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    Thread: : ) Why NOT to install a turbo on the G60 8v engine that was engineered for a supercharger!

    1. Member DubCorrado's Avatar
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      04-22-2012 03:11 PM #51
      Man Im glad that this post was started. I was actually thinking about turbocharging my PG and ditching the Lysholm. But reading this just made me that much more in love with the Lysholm.


    2. Member petethepug's Avatar
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      04-23-2012 12:42 AM #52
      I've got a BBM lysholm silencer kit waiting to go on after my next G Ladder rebuild is out. Between now and then I'll find a lysholm off the classifieds to prep. Repoman's life size Hot Wheels has me motivated to dial up the boost now that I've got the platform to support it.
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    3. Member fox-16v's Avatar
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      04-23-2012 10:15 AM #53
      If bbm reintroduced their silencer kit, I would go that route instead of turbo. Ill just save my penny's and throw a rotrex setup on a 20v one of these days.
      In my Corrado, I live my life a quarter mile at a time.. for those 18 seconds or less, I'm free

      Quote Originally Posted by 206929rr View Post
      nice find. sell me your foha. im not asking. "this isnt the foha you were looking for" (waves hand jedi like)...

    4. Member petethepug's Avatar
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      04-23-2012 12:19 PM #54
      TEC used one on their Corrado but it was vague on it's performance. I was looking at Rotrex for a while. There were never any dyno sheets available from a Corrado G60 install so I knew not to get in on it. The last article I saw on the inet showed the size that goes in a G60 could only get about 7-8lb boost.

      Edit .. Just got off the phone w/ Jackson Racing who is the Dist in my area. Here's the bottom line with Rotrex on the G60:

      Cost factor w/ exchange rate of the 1 US Dollar = 5.62867 Danish Krone
      Dedicated support solely for the Corrado G60. Per the folks at Rotrex:

      If you have a problem with your Rotrex supercharger then contact the dealer for advice. Always contact the dealer where you bought the supercharger. Do not contact Rotrex directly as only the dealer will be able to help.
      We do not recommend attempting to repair the Rotrex supercharger. We are aware of some companies offering repairs, however none of these are Rotrex approved. At Rotrex we never repair superchargers or reuse components.
      Please also note that Rotrex does not offer any warranty on superchargers that have been repaired or disassembled


      In spite of them being around for a while they're still a small Danish Co and have yet to make it into a production vehicle. Real world road time and the R&D that would come from running a Rotrex in a daily driver would get them to the next level.
      Last edited by petethepug; 04-23-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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    5. 04-23-2012 02:31 PM #55
      Some people who go turbo most likely are not just going to be satisfied with a 14 sec qtr mile pass at full weight. Thats just teasing them to build a turbo engine correctly. Not just throwing on a kit and calling it a day. They are getting a turbo cuz they can surpass a super charger performance with a further upgrades and or possible future build. You hear it all the time.

      If you want a fast street car that only does about High 14. sec qtr mile pass at full weight BBM might be for you. If you gut yr Corrado with further upgrades you might be in the 12's . Also consider you will be stuck in that range or BBM would of built a faster car is my guess.

      If you want something that will keep up with performance of today's standards for an average stock VW's R models BBM can get you there.

      When it comes to drag racing your better off with a turbo in the long run just in case you want to compete with a bit faster cars at the track. You just gotta build the motor.

      I think that's why so many just ditch the motor as a whole and put in a 16 valve or VR6 and start there.

      Anyone know what the fastest g60 qtr mile time with a BBM super charger is? Full weight or gutted?
      Last edited by scrapper; 04-23-2012 at 02:39 PM.

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      04-23-2012 03:46 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by fox-16v View Post
      If bbm reintroduced their silencer kit, I would go that route instead of turbo. Ill just save my penny's and throw a rotrex setup on a 20v one of these days.
      We can set you up with a BBM twin screw and silencer option
      Rotrex no so great on the G60 8v, had a few in my shop.
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      04-23-2012 03:48 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      One final comment and then I'll shut up . It may well be that a supercharged PG will be the faster car in the 1/4 mile vs a turboed PG, but some people (me included) don't give a hoot about 1/4 mile times.
      Don't get me wrong, I have a good deal of respect for those folks who can run a fast 1/4 but it's not me. I prefer road racing. And in a street car (especially a rado) I'd rather have top speed and good part throttle fuel economy. It's fun to outrun a new Porsche on the interstate and then make the owner sick to his stomach when you tell him that it's a 4 banger that gets 35+mpg at 85 mph . And for those goals a turbo will always win especially combined with a decent standalone.
      Also quicker times on the road course...even more of an A$$ kicking than on the 1/4 mile track
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      04-23-2012 07:43 PM #58
      My only arguement, and why I didn't go with the charger, is for the cost(over$3000) for the charger and then money to install, chip, whatever, depends on what you can do yourself. I am putting in a fully built 16Vt motor in for the same in parts costs comparibly. I understand that I am putting in custom piping which if you can't do yourself can be expensive, but still the over all end result will be much more fun to drive. Alos, with standalone, only thing I need to do down the road is add more fuel and bigger turbo and faster car.

