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    Thread: Starting 1929 Kitchen Remodel

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      04-13-2012 08:49 AM #1
      I am starting on my kitchen remodel. Apparently when houses were designed in 1929 they did not really put a value on kitchens like today. I have been living with 6 feet of counter space since I bought.

      I don't have any pictures of the existing kitchen but I have a picture of the 1st day of demo. I had to deconstruct the cabinets because they were built in place like furniture. I only have 1 picture. Will get more as I continue...my process is extremely slow though. This is my last room in my house after 8 years of remodeling. Averages out to about 1 room a year

      The door at the bottom is where 99% of the people enter my house. It is the back door. The door at the top goes to a congregation of the stairs, dining room, living room and front entrance hall which you can kind of see in the picture.

      Did some demo this weekend. About 95% of the demo is done, just need to remove some windows but that will wait till I have the new windows. Have not decided if I want to remove the floor down to the real subfloor or not yet.

      Found an easter egg also. A gas and electric bill from 1923. Strange since the city auditor says my house was built in 1929.



      Last edited by JsnVR6Corrado; 06-13-2012 at 03:28 PM.

    2. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 09:10 AM #2
      Good luck. Interested to see how the project progresses.

    3. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 10:01 AM #3
      I prefer kitchens with the work triangle between fridge, sink, and range as small as possible.



      Using your drawing on the right as a reference, I'd put the fridge by the door where you have it, sink at the window where it is traditionally placed, dishwasher next to the sink, range to the right of the dishwasher. The counter top on top of your dishwasher is your slice 'n dice area conveniently between the sink and the range. The dead corner counter top to the left of the sink is where you put clean non-dishwasher things to dry. Trash goes in what you have marked as 18" base.

      With that layout, you're going to need to put the utensils you use most frequently in canisters on the counter top or held magnetically (like a knife rack) or with hooks on the wall.

      I'm not a big fan of microwave over range. I prefer using a range hood with a big-quiet fan. It's hard to find a microwave with a decent built-in fan. You have an exterior wall right there so you don't need to steal space from the cabinet above the range hood to duct the exhaust from the range hood. YMMV.

      The drawback with that layout is that it's steps across the kitchen to get to the silverware drawer. If you often have two people doing the cooking at the same time, you might consider a 2nd small sink on that opposing counter top because there's nowhere for a 2nd person inside that small-efficient triangle.

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      04-13-2012 10:11 AM #4
      We've got the bones of a 1939 kitchen hiding under the cabinet-refacing a previous owner did in the 90s, so I'm interested in how this progresses.

      Looks like you have a plan, but if it were me:
      - I'd go with your second rendering (stove on LEFT side)
      - I'm not sure what kind of range you have planned, but the range has become the focal point of the kitchen these days. I would get it as close to center on your long wall and consider a highly decorative backsplash (whatever fits your style) with a 'fancy' hood
      - It looks like most people will enter the kitchen from the doorway in the upper left; the range/backsplash will be the first thing they see and quite dramatic
      - The range will also be visible from the hall/dining room, which can be nice too
      - I'd consider moving the sink under the window. I know this is very traditional, but there's a reason for that; if you've had to spend any time at a sink that just faces the wall, it gets old realllllly fast.

      I took a kitchen design class for DIYers a few months back and one thing the designer suggested that really stuck with me is to put the microwave as close to the fridge as possible. No one really cooks in them, they are for heating things up that you probably pulled from the fridge. He even suggested getting a 'drawer' microwave or putting the pantry right next to the fridge and hiding the microwave in it. Close the pantry doors and it's out of site.

      If I think of anything else from that class, I'll post it here.

      Keep us updated!

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      04-13-2012 02:15 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      I prefer kitchens with the work triangle between fridge, sink, and range as small as possible.

      Using your drawing on the right as a reference, I'd put the fridge by the door where you have it, sink at the window where it is traditionally placed, dishwasher next to the sink, range to the right of the dishwasher. The counter top on top of your dishwasher is your slice 'n dice area conveniently between the sink and the range. The dead corner counter top to the left of the sink is where you put clean non-dishwasher things to dry. Trash goes in what you have marked as 18" base.

      With that layout, you're going to need to put the utensils you use most frequently in canisters on the counter top or held magnetically (like a knife rack) or with hooks on the wall.

      I'm not a big fan of microwave over range. I prefer using a range hood with a big-quiet fan. It's hard to find a microwave with a decent built-in fan. You have an exterior wall right there so you don't need to steal space from the cabinet above the range hood to duct the exhaust from the range hood. YMMV.

