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    Thread: Man tries using EBT card for bail: your hard earned tax dollars put to good use

    1. Member zaYG's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 04:54 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by spkn^GRMN View Post
      Really? You have strolled around college campuses lately or met many business owners have you?
      And go to college campuses in Europe and you won't find tons of Americans?

      I find it cute that people think America is socialist.

      It's called fascism. Giving to the poor isn't something done for equalization, it is simply a way to shut up the plebians and buy their votes. There is a extremely close connection between large corporations and the government and they simply do anything they can to quell the masses.

      We are much closer to 1930s Italy than we are anything else.
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    2. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 04:54 PM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by spkn^GRMN View Post
      People fight tooth and nail to come to America from all over the world. Canada?
      My job is related to immigration. We have many, MANY people from all over the third world coming here and already here. The US is not the only first-world destination.

      How does immigration make socialism not feasible again?

    3. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 04:55 PM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by Run L1ke H3LL View Post
      People go to work because they are rewarded for their hard work by getting payed. Eventually in a socialist system the middle class loses the will to work, joins the freeloaders, and the money runs out. It's a simple fact of nature that freeloaders are either punished or everyone becomes a freeloader.
      Why has this fear not materialized in Canada or any of the other countries on my list with deep socialist tendencies and higher quality of life than the US?

    4. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 04:56 PM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by Run L1ke H3LL View Post
      Higher quality of life for who? You because if things were to change tomorrow and the entire country flipped to socialism, not a thing would change for you. The inner city and the extremely poor would get your money. If you think you'd be getting anything you're mistaken. And by "you" I mean everyone who is fortunate enough to have the access to and free time to post on the internet.
      I'm not American. I'm Canadian. I already pay a significant portion of my income to support people who earn less than me. Yet, Canadians generally have a higher quality of life than Americans.

      Same is true for many of the other countries on my list.

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      04-14-2012 04:57 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      Given a choice between being a "prosperous country" and having a higher quality of life, I'll take the latter. Of what benefit is all that prosperity if it doesn't make your life better?
      Ok, reading between your lines again, what you're actually saying is you can't take care of yourself so you perfer the govt as a crutch to prop up your quality of life, collectivism? I see.

      So what if you started your own business, became extremely successful, made an assload of money and the the govt wanted over half of all the profits & revenues? Are you ok with giving half of your money (January-June you & the business make nothing) and then July-Dec is yours?
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      04-14-2012 04:57 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      1) That didn't really answer my question. You implied that you have experiences living under a socialist system that none of us have. What are they, and why do they invalidate the examples of the many countries on the list I posted earlier with deep socialist tendencies and higher quality of life than the US by nearly all measures?

      2) China is not socialist or communist. They're very nearly the sort of anarcho-capitalist country that many Ron Paul fans advocate.
      I have lived under Communism/Socialism. Where 70% of your money is taxed and everything belongs to the state. How about that? That gives me ample experience with Socialism.

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      04-14-2012 04:59 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I'm not American. I'm Canadian. I already pay a significant portion of my income to support people who earn less than me. Yet, Canadians generally have a higher quality of life than Americans.

      Same is true for many of the other countries on my list.
      Based on what data? You say this and that and do not back it up. What other countries on your list? I have not seen a list yet.

    8. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 05:00 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by spkn^GRMN View Post
      Ok, reading between your lines again, what you're actually saying is you can't take care of yourself so you perfer the govt as a crutch to prop up your quality of life, collectivism? I see.

      So what if you started your own business, became extremely successful, made an assload of money and the the govt wanted over half of all the profits & revenues? Are you ok with giving half of your money (January-June you & the business make nothing) and then July-Dec is yours?
      You're not reading what I'm saying. I am successful and earn well above average income. I'm not asking anyone to support me. I support others and I'm happy to. By any objective measure, the same is true of many of the countries with higher taxes than the US.

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      04-14-2012 05:00 PM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      Why has this fear not materialized in Canada or any of the other countries on my list with deep socialist tendencies and higher quality of life than the US?
      Because Canada still has many capitalist aspects where the middle class is actually benefited. Its not 100% socialist. Just like the US its a mix of both socialism and capitalism.
      OTC

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      04-14-2012 05:01 PM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      The US is not the only first-world destination.

      How does immigration make socialism not feasible again?
      The US may not be the only but it is the top, by a w-i-d-e margin. No?
      People leave socialism to come here, to escape if you will. This is no secret, I thought you knew.
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    11. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 05:01 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by B3sat16v View Post
      I have lived under Communism/Socialism. Where 70% of your money is taxed and everything belongs to the state. How about that? That gives me ample experience with Socialism.
      That is not what I or anyone else is advocating. I'm advocating a system like Canada or many European countries, where taxes are well below 70% and not everything belongs to the state.

      It sounds like you're addressing a strawman.

