Man tries using EBT card for bail: your hard earned tax dollars put to good use

[Egilbe]

Exactly, my statement was 'pay something', as in anything, which is to be determined.
Or are you for the upper 50% of the population pays and the other half sits it out?

Are you that dense? Compare a person living on $1200 a month to someone who's making millions in capital gains. Poor person buys an apple and a rich person buys an apple. Who has more money left over? Who's paying more in taxes as a percentage of money earned on that apple?

[spkn^GRMN]

Self reliance died with the advent of the industrial revolution. Greedy rich bastards need low wage paid slaves to work in the factories. When the standard of living rose post WWII, and the US had the highest skilled workforce that were unionized, the greedy, rich bastards starting exploiting Chinese peasants.

Big govt apparatus, big unions, collectivism, minions... I see where we're going here... pinko socialism? Bernie Sanders much?

[Egilbe]

Big govt apparatus, big unions, collectivism, minions... I see where we're going here... pinko socialism? Bernie Sanders much?

Capitalism is as broken as communism. I'm a socialist. Shoot me.

[spkn^GRMN]

Are you that dense? Compare a person living on $1200 a month to someone who's making millions in capital gains. Poor person buys an apple and a rich person buys an apple. Who has more money left over? Who's paying more in taxes as a percentage of money earned on that apple?

Well, I see you're thinking at least. You are speaking of tax rates and percentages which should be adjusted for the bottom. I'm speaking of the folks near the 50% line who pay zip, not the bottom 10%. Those that need help we have those programs in place. This isn't hard to understand, I don't think.

Capital gains are taxed lower because they're investments using their own money. If you raise the effect rate what makes you think those evil richies(as they're known) won't invest elsewhere with a lower rate? They will.

[spkn^GRMN]

Capitalism is as broken as communism. I'm a socialist. Shoot me.

At least you admit it in public unlike some of our elected officials. For that I commend you.
But, I have to ask, is America on the verge of turning into a socialist nation as a whole and how if so would this transform into a better system of life here?

[B3sat16v]

Capitalism is as broken as communism. I'm a socialist. Shoot me.

I certainly hope you are not calling the USA Capitalistic because it has not been such for a long time. The USA has been a Socialistic Nation for some time and this is why is not working too well. We need to go back to full blown Capitalism. Survival of the fittest and the brightest.

[B3sat16v]

At least you admit it in public unlike some of our elected officials. For that I commend you.
But, I have to ask, is America on the verge of turning into a socialist nation as a whole and how if so would this transform into a better system of life here?

It has been a Socialistic Nation for the past 30, if not 40 years, heck the beginning of Socialism in this country started sometime in the 1930s if not earlier.

[Egilbe]

At least you admit it in public unlike some of our elected officials. For that I commend you.
But, I have to ask, is America on the verge of turning into a socialist nation as a whole and how if so would this transform into a better system of life here?

We are no where near being socilaistic. We have a plutocracy where the very rich control and corrupt the system. With communism you get apathy, with capitalism you get a plutocracy. Eventually it's all going to be destroyed and we sink back into the dark ages.

[Egilbe]

Well, I see you're thinking at least. You are speaking of tax rates and percentages which should be adjusted for the bottom. I'm speaking of the folks near the 50% line who pay zip, not the bottom 10%. Those that need help we have those programs in place. This isn't hard to understand, I don't think.

Capital gains are taxed lower because they're investments using their own money. If you raise the effect rate what makes you think those evil richies(as they're known) won't invest elsewhere with a lower rate? They will.

um...the bottom 50% pay zip because they barely make enough money to live on.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Socialism will never work in the US. Americans will never put up with the attempt at multiplying wealth by dividing it.

[B3sat16v]

Socialism will never work in the US. Americans will never put up with the attempt at multiplying wealth by dividing it.

I can tell none of you have ever lived, or been to a Socialist Country.

[B3sat16v]

We are no where near being socilaistic. We have a plutocracy where the very rich control and corrupt the system. With communism you get apathy, with capitalism you get a plutocracy. Eventually it's all going to be destroyed and we sink back into the dark ages.

Are you sure about that? This country has been socialistic for a long time. It might not be 100%, but as some of us might know 100% of anything does not work. None of the current Socialistic countries that work are not 100%. No where near close 100%.

[spkn^GRMN]

um...the bottom 50% pay zip because they barely make enough money to live on.

So 50% are at or below the poverty level right now? Government needs to tax the upper 50% an outrageous amount to 'take care' of the lower half? Government knows better how to spend your money than you do? What tax rate would be acceptable(FAIR) in your eyes for the upper 50%? Throw out some numbers.

We are no where near being socilaistic. We have a plutocracy where the very rich control and corrupt the system. With communism you get apathy, with capitalism you get a plutocracy. Eventually it's all going to be destroyed and we sink back into the dark ages.

Cornell West is that you? If crony capitalism is gutted out of our political system, plutocrates would be stymied. This country has been operating on a quasi capitalistic/socialistic platform for about twenty years now so what's the answer? Give us the end all be all solution.

