Is 160 crank hp and 260 crank torque fun in a 2500lb car?

[85_305]

Just curious if it's anything worthile. I'm reffering to an mkIII Jetta 5spd, fyi.

[C4 A6]

Torque wins races bro.

[AZGolf]

It was going OK until I saw you mention it's FWD. Clearly it isn't going to be a fun car.

[adrew]

My 2800-lb Civic Si had 160 hp, 132 lb-ft and was plenty peppy.

[Omnilith]

Sounds like fun to me.

[Dr. Woo]

Plenty of pep in my 160 hp, 146 lb/ft 2800 lbs car. It's very lively and I have lots of fun.

[.:Ryan]

Just curious if it's anything worthile. I'm reffering to an mkIII Jetta 5spd, fyi.

Yes.... "1999.5 Jetta TDI 5spd, MODDED" This isn't much different...

[The Kilted Yaksman]

As long as you have more than 151 torques, you're good to go.

[KrautFed]

You lost me at 5spd. It will only be fun in a 6spd or 4spd, but 5spd... nope.

[71DubBugBug]

You lost me at 5spd. It will only be fun in a 6spd or 4spd, but 5spd... nope.

why?

[Subie J]

why?

5-speeds fall between too many gears and not enough gears. Doubly negative != positive. CL: math is hard, bro.

[Art Vandelay]

I've had fun with a lot less.

[mariok2006]

I've had fun with a lot less.

[85_305]

Torque wins races bro.

This is absolutely true! In fact, I could probably muster more torque than that out, but I was just lowballing the figures to save disappointment if I dont meet my goals.

My 2800-lb Civic Si had 160 hp, 132 lb-ft and was plenty peppy.

Indeed, indeed. A very similarly equipped vehicle.

Sounds like fun to me.

Plenty of pep in my 160 hp, 146 lb/ft 2800 lbs car. It's very lively and I have lots of fun.

Which car is this?

Yes.... "1999.5 Jetta TDI 5spd, MODDED" This isn't much different...

It's 500lbs difference.. which is a decent gap... about 50hp worth of weight-power ratio.

You lost me at 5spd. It will only be fun in a 6spd or 4spd, but 5spd... nope.

Ha! Good one!

5-speeds fall between too many gears and not enough gears. Doubly negative != positive. CL: math is hard, bro.

6spd has TOO many gears and requires 3rd gear to reach 60mph, whereas the 5spds do 60mph in 2nd.

I've had fun with a lot less.

This is true!


I could get a LOT more than this outta the car, but I'm keeping it relatively stockish and reliable. My mkiv will have a good bit more power, but judging by the 500lb disparity between the 2, I could have 50hp less in my mkiii jetta and in theory be just as quick as the mkiv.

[unintended acceleration]

This is absolutely true! In fact, I could probably muster more torque than that out, but I was just lowballing the figures to save disappointment if I dont meet my goals.

So by this logic, said car will be faster than any car with less than 260 torks? I bet you would completely smoke an S2000, BRZ and keep right up with the E90 M3 too because that car has only 295 torks, so you would stay right with him with your 260 torks.


Joking aside, said car will only rev to ~4.5 RPM, have about 130 wheel HP and power the wrong wheels. I don't see much fun in this relatively speaking. Sure it may be fun compared to a Prius
or Corolla but that isn't saying much.

[mellbergVWfan]

Since when does a mk3 weigh 2500 pounds?

[DrFrisker]

2690 with 2/3 tank. 160 wheel and 170 tourque. midengine. 6 cylinders. 5 speed short geared 4cyl n/a trans. enough power for me on the street. it is tough to stay out of trouble above/at those levels.

[85_305]

So by this logic, said car will be faster than any car with less than 260 torks? I bet you would completely smoke an S2000, BRZ and keep right up with the E90 M3 too because that car has only 295 torks, so you would stay right with him with your 260 torks.


Joking aside, said car will only rev to ~4.5 RPM, have about 130 wheel HP and power the wrong wheels. I don't see much fun in this relatively speaking. Sure it may be fun compared to a Prius
or Corolla but that isn't saying much.

No, I'm not saying that at all.. merely that having a tremendous amount of torque WILL offset having lower amounts of hp. Just like hondas with 200-230hp but only 180ft-lbs of torque can run 12's; having insane amounts of one will counter having not-alot of the other. Remember: HP is an imaginery number derived off of torque, which can be seen in numerous ways.

As far as how high the car rev's, that depends on how much I want to mod this car. My mkiv tdi I can spin the tach all the way out, which is about 5500rpms. I doubt I do the work required to make my mkiii spin 5500rpms, though. But I wont be drag racing the mkiii jetta; I am from, and my whole family lives, in the country. This means lots of hills and turns, which is what I really want to have fun with in my mkiii. Having tons of torque, with a very broad power-band, makes for a great road-course or hill-climber. The car already handles like a gocart stock; far better FEELING than my mkiv stock.

[85_305]

Since when does a mk3 weigh 2500 pounds?

Since '98 when it was built? And the mk2's were even closer to 2k lbs than that.

2690 with 2/3 tank. 160 wheel and 170 tourque. midengine. 6 cylinders. 5 speed short geared 4cyl n/a trans. enough power for me on the street. it is tough to stay out of trouble above/at those levels.