    12. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 05:02 PM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by B3sat16v View Post
      Based on what data? You say this and that and do not back it up. What other countries on your list? I have not seen a list yet.
      On my first post two pages back.

    13. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 05:02 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by Run L1ke H3LL View Post
      Because Canada still has many capitalist aspects where the middle class is actually benefited. Its not 100% socialist. Just like the US its a mix of both socialism and capitalism.
      No one is advocating 100% socialism.

    14. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 05:03 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by spkn^GRMN View Post
      The US may not be the only but it is the top, by a w-i-d-e margin. No?
      People leave socialism to come here, to escape if you will. This is no secret, I thought you knew.
      In terms of rate, the US is not the top. Further, how does immigration make socialism unfeasible. Finally, which socialist countries are people immigrating to the US from?

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      04-14-2012 05:04 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      You're not reading what I'm saying. I am successful and earn well above average income. I'm not asking anyone to support me. I support others and I'm happy to. By any objective measure, the same is true of many of the countries with higher taxes than the US.
      This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. You're evidence of the American mentality is in this thread. At one point it was called the American Dream. Waking up everyday and busting your ass to make it. That still holds true for a large number of people, because of this we won't stand by and let those hard earned dollars go.
      OTC

    16. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 05:05 PM #121
      Quote Originally Posted by Run L1ke H3LL View Post
      This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. You're evidence of the American mentality is in this thread. At one point it was called the American Dream. Waking up everyday and busting your ass to make it. That still holds true for a large number of people, because of this we won't stand by and let those hard earned dollars go.
      I don't think you read my post right.

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      04-14-2012 05:06 PM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      That is not what I or anyone else is advocating. I'm advocating a system like Canada or many European countries, where taxes are well below 70% and not everything belongs to the state.

      It sounds like you're addressing a strawman.
      Well since you guys claim to be so versed on Socialism. I was pointing out Socialism, a truer for of it. The Socialism I have experienced.

      For anything to work on Harmony Capitalism and much as Socialism is needed. Capitalism does work better than Socialism, but in fact to keep everyone happy in the country, some Socialistic Ideas need to be implemented.

      I do not mind paying Taxes, but when you hear stories about freeloaders in the USA is infuriating. So I much prefer pure Capitalism. I know I will survive Capitalism just fine. Freeloaders, no so much.

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      04-14-2012 05:11 PM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by zaYG View Post

      We are much closer to 1930s Italy than we are anything else.
      Ahhh yes, America is definitely closer to a Mussolini dictatorship of 1930's Italy.
      -Wes

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      04-14-2012 05:18 PM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by spkn^GRMN View Post
      Really? You have strolled around college campuses lately or met many business owners have you?
      yeah, I've met plenty of foreigners from 3rd world countries that have settled here and they are happy to do so. How many people from industrialized European nations do you see climbing the walls to come here? Any? We have such a problem with Canadians trying to get into this country that we have a fence and armed guards patrolling every square inch of the border...ohh wait...no we don't. The students you see on the campuses that are from 1st world countries aren't staying here. They are just using the educational system.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

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      04-14-2012 05:19 PM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by B3sat16v View Post
      I have lived under Communism/Socialism. Where 70% of your money is taxed and everything belongs to the state. How about that? That gives me ample experience with Socialism.
      That's not socialism. That's communism.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    21. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 05:21 PM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by B3sat16v View Post
      Well since you guys claim to be so versed on Socialism. I was pointing out Socialism, a truer for of it. The Socialism I have experienced.

      For anything to work on Harmony Capitalism and much as Socialism is needed. Capitalism does work better than Socialism, but in fact to keep everyone happy in the country, some Socialistic Ideas need to be implemented.

      I do not mind paying Taxes, but when you hear stories about freeloaders in the USA is infuriating. So I much prefer pure Capitalism. I know I will survive Capitalism just fine. Freeloaders, no so much.
      I am not arguing for anything in excess. What you describe sounds excessive.

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      04-14-2012 05:21 PM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I am successful and earn well above average income. I'm not asking anyone to support me. I support others and I'm happy to. By any objective measure, the same is true of many of the countries with higher taxes than the US.
      So what's your tax rate?

      I'm self-employed and earn a nice living myself but when comes to "fair", I feel a round number of 25% should suffice. That way I can live off 50%, invest 15%, 10% to charity, and 25% to taxes.
      -Wes

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      04-14-2012 05:25 PM #128
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      yeah, I've met plenty of foreigners from 3rd world countries that have settled here and they are happy to do so. How many people from industrialized European nations do you see climbing the walls to come here? Any? We have such a problem with Canadians trying to get into this country that we have a fence and armed guards patrolling every square inch of the border...ohh wait...no we don't. The students you see on the campuses that are from 1st world countries aren't staying here. They are just using the educational system.
      Agreed to disagree with this. Honestly this is
      -Wes

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      04-14-2012 05:48 PM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      they tried that in florida. it didnt really work as well as the anti-welfare crowd would have hoped.
      Just use some piss in a bottle taped to your leg when you go for a drug test.
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      04-14-2012 05:51 PM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      That's not socialism. That's communism.
      No, it is called Socialism. I would not expect you to know what it means.