      The drawback with that layout is that it's steps across the kitchen to get to the silverware drawer. If you often have two people doing the cooking at the same time, you might consider a 2nd small sink on that opposing counter top because there's nowhere for a 2nd person inside that small-efficient triangle.
      Is this layout what you were explaining?


    6. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 03:58 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by JsnVR6Corrado View Post
      Is this layout what you were explaining?
      Yeah, though looking at it drawn out, it's a little bit shy on counter top for food prep on either side of the sink. A 22"-24" undermount single sink would help but a lot of people seem to be in love with double sinks.

      Too tight for me even with a smaller sink, sadly.

      Anything I did would have the sink centered over the window (the traditional location) with the dishwasher to the right of the sink. That's the best orientation to avoid dripping water on the floor when doing the dishes. I wouldn't want to give that up unless it was impossible to find a configuration that worked.



      I'd look at an alternative where the fridge location becomes the counter top food prep area and you put a fridge where you show the microwave in the last photo. If you don't want the fridge to stick out, go with a counter top depth model. You can also be creative and sink a standard size/less expensive fridge into the wall to gain 3"+. That would give you tons of food prep area near the sink. Extra steps to the fridge, though.

      In my summer place, the wall section between the fridge and my living room is just 1" plywood that is skim coated on the living room side. I picked up 3 1/2" of very valuable space.



      Edited:
      If you can live with a sink that is not centered on the window, I'd take an earlier drawing you did and flip the sink and range. That minimizes steps since you tend to go between fridge and food prep area next to the sink. You want the range and fridge farthest apart since you rarely go from the fridge directly to the range.

      Last edited by GeoffD; 04-13-2012 at 04:04 PM.

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      04-16-2012 08:39 PM #7
      Here are the 2 bills I found in the walls I demo'd.




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      04-17-2012 10:28 AM #8
      My house was built in the same era and was also built with 12 inch thick brick. When we redid our kitchen we decided to cut the hole for the range hood. I have to say, after 2 years it continues to be our favorite part of the kitchen. We have a 600 cfm blower in there which can suck out most messes I can make. We do grilling inside i the winter with a cast iron grill prill and it doesn't even smell like we're cooking inside the house. If you have the opportunity to put the range on an outside wall, I HIGHLY suggest you consider the hood.
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      04-17-2012 08:57 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by sicklyscott View Post
      My house was built in the same era and was also built with 12 inch thick brick. When we redid our kitchen we decided to cut the hole for the range hood. I have to say, after 2 years it continues to be our favorite part of the kitchen. We have a 600 cfm blower in there which can suck out most messes I can make. We do grilling inside i the winter with a cast iron grill prill and it doesn't even smell like we're cooking inside the house. If you have the opportunity to put the range on an outside wall, I HIGHLY suggest you consider the hood.
      How did you cut out a hole? Any pictures?

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      04-18-2012 12:43 PM #10
      I basically used a cold chissel and a mini sledge. I cut out a rectangle (went with the rectangle style vent) and just checked for fit every so often. I have siding on the outside of my house so I wasn't too concerned with the cleanliness of the cut. If it was an issue I would have bought a couple cutting wheels and scored the surfaces to get the clean edge I would need. I'm not saying it was an easy job, my forearms looked ilke Pop-eye's afterwards but it was worth the couple of hours.





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      04-18-2012 01:06 PM #11
      why not put the stove and fridge on the left wall, and keep the sink on the right wall beneath the window with dishwasher on the left?

      edit- looking at the pics, the window sills are low, so it looks below counter height. That would create a pocket behind the cabinet in front of it... kind of strange. Same issue with the window on the wall with the exterior door, just on the side/end of the cabinet, not the back.

      So why not keep the sink and dishwasher where they are, move the stove and fridge to the left wall, and put in an island? Have no cabinets on the exterior wall with the window. Maybe expose the brick on that wall only?

      edit again:
      Last edited by vdubjettaman; 04-18-2012 at 01:46 PM.
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      04-18-2012 11:45 PM #12
      Following for ideas for my kitchen
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      04-19-2012 04:29 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by vdubjettaman View Post
      why not put the stove and fridge on the left wall, and keep the sink on the right wall beneath the window with dishwasher on the left?

      edit- looking at the pics, the window sills are low, so it looks below counter height. That would create a pocket behind the cabinet in front of it... kind of strange. Same issue with the window on the wall with the exterior door, just on the side/end of the cabinet, not the back.