Sounds like a fun car

[Dr. Woo]

Which car is this?

2012 Focus SE Hatch with SE Sport Package and a 5-speed.

[teklord69]

Plenty of pep in my 160 hp, 146 lb/ft 2800 lbs car. It's very lively and I have lots of fun.

Lies..lies..

[adrew]

Lies..lies..

Even more dangerous than the BR-Z, right?

[unintended acceleration]

No, I'm not saying that at all.. merely that having a tremendous amount of torque WILL offset having lower amounts of hp. Just like hondas with 200-230hp but only 180ft-lbs of torque can run 12's; having insane amounts of one will counter having not-alot of the other. Remember: HP is an imaginery number derived off of torque, which can be seen in numerous ways.

As far as how high the car rev's, that depends on how much I want to mod this car. My mkiv tdi I can spin the tach all the way out, which is about 5500rpms. I doubt I do the work required to make my mkiii spin 5500rpms, though. But I wont be drag racing the mkiii jetta; I am from, and my whole family lives, in the country. This means lots of hills and turns, which is what I really want to have fun with in my mkiii. Having tons of torque, with a very broad power-band, makes for a great road-course or hill-climber. The car already handles like a gocart stock; far better FEELING than my mkiv stock.

It absolutely will not. A 130 HP Golf TDI will accelerate just like a 130 HP Civic for the most part (of same weight). Torque is a force, not the amount of work that can be done over time. Without the time factor (HP) we might as well be discussing the weather.

Look up trap speeds, 1/4 mile times, whatever you want between a Golf TDI and any other gasoline powered car (similar weight) that has the same HP but much less torque. They will accelerate at about the same rate.

There is an almost direct correlation between HP to weight ratio and acceleration. That is the bottom line.

If you are thinking of HP as an imaginary number, then this discussion can end here. No offense but that is just completely wrong on so many levels.

[85_305]

It absolutely will not. A 130 HP Golf TDI will accelerate just like a 130 HP Civic for the most part (of same weight). Torque is a force, not the amount of work that can be done over time. Without the time factor (HP) we might as well be discussing the weather.

Look up trap speeds, 1/4 mile times, whatever you want between a Golf TDI and any other gasoline powered car (similar weight) that has the same HP but much less torque. They will accelerate at about the same rate.

There is an almost direct correlation between HP to weight ratio and acceleration. That is the bottom line.

If you are thinking of HP as an imaginary number, then this discussion can end here. No offense but that is just completely wrong on so many levels.

Horsepower IS an imginary number, contrived for marketing. I'm also not disputing that hp to weight ratio has no effect on acceleration, because it does. But having a vehicle with a high amount of torque, in a very broad power band, with proper gearing, also goes a long way.

[Aonarch]

because racecar

[gsrroger]

Horsepower IS an imginary number, contrived for marketing. I'm also not disputing that hp to weight ratio has no effect on acceleration, because it does. But having a vehicle with a high amount of torque, in a very broad power band, with proper gearing, also goes a long way.

Power is not imaginary - it's an extremely real consequence of physics. And in some regimes, it's easier to measure power than anything else (I work in RF, we measure everything with s-parameters, which are a direct power measurement). To me, torque could be argued to be just as "imaginary" as power, because when you change gears, you change how much torque goes to the wheels - but you cannot change how much power goes to the wheels.

All that said, in the real world, a torquey engine is still nice.

[worth_fixing]

260 ft-lbs or 260 Nm?
Crank torque isn't a unit of measurement.

[DrFrisker]

260 has to be a typo. im positive he meant 160ftlbs

[SchnellFowVay]

DO NOT FORGET THE TEKLORD CONSTANT

Car < 151 ft.-lbs = dangerous going up hills

Car > 151 ft.-lbs = safe, regardless of weight of car

BMW 530iA > All Cars

With this tool, you can discern that, at the very least, your car will be able to make it up hills safely.

[SchnellFowVay]

260 has to be a typo. im positive he meant 160ftlbs

Unless it's a modified TDI . . .

[bherman13]

260 has to be a typo. im positive he meant 160ftlbs

I'm assuming he meant diesel, but then again it could be a typo.

Also, OP, this argument will not end well. Yes, torks are needed, but hp are the rate at which that torque is applied and during a race, time is all that matters. They must go hand in hand, and diesels don't rev very high so you need some higher gearing to make up for that anyways.

[Broduski]

Since when does a mk3 weigh 2500 pounds?

When you cut it in half.

[DrFrisker]

Unless it's a modified TDI . . .

why would he ask if his own car is fun? wouldn't he know that or not?


mkiii owner doesnt know his own car must be worth 30k either then huh

[bherman13]

When you cut it in half.

When you buy it..... Mine fully loaded is about 2900 and is stock.

[cougar]

No, I'm not saying that at all.. merely that having a tremendous amount of torque WILL offset having lower amounts of hp. Just like hondas with 200-230hp but only 180ft-lbs of torque can run 12's; having insane amounts of one will counter having not-alot of the other. Remember: HP is an imaginery number derived off of torque, which can be seen in numerous ways.

You've taken much physics, yes? Oh wait, no. Probably not.