AK-47 or AR-15 platform guns..lwhich would you choose

[Polski Ogier]

Simple poll.

Debate between AK and AR style guns is longstanding. AK has longer history, battle proven, and superior stopping power. AR new-comer, better accuracy, more moving parts.

If choosing 1, which style, maker, and why?

For what its worth, own a converted Saiga AK, but looking to trade for S&W MP-15 (non-sport).

AK:


AR:

[FergieRay]

[Elbows]

Assuming you start with a quality model of either...get one thing out of the way first.

1) The AK is more accurate than most people like to admit.
2) The AR is more reliable than most people like to admit.

That being said, the AK is more reliable, and the AR is more accurate...but within a very negligible realm of difference.

Everyone here knows I'm a huge AK fan. My only beef is that it requires a reasonable amount of money to get a properly working AK, and making it more combat effective is expensive. You can more easily find a out-of-the-box AR to suit your needs.

The Russians got the AK right...but then as the Cold War came to a crashing halt, it lagged behind the power curver of a modern fighting rifle. This has been rectified by a number of US companies now. However to get the rifle into true and trim fighting spec can cost a bit of money - and may require lengthy waits at the gunsmith.

The AR started off as a good design...was f_cked to hell...and we've been slowly band-aiding it back into a reasonable fighting gun. The current design is as good as we're going to get. Support for the AR has never been better. Quality components tend to cost a LOT though.

"Ergonomics" is 100% user preference, and anyone who runs either rifle for an extended time with develop a favorite.

Given no information on what was ahead --- if someone opened up a crate, with a Colt 6920, or an Arsenal/Saiga AK and told me to pick one. I'd pick the AK.

[ATLGLI83]

Both?
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/v...?idCategory=15

[Señor Peligro]

AK by miles

[NoDubJustYet]

In what situation do I have to make a decision? Punching paper or post-apocalypse America? If it's just punching paper who the hell cares? Whichever gun makes you happy is fine.

In a real world situation involving the survival of my family I will choose a piston-driven AR of some nature. The simple reason is that ammo will be much more plentiful and easier to find overall.

Good luck trying to find your commie-bloc 7.62 or 5.45 ammo a few months into a real problem... Meanwhile 5.56 is at every PD, ANG depot, sporting goods store, and WalMart across the country.

[gtguard]

"Stopping power", those two words make me cringe.

[gtguard]

Assuming you start with a quality model of either...get one thing out of the way first.

1) The AK is more accurate than most people like to admit.
2) The AR is more reliable than most people like to admit.

That being said, the AK is more reliable, and the AR is more accurate...but within a very negligible realm of difference.

Everyone here knows I'm a huge AK fan. My only beef is that it requires a reasonable amount of money to get a properly working AK, and making it more combat effective is expensive. You can more easily find a out-of-the-box AR to suit your needs.

The Russians got the AK right...but then as the Cold War came to a crashing halt, it lagged behind the power curver of a modern fighting rifle. This has been rectified by a number of US companies now. However to get the rifle into true and trim fighting spec can cost a bit of money - and may require lengthy waits at the gunsmith.

The AR started off as a good design...was f_cked to hell...and we've been slowly band-aiding it back into a reasonable fighting gun. The current design is as good as we're going to get. Support for the AR has never been better. Quality components tend to cost a LOT though.

"Ergonomics" is 100% user preference, and anyone who runs either rifle for an extended time with develop a favorite.

Given no information on what was ahead --- if someone opened up a crate, with a Colt 6920, or an Arsenal/Saiga AK and told me to pick one. I'd pick the AK.

Can't come up with a more awesome explanation. Reposting so people read it again.

[Obin Robinson]

AKs will still be running after the last AR-15 is put away into a museum collection. Given the choice between the two I'd take the AK.

obin

[gtguard]

Mossin Nagants will still be running after the last AK is put away into a museum collection.

Fixed.

[dj age one]

^^^ that.



they'll probably find working 91/30's buried in russian fields 100 years from now, still loaded and operational.

If I were you, I'd keep the AK and save up for a AR. why not own both, then shoot them and decided which you like more.

for me, off hand shooting I find is WAY easier with a AR, and with a scope on it shooting for accuracy the AK can't really compare, especially at longer distances because the 7.62x39 drops off so fast, especially past 200 yards.. so I enjoy shooting my AR's more.

pushed to extreme limits average enthusiast will never see, the AK is more reliable.

[Obin Robinson]

Though I have to say that the AR is by far more accurate at long ranges (300m and further) there are ergonomic issues which have never been fixed with the gun.

1) The magwell location makes extended offhand shooting tiring.
2) The magazine release can accidently be hit in the heat of battle.
3) The gun is difficult to shoot while wearing a gas mask. An awkward shooting stance has to be adapted.
4) The non-adjustable A1 and A2 stock is too long for body armor. Easy to fix if it's your personal gun but difficult to deal with it if is an issued duty weapon.
5) The sights are great for precision shooting but useless in low light conditions. The rear sight is easily clogged by mud.
6) The stock does not fold which makes maneuvering out of a vehicle much more difficult than with an AK.