      So why not keep the sink and dishwasher where they are, move the stove and fridge to the left wall, and put in an island? Have no cabinets on the exterior wall with the window. Maybe expose the brick on that wall only?

      edit again:
      I like that layout. I have modified it just slightly. I like that the island allows people to converse with the cook instead of everyone being back to back with nothing in the middle of the space. What program are you using? What is the cabinet between the fridge and wall?

      Here is how I modified it to have some full height pantry cabinets.


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      04-19-2012 10:42 PM #14
      I'm a residential designer and draftsman with a bachelors in Architecture and this is what I do for a living. The program is called Softplan 2012. It's a 3D modeling software specifically designed with the residential building/construction in mind. Everything is a 3D component, but can also be done using lines if you want.
      The cabinet beside the fridge and exterior wall was a tall pantry unit, much like what you put over by the door. I did it because of the proximity of the fridge and exterior wall with other cabinets. Not deep enough for standard cabinet depth, and the width wasn't really practical for a base & wall cabinet. There's also full height panels on either side of the fridge, which I made 36" wide, not the 30" it looks like you are using (for future fridge purchase if you desire) The panels are also 24" deep and the wall cabinet above the fridge is also 24" deep. It's an illusion of a custom built in refrigerator without the cost. Usually we put dividers in that cabinet and it's used for storage of platters, cooking trays, etc. Stuff that is long/awkward size and not used on a daily basis.

      Glad you like it tho.
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      04-23-2012 11:27 AM #15
      Started framing out the walls to make the plumb and flat. Plaster walls with lath do not have to be as well built. Put in blocking for mounting cabinets so I don't have to find the studs.

      Also got rid of as much knob and tube wiring that I could. Started re-wiring a little and added a wall scone to my stairs since they were a little dark. This allowed me to terminate some knob and tube that was running down to the kitchen under cabinet light.

      Last edited by JsnVR6Corrado; 06-13-2012 at 03:30 PM.

    16. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      04-23-2012 01:24 PM #16
      Everybody's a critic but that's an awful lot of thermal bridge on a brick exterior wall. It looks like you're framing with 2x4s turned the wrong way. If it were me, I'd ditch the blocking, keep the framing to 1.5" width, and plan on putting in 2" rigid foam insulation.

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      04-23-2012 02:12 PM #17
      The whole house is solid brick...there is no insulation on any of the exterior walls or even the roof that I know of. The attic is finished to the underside of the rafters and I do not think it has insulation in the rafters. There are only like 2 rooms which have been furred out and that is only because I wanted to remove "bumps" from chimneys. To insulate 1 room would be a ridiculous waste of time for a net gain of almost nothing.

      Obviously the ideal situation would be to fur out every exterior wall and add insulation but...that would have been a whole bunch of extra cost and time. All but a few exterior walls were in perfect condition and only required some mud for holes and paint.

      The "blocking" running horizontal is just there to make up for the 1" thick plaster on the brick and give me something to screw the gypsum board to.

      I did not feel the need to remove all the plaster just to fur out the wall.



      I know everyone is a critic and I value your opinion and it is obviously a good opinion but the cost is too high, not to mention I do not want to mud the entirety of the perimeter walls of my house, on all 3 floors.

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      06-13-2012 08:13 AM #18
      Wow, time flies. Well, I have all the framing and electric finished. Also ripped out the 2 layers of vinyl floor and luan(sp?).

      Got the ceiling gwb on and the recessed lights in the ceiling. Also ordered my cabinets which should be at my house in 1 month. In that month I need to get all the gwb tapped and painted and also get the floor done. I am going to go with sheet vinyl for now (cost). I am going to put a sheet of 3/4 ply under the base cabinets so that if I want to go with tile floor in the future the cabinets wont be too low.


      Here is the final kitchen layout.


      Here are 2 pictures of my (slow) progress.



      In this next picture you can see that I added blocking at the 36" height, 54" height and 96" height. This will make hanging the cabinets much easier. I will not have to look for the stud to attach my cabinets, just screw anywhere you want.

      The high outlet is for low voltage lighting either above or below the cabinets. Have not decided which I want to do yet. Maybe I will do both.




      Last edited by JsnVR6Corrado; 06-18-2012 at 03:34 PM.

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      07-02-2012 08:23 AM #19
      nice layout
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      07-02-2012 05:45 PM #20
      You've got some cool exposed brick on the wall with the window... Is that getting covered up? I don't know what it looks like passed the window, but if it would be cleaned a bit somehow it would at a unique look to the kitchen I think (unless it destroys your plans) .