      In relationship to lag, a good hybrid turbo will cost far less than the charger as well.

      Like the one guy said earlier in the thread, its a lot to say "how much power for how much money"

      I'm not a rocket scientist so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

      Also not bashing BBM or their charger/products, as I bought their fuel rail to use with my setup

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      04-23-2012 07:50 PM #59
      Good points....really also pending on your mechanical skill level and how much you value your time.
      That is even if you have extra time, majority of our customers like to bolt on and go.
      I have a 500hp turbo 16v... GT30R, fun car still lags, so did my 16v GT28R.
      Now I am switching two of my cars back to Supercharger!
      Thanks for all the feed back and input, thought this might be a fun thread
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      04-23-2012 11:27 PM #60
      Since we are now comparing turbo charged 16v's and 20v's, to the G60 SC 8v, thought I'd add this.
      When we did the very first Mk3 2.0L BBM Supercharger kit. My customer went right to the Stage IV power package. At that time I had a tricked out Mk4 GTI 1.8T. It made about 250+ whp and nearly 300 wheel torque. We did countless side by side drag races. Every time the cars were exactly neck and neck. My 1.8T GTI even had a close ratio six spd. box in it. Once again it didn't matter, the broad torque band made it just as quick. Both cars in full street trim and woofers in the trunk.
      Bottom line is that a properly supercharged 8v can be just as quick as a tricked out 16v or 20v turbo car. Now lets not start comparing water melons too apples here. Of course you have world record high hp, high $$$$$$ custom built turbo and supercharged cars out there. That's not what we are talking about here.
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      04-23-2012 11:34 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by clove911 View Post

      In relationship to lag, a good hybrid turbo will cost far less than the charger as well.
      I keep seeing this cost comparison.... It's absolutely ridiculous my friend. I sell turbo gear to 16v guys every single day. I sell complete packages, just parts, complete engines ect. ect. ect.... they are NOT less money than our $3k charger kit.
      By the time you add it all up they almost always go near the $4-5k mark and you would need to spend this much to even compete against a twin screw kit 8v on the good old G60.
      So back to dollars and cents, time and skill level of the customer....it is beat hands down!
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      04-23-2012 11:40 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by scrapper View Post

      Anyone know what the fastest g60 qtr mile time with a BBM super charger is? Full weight or gutted?
      Yes, pretty sure we have it....the video is in this thread.
      The fastest time I have ever seen on a stock PG 8v G60 engine with stock management is our fastest time of 11.7 sec 1/4 mile.

      I've never seen a quicker time on this engine set up. If someone can show me other wise....my eyes are wide open

      I also know of Double J Motorwerks, he runs low 12's all day long in a drag prepped BBM SC 8v bunny.
      Not sure if he has gone quicker since I last spoke with him

      And we have ran high 12's with full street trim cars running slicks.
      Repoman, I think used to come close to 11's with our 16v SC Ltd. conversion... in full street trim.
      Last edited by JBETZ; 04-23-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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      04-24-2012 12:11 AM #63
      Hi again mr betz!could you give some thoughts about the tvs charger? Seems like a good compromise (cost perspective) to the buyer,it looks like it could do good and if the price is right there should be some customers,at least i would be!!may be is not as efficient as a lysholm but a lower pricing on a kit like that and missing a few ponies i would go for it.Actually i might do like carat g60 and stuff a 50shot for those times when i feel lucky(punk),hope you and your staff the best and keep bringing good stuff the market later guys! Roderick

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      04-24-2012 12:24 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by rodperformance View Post
      Hi again mr betz!could you give some thoughts about the tvs charger? Seems like a good compromise (cost perspective) to the buyer,it looks like it could do good and if the price is right there should be some customers,at least i would be!!may be is not as efficient as a lysholm but a lower pricing on a kit like that and missing a few ponies i would go for it.Actually i might do like carat g60 and stuff a 50shot for those times when i feel lucky(punk),hope you and your staff the best and keep bringing good stuff the market later guys! Roderick
      Hi rodperformance...we have some really great customers in Puerto Rico. So shout out to PR
      The TVS is a great charger design.... the smallest unit is the 1320 and it would be a tight shoe horn of a challenge to fit it in the G60. Feel free to email me at betz@bahnbrenner.com and we can discuss options
      Last edited by JBETZ; 04-24-2012 at 02:24 AM.
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    15. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 05:55 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by JBETZ View Post
      Also quicker times on the road course...even more of an A$$ kicking than on the 1/4 mile track
      And not legal on a VW in SCCA club racing
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    16. Member fox-16v's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 08:46 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by JBETZ View Post
      We can set you up with a BBM twin screw and silencer option
      Rotrex no so great on the G60 8v, had a few in my shop.
      Have you dabbled in silenced 20v lysholms?
      In my Corrado, I live my life a quarter mile at a time.. for those 18 seconds or less, I'm free

