V belt issues when removing a/c compressor & power steering. any help would be great

[Y00D00DZ]

hey guys so heres my problem I'm going to be facing...

i have a 1.6D 89 jetta and id like to remove the a/c compressor because the lines are already cut out and also remove my power steering. I've thought of replacing the lines but id rather just take the a/c completely out. i had an 89 16v gti and i had the problem of the water pump pulley never linking up with the crank and alt. pulley. i am 100% going to have this problem with this car. over the years I've tried pulleys from 1.8v fox lateral motor. I've tried stock 8v water pump pulleys that had no power steering. i even tried after market pulleys and that was the best bet but flipped backwards and bolted back on. it was still 3/4 of an inch off and resulted in changing belts often and lots of noise. i still do not know how to properly fix this problem

i understand i can do a serp belt conversation but it seems to be costly it seems. i am curious to see if theres alternative solutions to a serp belt. V belts are fine with me and due to the cost of a conversation id rather do a V belt at this time.

so to go over the full point of this post...

id like to remove power steering and a/c compressor from my 1.6D and run a better fitting water pump pulley and/or alt. pulley to make this possible. any info would be awesome!

Cheers!
mikeparisio@gmail.com

[theman53]

water pump should be inline with the crank, no? Shim whatever or cut whatever accessories above it to line up with it. Find a good correct length belt and you should be in business. IIRC you should think about getting into a manual rack if you delete the PS. I haven't done it but I have heard from those that have sometimes they only make it a year and the rack is shot. Others have said it goes for years with no issues...just something to prepare for.

[Glegor]

to remove A/C correctly, you need all of these pulleys off a non-a/c engine:

crank pulley
water pump pulley
alternator bracket..

or, atleast thats how you do it on an 8v engine..

my 86 GTI came factory without a/c or p/s, the pulleys are different from the a/c variety..

doing the mk3 serpentine conversion was a CAKE WALK on my car.. took about an hour.

the easiest thing to do would be to find a diesel with the pulleys, and alt bracket, and take it all..

mk1 parts WILL WORK.

there were different variations of certain pulleys too.. so if your 16v pulley never lined up, it was because you never had the right pulley..

and FWIW, its really NOT THAT EXPENSIVE to upgrade to mk3 serpentine..

my alt bracket/tensioner, harmonic balancer, spare 90a alternator, and hardware cost me $75, and it came with an engine attached to it..

then i went to pick n pull, and found a VR6 passat w/ a/c on accident.. it was equipped with the ELUSIVE 120 AMP ALTERNATOR. and it also had the correct water pump pulley to run on my non-a/c car.

the 120a alternator, and the water pump pulley together cost me ~$40

so, for $115, i had a complete mk3 serpentine setup including the 120a alternator.. it is a way overkill alternator for most cars/people, but MEH, whatever, i like overkill.

oh yea, i bought a new tensioner roller just because, and in the end, used a 1034mm belt, witch is just a TAD TOO SHORT for my tastes. and i was running a 1054mm belt at first, and it worked, but it was just too long.. i feel that a belt length of ~1044mm would be PERFECT for deleting the a/c, while still driving the alternator, and water pump. oh yea, speaking of water pump, i had to make a 3/16" aluminum spacer for the water pump pulley. the VR pulley is REALLY CLOSE, and will work without the spacer, but it lines up way better (perfect) with the spacer installed..

so, to total up my costs:

ABA w/ all pulleys and hardware - $75
VR6 120a alt, and water pump pulley - $40
tensioner, and 2x belts - $60

and if i would have had to pay someone to make the bracket for the 4th bolt hole, it probably would have been another $25-50..

so, YEA.. damn.. it is kinda expensive to add a serpentine system..

not to mention, you need a DIFFERENT bracket for a diesel to do the serp setup. you need an ABF alternator bracket..

[srgtlord]

Goodluck on your hunt. I burned through 5 v belts before doing the serpentine swap. My favorite perk, never tightening v-belts again

[Glegor]

Goodluck on your hunt. I burned through 5 v belts before doing the serpentine swap. My favorite perk, never tightening v-belts again

yup, sure is nice having a serp belt rather than a temperamental V belt setup..

and my alternator used to ALWAYS squeal when i had a high current draw..

im sure it would kill the engine before it squealed now..

[Y00D00DZ]

yeah i might just have to look for a non ac set up due to not having the money right now for a serp belt conversation. in all honesty i don't need to do this but it would make cleaning the engine bay way easier.

in regards to the statement of "the water pump pulley should be inline with the crank" something along that line it would be nice if it does work out that way but with my old 16v (which i regret getting rid of so much) this is how it was

crank inline with the alt.
water pump thrown off just about one inch.

after using all other pulleys i.e. mk2 8v water pump pulley, mk1 8v pulley, fox 8v pulley (strange set of pulleys and i actually still have most of them), unorthodox "light weight" power steering pulley.

the car had an unorthodox crank pulley but the diameter and spacing were identical. i did not put this on.

i ended up using the power steering pulley and flipping it reverse and it worked the best. i went from changing V belts every month to every 4-6 months which was way better at the time. but now i'm not feeling like i should have to settle on this problem.

ill make a trip to the junk yard soon and see what i can snag. ill let you guys know how it goes
thanks for the talk and any other ideas please feel free to post.

this is a slow project so i'm just taking it easy

[Y00D00DZ]

and glegor thanks for the info it is duly noted and if you have an idea of where to get an abf bracket that be a good tip (off of what) but i will also do some research!