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      07-02-2012 08:01 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by 1stRabbit View Post
      You've got some cool exposed brick on the wall with the window... Is that getting covered up? I don't know what it looks like passed the window, but if it would be cleaned a bit somehow it would at a unique look to the kitchen I think (unless it destroys your plans) .
      If I'm reading the plans correctly, the range is centered on that new wall with a gap between the brick and where the cabinets to the left of the range start. There is nothing in the plans that obstructs that brick feature at the window.

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      07-21-2012 09:44 PM #22
      All the gyp board is up, finished and sanded and ready for paint.

      All my cabinets are delivered and sitting in the living room. Hopefully next weekend I can get the upper cabinets installed.



    23. 07-22-2012 07:38 PM #23
      What brand are those cabinets?

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      07-25-2012 04:58 PM #24
      I went with Lowes Cabinets, Shenedoha(SP?) They have all soft close doors and drawers. They are particle board boxes with solid wood fronts which is fine with me. I got a simple recessed panel door in espresso finish to help contrast with my standard oak floors. Didn't want to have 2 different wood colors.

      Have the ceiling painted and will be painting the walls before the weekend. Hope to get some of the upper cabinets in this weekend.

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      07-25-2012 05:31 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by JsnVR6Corrado View Post
      They are particle board boxes with solid wood fronts which is fine with me.
      this is very common actually.
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      07-28-2012 07:32 PM #26
      Well, I got the walls and ceiling painted.

      I also got the wall cabinets up. My Dad came over and helped. He has helped me a great deal throughout this and has taught me everything I know about home improvement. Some correct and some well......still works He has only shocked himself twice during this little remodel.

      Here is the sink wall


      Here is two shots of the other wall





      I am undecided on my countertop... still. After seeing the Concrete Honey Do thread I think I want to give that a shot. I might try the island first and see how things go. Pretty cheap experiment if it doesn't work out.

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      08-26-2012 08:34 PM #27
      Well, finally got some time to work on the kitchen again. Was on vacation for 2 weeks and out of town on business. Got the sub floor down and put some 3/4" ply under the cabinets to make up for the finish floor thickness. Still have not decided if I want to go with the Hardwood like the rest of the 1st floor or go with tile.

      Next step is finding the best option for countertops. I am not planning on keeping this house and will probably move in the next 6 months. If I can find a place for granite remnants that might be my best option for a quality looking countertop at an affordable price.

      Here are some pictures of my base cabinets installed.






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      08-30-2012 07:31 PM #28
      Decided to go with butcher block countertops. I looked at the pros and cons of laminate and granite. I went with butcher block because it was the same cost as laminate and about 1/4 the cost of granite.

      Here is a picture. You can barely see the tile I am thinking in the bottom corner of the picture.


      In this picture the countertop on the left of the range is not "installed".
      Last edited by JsnVR6Corrado; 08-31-2012 at 03:52 PM.

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      08-31-2012 03:53 PM #29
      Looking for a little advice.

      I am not sure how I want to treat the end of the countertop. I planned on putting a full height 16" wide X 12" deep cabinet at the end to hold brooms and cleaning supplies. I had also thought about a wine rack but since it is near the window I didn't think that would be a good location for wine.

      Another option is for a 16" wide base cabinet with the counter continued to the window but I am not sure I would like the countertop being in the window.

      I was also thinking about a 16" deep "desk" countertop that would be the height of the window sill and continue back to the wall.

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      08-31-2012 04:28 PM #30
      Looking great and giving me ideas of doing mine soon
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      02-05-2013 07:40 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by JsnVR6Corrado View Post
      Looking for a little advice.

      I am not sure how I want to treat the end of the countertop. I planned on putting a full height 16" wide X 12" deep cabinet at the end to hold brooms and cleaning supplies. I had also thought about a wine rack but since it is near the window I didn't think that would be a good location for wine.

      Another option is for a 16" wide base cabinet with the counter continued to the window but I am not sure I would like the countertop being in the window.

      I was also thinking about a 16" deep "desk" countertop that would be the height of the window sill and continue back to the wall.
      my initial suggestion:
      run the counter to the wall, with a round or angled cut to the window sill (maybe?) and put a trashcan under the counter there. Garbage or recycling. Between the wall and the cabinet run open shelving the same color as the cabinets with lights and put wine/beer glasses there.
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      02-06-2013 06:54 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      my initial suggestion:
      run the counter to the wall, with a round or angled cut to the window sill (maybe?) and put a trashcan under the counter there. Garbage or recycling. Between the wall and the cabinet run open shelving the same color as the cabinets with lights and put wine/beer glasses there.
      I plan on doing the open shelving to fill the void.

      I have been done with my renovation for a little while. Here are a few of the final pictures.




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