      Quote Originally Posted by 206929rr View Post
      nice find. sell me your foha. im not asking. "this isnt the foha you were looking for" (waves hand jedi like)...

    17. Member kainoasun's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 10:15 AM #67
      If we're still talking 1.8 G60's on digi,... I had so many headaches maintaining G60 turbo conversions. But i did not have as many issues maintaining highly boosted supercharged systems running digi. The turbo conversions just had so many more parts, not to mention the extra labor and tuning issues for the turbo conversion. "

      From my experience there was not that much difference in performance when using the 1.8 8v head in turbo or supercharged form.

      It seems the flow of the 8v counter flow head, even when P and P'd with bigger valves has a bottleneck that can only move so much air regardless of how much is boost shoved down its throat.

      If I was to go turbo 1.8, I'd bite the bullet and go factory 1.8T 20 valve with factory or aftermarket management... No question.

      Then again A lysholm 1.8 20 valve is pretty dam awesome making some ridiculous power compared to 1.8T engine.....

      Anyone know which setup dominates???






      P"

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      04-24-2012 04:05 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by fox-16v View Post
      Have you dabbled in silenced 20v lysholms?
      the red devil race car video above is a BBM twin screw 20v silenced set up, large custom head unit.
      i think silenced is not exactly the correct word for this.
      putting the t-body in front of the compressor makes it about 50+% quieter.
      you can still hear the blower, but it sounds like music to me
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    19. 04-24-2012 04:43 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by JBETZ View Post
      you can still hear the blower, but it sounds like music to me
      Nice I'm the same way My Corrado has a 4"down pipe wide open and never had the radio on in like 7yrs Hmm Love it! My 928 that I had for many more has never had the radio on I just roll down the windows n the V8 was all music.

      The BBM car must of been a blast to hear, feel and pedal thru going into the turns and coming out.

    20. Member DubCorrado's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 11:12 PM #70
      I guess this is the best place to ask this but, how many liters of air does a BBM lysholm push out per revolution?

      Thanks,
      Mark

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      04-24-2012 11:28 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by DubCorrado View Post
      I guess this is the best place to ask this but, how many liters of air does a BBM lysholm push out per revolution?

      Thanks,
      Mark
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      04-25-2012 09:05 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      . Scroll compressors are quite efficient, just ask the A/C industry, but definately not so good for a supercharger.
      going to have to disagree...



      as well the fastest 1/4 mile cars in the world are scroll supercharged...

      i'm sure i am just biased but there's nothing like a scroll charger, centrifugal chargers are just outright not fun. i sold my G60 Lysholm back when i was 20 biggest regret of my life thus far.

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      04-25-2012 12:59 PM #73
      I think we are just mixing up the types of compressors here.
      The video above is the Kenne Bell twin screw lysholm.

      Pretty sure the above is referring to the scroll AC compressor being similar to the g-lader.

      Then you have centrifugal...or basically turbo type blower ran by a belt.

      And then of course you have the Eaton egg beater roots design....
      Then the newer TVS roots type.

      The twin screw lysholm types are the best positive displacement compressors...
      TVS is next

      Centrifugal such as Vortech, Rotrex....Pro Charger not so great for smaller engines in my opinion. I also wouldn't choose one for larger engines.

      Roots Heaton egg beater.... nick name tells the story
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      04-25-2012 02:00 PM #74
      as above i guess i was mistaken, i'm not a heating and air conditioning person haha just in context it seemed as if they were discussing the screw type chargers but after reading he referred to as scroll... my bad... though i would rather a G60 over a centrifugal haha

      though makes me wonder how did the G60 "lysholm" get that nickname? being the charger is clearly an Opcon by the case as opposed to Lysholm chargers having heat sink fins like Eaton has used for years. oh and if we're speaking affiliation Opcon is actually the parent company to Lysholm. Also you, BBM, publicly offer up the info that the charger is an Opcon Autorotor 2087. i have always been baffled by that... really miss mine though

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      04-25-2012 07:05 PM #75
      Lysholm is more fun to say
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