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      04-14-2012 06:28 PM #131
      The system is screwed up. I see it on a daily basis and it makes me sick. People cheating, lieing and abusing the system cause they are lazy and don't want to work or do much to get by. Wish they would make it harder for people to get the aid they need or a way to make sure they are using it what it is meant for. No wonder why each state and even the government is saying they are losing money and/or going in or are in debt. They are handing out free money to people.
      I have seen people who could really need the help or aid, but are turned away and then some jackass who doesnt really need it get it.
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      04-14-2012 06:46 PM #132
      99% of the problem IMHO lies with allowing companies to fund election campaigns

      Elections shouldn't be funded by private money not even the candidates.
      Let some-one collect 100.000 signatures to be able to run and then give them 1 million to fund their election with government money.
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      04-14-2012 06:50 PM #133
      I'm going to say what I say in every healthcare or socialism thread. The main 'problem' with this country and applying the rules of other countries is the fact that the USA has an extremely heterozygous population. Moreso than any other nation. Socialism works to certain extents in Canada and Europe because basically everyone is the same and wants the same things. So as long as we're a melting pot, socialism will not work.

      That being said, welfare should be temporary. 6 months. And you absolutely should have to pass a drug test to get it. Go look at Appalachia and tell me that mandatory drug tests for their aid wouldn't begin to start to solve some of the problems there.
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      04-14-2012 07:02 PM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by Crob View Post
      Even though the USA's founding fathers their selves were wealthy and of elite social status that didn't trust monarchs, the government still evolved to the point where only individuals from the right families, with money, connections, and going to the right schools, are the only ones that end up in higher ranked political positions in our government. Aristocrats controls the USA.
      That's just an apathetic point of view and a cop out.
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      04-14-2012 07:23 PM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by spkn^GRMN View Post
      Ahhh yes, America is definitely closer to a Mussolini dictatorship of 1930's Italy.
      How about you read up on history and actually learn about their economic system before acting like you know what you are talking about.

      Economically they are very similar. Obamacare is much closer to fascism than it is to "socialism" as you would all say.
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      04-14-2012 07:25 PM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by DUTCHMANia View Post
      99% of the problem IMHO lies with allowing companies to fund election campaigns
      This.
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      04-14-2012 07:27 PM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by Crob View Post
      Vote Ron Paul, but he'll never win. Presidents are hand picked, by the social elite, the political parties, the corporate monarchs, banks, etc.

      Voters just have the illusion of participating, when they really have no say in the matter (example: GWB Jr.)
      For real. Bush Jr got a ton of flak for everything, yet was also considered stupid.

      I don't think he was smart enough to come up with all of the awful things that happened in those years
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      04-14-2012 07:30 PM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by 8V Fury View Post
      The system is screwed up. I see it on a daily basis and it makes me sick. People cheating, lieing and abusing the system cause they are lazy and don't want to work or do much to get by. Wish they would make it harder for people to get the aid they need or a way to make sure they are using it what it is meant for. No wonder why each state and even the government is saying they are losing money and/or going in or are in debt. They are handing out free money to people.
      I have seen people who could really need the help or aid, but are turned away and then some jackass who doesnt really need it get it.
      Yeah, we should never have bailed out the banks. Just gave those lazy good-for-nothings no incentive to change
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

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      04-14-2012 07:35 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by Crob View Post
      Who do you think controls this country? Not just ours, but almost every country on the planet? Banks.

      They would've just sent the world spiraling into another Great Depression if they didn't get their way. The possibility of another World War would be inevitable if they hadn't got their way.
      it didnt' prevent anything, it just pushed the problem off until later. It's inevitable.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

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      04-14-2012 07:57 PM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by Crob View Post
      Vote Ron Paul, but he'll never win. Presidents are hand picked, by the social elite, the political parties, the corporate monarchs, banks, etc.

      Voters just have the illusion of participating, when they really have no say in the matter (example: GWB Jr.)
      You're exactly right except for the example which should read Obama. Did anyone really hear or know of him before 2008? He was a Senator for 2yrs then president out of nowhere? Obama burst onto the scene as our saviour. How's that Hope and Change working out for ya?

      It's the "world ruling elite" who prep and control the balance of governance in America and around the world. There's plenty of info out there on this subject.

      Quote Originally Posted by zaYG View Post
      How about you read up on history and actually learn about their economic system before acting like you know what you are talking about.
      I know the differences, I've studied history, economics, & religions. I'm an old bastard who's read more than enough to form rational & intelligent summations of various contrasts between each. You need a refresh course on the other hand.
      Last edited by spkn^GRMN; 04-14-2012 at 08:10 PM.
      -Wes

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