° drop in intake temp equals about 1 up. Along with that no turbo has been made to "fix" lag. They will always have lag. Why do you think large trucks use a turbo and not a SC. It would be instant power and **** would then snap. Its really not that hard to think about. Yes a turbo will spool much faster and in the end force a higher psi. But its not instant power and a SC is close. Ill be one to say I think its rude andtacky to take a SC platform car and slap in a bunch of bent pipes. Blow off valve and a turbo. Its a corrado guys. Not a Integra.

i don't know if it is my setup but i have lag on my build. i was pretty conservative on the port work too. at 3500, it RIPS...like it rips so hard itll break the tires loose in 2nd gear. 68mm stock unported charger too lol.

however the next motor will be 1.8t

[scrapper]

I think JBETz title says it all - Why NOT to install a turbo on the G60 8v engine that was engineered for a supercharger!

The car was engineered for a supercharger. If you build the motor for a turbo it will be a different story in the straight.
I have a G60 that rips well 16-18psi but with my turbo vr Corrado in turbo lag condition is way faster even when I had a small turbo and stock trans. G60 is a fun street car.

You cant just throw a turbo on a car and expect it to perform properly as some has tried.

[mateok]

i don't know if it is my setup but i have lag on my build. i was pretty conservative on the port work too. at 3500, it RIPS...like it rips so hard itll break the tires loose in 2nd gear. 68mm stock unported charger too lol.

however the next motor will be 1.8t

Unless you have an SNS chip, that probably Digi-lag you're experiencing.

[JBETZ]

Unless you have an SNS chip, that probably Digi-lag you're experiencing.

for the record, digi-lag does not come from the chip tune. great marketing tho! lag comes from issues from something not quite right in the digi 1 system.
see this thread as these many things cause digi lag.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ommon-G60-Info
to my knowledge we hold the 1/4 mile G60 world record with our software. we did not do it with lag. Also way up there with the real SAE hp dyno numbers. Gota love it when you see guys claiming 300 whp on g-lader
peace

[evosilica]

for the record, digi-lag does not come from the chip tune. great marketing tho! lag comes from issues from something not quite right in the digi 1 system.

It comes from the Digi1 program-code, which is contained in the chip. So, yes, it can be corrected with a proper chip.

[mateok]

I won't even begin to portray that I know as much about chip tuning as BBM or SNS. With that being said, I drove my G60 for the entire 90's decade with what I thought was supercharger "lag".

Mkrad explained to me what caused it and said he could eliminate it. After I installed his chip, that ridiculous hesitation ended. It was explained to me as a built in slight hesitation before it goes into closed loop. What ghost in the machine is responsible, I don't know.

[JBETZ]

if we are talking about the stock chips, yes they are very prone to the lag and it gets worse if you start doing mods. yes i will agree a good program will help to keep the system from the dreaded lag. an improper tune for what combination you are running will most certainly magnify this. however most every Corrado G60 that I have worked on in my shop had the dreaded lag from issues in the system making the ecu go into, lag, rich or lean mode. so yes in away my comment was right and also wrong. curing a car with other issues that are making it lag with a chip, don't think so!

[wed3k]

if we are talking about the stock chips, yes they are very prone to the lag and it gets worse if you start doing mods. yes i will agree a good program will help to keep the system from the dreaded lag. an improper tune for what combination you are running will most certainly magnify this. however most every Corrado G60 that I have worked on in my shop had the dreaded lag from issues in the system making the ecu go into, lag, rich or lean mode. so yes in away my comment was right and also wrong. curing a car with other issues that are making it lag with a chip, don't think so!

bbm stage 4, been tempted on calling BBM and see if they can alter the chip for my 9:1 compression pistons because the stock tune is supposed to accommodate the stock compression. its already running lean at cruise (confirmed with wideband)

[JBETZ]

bbm stage 4, been tempted on calling BBM and see if they can alter the chip for my 9:1 compression pistons because the stock tune is supposed to accommodate the stock compression. its already running lean at cruise (confirmed with wideband)

you can run a standard stage 4 tune at 9:1, if you need to just back your timing off a bit at the distributor and be sure to time it by the G60 procedure.

[jeffs vw]

Yes, more hp does not make for a quicker car... When we were running our drag Scirocco it would beat turbo cars that had much more hp, even cars that had an additional 100 hp. This red Honda was claiming to make over 350hp. We were making about 240 wheel hp. This chart shows the torque difference and the turbo still has more wheel hp. Also you have to account for turbo lag and believe me turbo lag is always a big deal when going up against a supercharged car.

This Video is what i like to see!!!! Turbo Honda getting left by a G60! Enough said!!!!!!:wave

John i will post a video soon as i finish in the next 2 weeks on my rabbit g60 build.