All in all they are both great guns.

obin

[Time for a GTI]

All other things being equal I see it as a trade off of recoil and stopping power.

S&W MP-15 (non-sport).

I set one of these up over the winter and have been to the range with it a few times now. I love how it came out. Fun to shoot, very accurate.

[GrkPranksta69]

AK by far. Look at it,

[GrkPranksta69]

In what situation do I have to make a decision? Punching paper or post-apocalypse America? If it's just punching paper who the hell cares? Whichever gun makes you happy is fine.

In a real world situation involving the survival of my family I will choose a piston-driven AR of some nature. The simple reason is that ammo will be much more plentiful and easier to find overall.

Good luck trying to find your commie-bloc 7.62 or 5.45 ammo a few months into a real problem... Meanwhile 5.56 is at every PD, ANG depot, sporting goods store, and WalMart across the country.

If that's the case why not just get the AK in 223? Also Remington, Hornady, Federal make ammo for the 7.62x39. I know if I go to my local Walmart and or Basspro Shops I can find quite a bit of 7.62x39 all the time

[HookedOn16v]

If that's the case why not just get the AK in 223? Also Remington, Hornady, Federal make ammo for the 7.62x39. I know if I go to my local Walmart and or Basspro Shops I can find quite a bit of 7.62x39 all the time

From everything I've read and seen at the range...

Don't buy an AK in .223

Don't buy an AR in 7.62

Neither plays nice with the other.


Edit:

I have the AR. Mostly because of the aforementioned performance past 300m, varmint hunting doesn't care about ergonomics or moving parts. Prairie dogs won't swarm if you have a failure, at least, not that I know of...........lol.

[greyhare]

Piston AR.

Personal preference on the controls ergonomics.

Every PD an NG armory in the US will have ammunition and magazines. In a SHTF firefight empty mags hit the ground, get stepped on, and left behind.

[NoDubJustYet]

If that's the case why not just get the AK in 223? Also Remington, Hornady, Federal make ammo for the 7.62x39. I know if I go to my local Walmart and or Basspro Shops I can find quite a bit of 7.62x39 all the time

It will still never approach the sheer amount of 5.56 that is out there.

[TurboWraith]

I generally prefer the AR platform but also have a huge soft spot for the AK. Most of my shooting is done in my yard/land and I appreciate the lighter AR for varminting, etc. No question that the AK can be abused more without malfunction, and the 7.62 round carries more energy at closer ranges than 5.56.

If this is the end of the world seario, I'll bring along my BCM AR15, DI design the way Stoner intended. I'm more comfortable with the AR platform in general and would be more effective with that weapon over the AK at this time.

[Obin Robinson]

From everything I've read and seen at the range...

Don't buy an AK in .223

There are several notable exceptions to this rule:

Galil/R4:


Radom Beryl:


Valmet M76:


INSAS:


All of those are basically the AK adapted for 5.56x54mm. They all sport some small differences but are Kalashnikovs at heart.

obin

[GrkPranksta69]

There are several notable exceptions to this rule:


All of those are basically the AK adapted for 5.56x54mm. They all sport some small differences but are Kalashnikovs at heart.

obin

Don't ya mean 5.56x45mm?

[Obin Robinson]

Don't ya mean 5.56x45mm?

oops typo!

obin

[HookedOn16v]

I can accept that

I have seen more bad ones than good however. Especially in the hands of local shooters at my range.

[Obin Robinson]

I can accept that

I have seen more bad ones than good however. Especially in the hands of local shooters at my range.

Agreed. The AKs worth owning in 5.56x45mm are usually bought a thousand at a time by government agencies.

obin

[fowtj]

If the question is standard AR in .223 vs. Russian AK in 5.45, I prefer the AK.

However, if you plan to modify with optics and "tacticool" accessories (I use the term non-derogatorily), then the AR is the better platform.

I rank it like this: properly modified AR > quality AK > basic AR > basic AK

[CO Boy]

I have both and like both. I own an AR that is not approved by AR15.com (it's not a Colt) and has been flawless. I also have a tacticool (no disrespect) SGL-21.

There is an abundance of parts and accessories for the AR, it truly is a mans lego set. It is more ergonomic than the AK, but with a Krebs safety and some training the AK can be manipulated almost as well as an AR. Practice makes perfect. The only thing an AR does that an AK doesn't is last round bolt hold open. This is one reason I want a VZ.58.

In the last few years many new parts have come available for the AK. Ultimak gas tubes that have picatinny rail, now Mid West Industries has replacement hand guards that allow you to mount red dots, RS Regulate has side mounts specific to certain scopes/sights.