[srgtlord]

I telling you now, if you do not have a matching set of pullies you will have a big headache in the end. Do yourself a favor and save up for a matching set of pullies, serp or not.

[Glegor]

I telling you now, if you do not have a matching set of pullies you will have a big headache in the end. Do yourself a favor and save up for a matching set of pullies, serp or not.

my pulleys dont match on my diesel.. i just have all the correct spacers to line everything up!

ive got a crank pulley from a 77 1.5D, and its only about 4 7/8" where as the 1.6D pulley is around 6", so i made an underdrive..

[iheartbeets]

and glegor thanks for the info it is duly noted and if you have an idea of where to get an abf bracket that be a good tip (off of what) but i will also do some research!

1.9 AAZ diesel engine has the serpentine swap you are after. I got the bracket, pullies, all hardware and the spring for $40. Belt for $20. Alternator for $100 (New) and clutched pulley for $40. I used the whole power steering setup from an ABA to maintain PS.

There was a raging debate about this swap being detrimental to the keyway on the end of the crank and eventually destroying your engine. Extra peace of mind includes broaching the end of the crank to accept the TDI timing belt sprocket and/or using the freewheeling clutch pulley on your alternator. I did both just for reassurance. It's been a year and I haven't had to change a single dang belt. Good luck.

[srgtlord]

The aaz bracket is the same as the alh....or was it the ahu? Somebody must know

[iheartbeets]

AAZ and ABF are same bracket

[Glegor]

AAZ and ABF are same bracket

AAZ bracket uses an auto tensioner..

ABF uses a manually tensioned alternator..

different bracket..

[theman53]

I think you are using gasser stuff mixed with diesel stuff. You just need to go and find a set matched to your setup. If the alt and crank match up you are looking for a water pump pulley that does. I had one that was maybe a 1/4" off. It was too close to the water pump. I took it off put 2 lockwashers under the pulley to make up for the 1/4" and bolted it on. My v belt that I put on was used and I stuck it on there when I rebuilt the engine. The engine grenaded I had 40,000 miles on it and I never tensioned the belt one time in that 40,000 miles.

I have 3 or 2 serp setups but I would not get rid of one without some serious coin...like start my retirement coin. It took me too long to get them to part easily. I don't have the setup proper for the a/c just the non a/c setup.

[iheartbeets]

AAZ bracket uses an auto tensioner..

ABF uses a manually tensioned alternator..

different bracket..

Oh. I was under the impression that they were the same. My AAZ uses a spring to provide tension to the belt. I thought the ABF uses the same thing. Well, in light of this new information, I maintain that the AAZ works flawlessly.

[Glegor]

Oh. I was under the impression that they were the same. My AAZ uses a spring to provide tension to the belt. I thought the ABF uses the same thing. Well, in light of this new information, I maintain that the AAZ works flawlessly.

on the AAZ setup, the alternator is stationary.. the tensioner arm sets the bent tension..

on the ABF setup, the alternator pivots on the top bolt, and the bottom one sets the tension..

there is a SPRING behind the alternator case on the ABF that pushes the alternator out away from the engine, and tensiones the belt..

[iheartbeets]

Glegor, I have the non ac AAZ setup and it is what you have described. I can send pics. You are thinking of the AAZ with ac. That setup is hella rare. It is like the ABA but allows clearance for the IP.

[One_PunchMachineGun]

so everyone, this is not as difficult as some might say, you do not need to replace all pullies, just the alternator pulley, and get an arm tensioner. I will post pictures tomorrow on the setup i am running. and everything is flush, i plan on make a bunch of these alternator tensioning arms, I will also give the place i bought my alternator pulley from.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO REMOVE THE A/C BRACKET, IT WILL BECOME YOUR ALT BRACKET.
THIS IS A VERY EASY TASK, WAS EXPLAINED TO ME ALL WRONG.
i will post tomorrow hopefully.

[iheartbeets]

so everyone, this is not as difficult as some might say, you do not need to replace all pullies, just the alternator pulley, and get an arm tensioner. I will post pictures tomorrow on the setup i am running. and everything is flush, i plan on make a bunch of these alternator tensioning arms, I will also give the place i bought my alternator pulley from.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO REMOVE THE A/C BRACKET, IT WILL BECOME YOUR ALT BRACKET.
THIS IS A VERY EASY TASK, WAS EXPLAINED TO ME ALL WRONG.
i will post tomorrow hopefully.

You should post this so I can sort my questions. It's also awesome to be directly involved with the immediate market rise in certain VW parts prices/availability.

[theman53]

Hear is what I did. Same bracket, just added a piece of flat steel, turnbuckle, and cut the alt a bit and shimmed to fit perfectly.