The AK is simple. You can learn to disassemble it in a matter a minutes, where as in an AR it's a little more complicated. As was stated before the AK is more accurate than people want to give it credit for and the AR is more reliable than whats posted on the interwebz.

As for which I prefer, I'll take an AK in 7.62x39. I like it's iconic history, its simplicity and the round. If you are looking to shoot "groupings" then get an AR.

Since both are great rifles I would recommend getting both.

[Obin Robinson]

There is an abundance of parts and accessories for the AR, it truly is a mans lego set. It is more ergonomic than the AK, but with a Krebs safety and some training the AK can be manipulated almost as well as an AR. Practice makes perfect. The only thing an AR does that an AK doesn't is last round bolt hold open. This is one reason I want a VZ.58.

I find the best thing to do with the AK is to train with it as the gun was designed. Once you see how the Soviets employed them the gun starts to make a whole lot more sense. Don't run it like it is an AR and don't run an AR like it is an AK. Once you read how they are used and see videos of how the Russians use them you begin to see just how brilliant of a design it is.





obin

[00boraslow]

I own both, but prefer the AR15.

I always seem to burn myself when I shoot my Ak47's, so I rarely shoot them.

I also don't like that the AK47 doesn't have a bolt hold back when the mag is empty like the AR15 and you also have to recharge the weapon when you change the magazine.

[SuperStar]

speaking of 5.56x45 AK, how about the Arsenal 106 cr, is this a reliable one?

[Obin Robinson]

speaking of 5.56x45 AK, how about the Arsenal 106 cr, is this a reliable one?

I've shot one of those before. It was a damn good gun to shoot and the owner didn't report any problems at the time.

obin

[Elbows]

Read my blog regarding 5.56 AKs. It'll explain a bit. But yes, an Arsenal 5.56 AK with proper Bulgarian 5.56 magazines will work just fine. Also you can shoot any kind of steel cased 5.56 with no problem, meaning you're around $190-200 per thousand.

"Ergonomics" is a huge bugaboo for me. This is where my AK experience/bias will probably come in.

I'd suggest finding a copy of Sonny Puzikas' beyond the firearm II video. It's expensive and hard to find, but worth it for anyone who wants to run an AK properly and effectively.



This is purposely edited to silence some of his commentary. The full DVD explains a LOT about genuine carry and fighting with the AK, not static-range speed drills.

The AR is so much easier to reload!
How so? The AK magazine release is ambidextrous...less likely to be struck inadvertently, and can be manipulated on a sharp corner, or using another magazine. Charging the weapon can be done in about 4-5 different ways, and is ambidextrous as well. The charging handle is in a better location, more robust, and does not need to be "clicked" into place to be safe.

When an AK magazine is seated - you know it, you feel it, and it ain't coming out unless you want it to. I've seen so many AR magazine failures by comparison, it's funny. There is no need to tap your AK magazine to ensure proper seating. It's either locked in, or it isn't.

I suppose it is a balance between positive lock, and ease of use...vs. speed. I know in many instances when I'm out shooting with buddies, I reload 2-3x faster with my AK than they do with their AR's. It's a matter of training, repetition, and knowing your own gun. I like to spend time dry firing, and practicing reloading from various stances, sitting, kneeling, laying, etc.

Yes, you can reload an AR magazines in 1.5-2 seconds vs. 3-4.0 seconds in an AK. If you're doing some shooting games, then perhaps that's important. I've never seen a soldier in a gunfight reload anywhere near 4.0 seconds or under. No one does super-speed magazine changes in the field. I love me some Magpul videos, and Travis Haley blows my mind with his redi-mag speed change...but the practical application is always questionable.



3:45 in this video ^

At the same time, proper training, drilling and running can make the AK very fast too.



0:30 in this video ^

I don't think you'd be reloading this fast in any genuine shooting fight. The difference is much smaller than people like to drone on about.

Any rifle can be run very quickly and efficiently, given training, and time. Heck, the same shooter (Travis Haley) runs this non-modded SCAR-L with the charging handle on the right, and basically runs it like an AK.

I will admit that the stock AK pistol grip is pretty suck. It's 50 years old, and made for smaller guys wearing big mittens. Luckily that is a $30 swap, just like most AR users who ditch the standard M16A1 grips.

I would imagine there are guys out there who can run a G3 or an CETME/FAL/L1-A1 faster than we can run our AK's or AR's.

[Justin]

While I enjoy plinking with my AR's, I much prefer even my cheap AK. I think most of the reason being that I have never built a left handed AR and the AK never hits me in the face with spent shells.

[ultimate steve]

I have an ar, and am getting an ak. Can't go wrong with both.

I originally was going to pick up a regular saiga in 223 or a wasr10 as a cheap extra gun to bring to the range for my pops to shoot, but then I figured I might as well buy something I actually want and would enjoy owning. So I'm going with an arsenal sgl21. A bit pricier than I intended but id rather get that and either shoot my ar or my ak while pops or whoever shoots whatever I'm not.