This country is in a huge quandary financially and no matter what tax rate is chosen it's not enough to 'fix' our growing welfare state, even if the upper 50% paying all of their money, yep 100% of their income AND savings into the system. Read up on hyperinflation, it's coming soon also. The ruling elite will be fine, others will be left to fend for ourselves.

And I'll leave you with this to ponder...
"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" ~ Margaret Thatcher

[Jader Pack]

So let me read between the lines here, you're basically saying you need others taxes so it can afford you a higher quality of life for yourself? Whatever happened to self-reliance or are we turning into a nation of collectivism?

individualism-versus-collectivism

I pay taxes. My income is above average, and also I'm Canadian.

There's no need to read between the lines. I've said exactly what I mean: there's a strong correlation between a country's citizens having a high quality of life and that country having a high tax rate.

[spkn^GRMN]

I can tell none of you have ever lived, or been to a Socialist Country.

Never been myself but I read everything I can get my hands on and also know several folks who immigrated here from European socialist countries. Guess what, they're all staunch right wing nutz after their experiences from home. At least that's what they say.

Can you tell us your personal experiences? I like to hear all perspectives.

[Egilbe]

yeah, 50% of the US population doesn't pay federal income taxes because they barely make enough to survive. Those are the stats. It's been bandied about on this board a number of times.

In a socialist country, they actually tax the wealthy. The US taxes middle class. God forbid if the wealthy had to give back the money they "earned" off the backs of their employees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ment-debt.html

[Jader Pack]

It's something interesting to note, but most of those countries that are highly rated are more or less tiny European places that are highly homogeneous. I'm not sure people would buy into that here in the US of A.

I'm not sure what homogeneity (of what sort? Racial? Income? Political view?) has to do with taxation.

Canada, for example, isn't especially homogenous and generally rates higher than the US in terms of quality of life as well as taxation rates.

If nothing else, it casts doubt on the argument that lower taxes are the only way to live better.

[spkn^GRMN]

I pay taxes. My income is above average, and also I'm Canadian.

There's no need to read between the lines. I've said exactly what I mean: there's a strong correlation between a country's citizens having a high quality of life and that country having a high tax rate.

Canada has a population of 33 million, the US has ten times that amount. Full-blown socialism ain't gonna cut it, sorry.

[Jader Pack]

At least you admit it in public unlike some of our elected officials. For that I commend you.
But, I have to ask, is America on the verge of turning into a socialist nation as a whole and how if so would this transform into a better system of life here?

Many of the countries I mentioned earlier have many "socialist" programs that people fight against tooth and nail in the USA. And, again, they have a higher quality of life by almost any measure than the USA.

I'm not implying a causal relationship, mind you. I'm simply saying that this fear you seem to have that high taxes and socialism in certain areas lead to bad things is unfounded. Generally, the opposite is true.

[Jader Pack]

We need to go back to full blown Capitalism. Survival of the fittest and the brightest.

Why? What are you basing this assumption that capitalism is better than socialism 100% of the time on?

[Jader Pack]

I can tell none of you have ever lived, or been to a Socialist Country.

What aspect of life in what country are you referring to?

[Fritz27]

I'm not sure what homogeneity (of what sort? Racial? Income? Political view?) has to do with taxation.

Canada, for example, isn't especially homogenous and generally rates higher than the US in terms of quality of life as well as taxation rates.

If nothing else, it casts doubt on the argument that lower taxes are the only way to live better.

Politically and racially, mostly. Plus, with such a huge population, I think it's just much harder to pull off. When I think of places like France or Finland or Canada the population is small and more or less in the same boat. I think it's hard to get someone from South Beach to be of a similar mindset to someone from Muncie, Indiana. Places like Sweden don't have this problem. Everyone looks the same, has the same views, and has a similar heritage.

If America decided to pull a China it might work, but I don't see us becoming Germany or even England.

[Jader Pack]

Canada has a population of 33 million, the US has ten times that amount. Full-blown socialism ain't gonna cut it, sorry.

What exactly about it doesn't scale up?

Many of the countries I mentioned have larger populations than Canada. At what level of population does socialism become impossible?

[spkn^GRMN]

Why? What are you basing this assumption that capitalism is better than socialism 100% of the time on?

Uhhhh Yes! Hasn't America not been the most prosperous country on the face of the earth? What is our system here again?

[B3sat16v]

What aspect of life in what country are you referring to?

I am not sure your question is clear enough.

Fact is that we are Humans, and we will always want more that the guy next door. Even in Communist/Socialistic countries there is an upper crust that has more than average Joe. If you were born or are capable to get into that crust, you will have a better way of life than many. I have experiences this first hand for nearly 16 years and some of my relatives for nearly 50 years. All you have to do is look at the History of these current countries like the one you are living in, China. Even though they are Communist/Socialist, there are huge differences in classes.

[spkn^GRMN]

What exactly about it doesn't scale up?

Many of the countries I mentioned have larger populations than Canada. At what level of population does socialism become impossible?

People fight tooth and nail to come to America from all over the world. Canada?

[Egilbe]

People fight tooth and nail to come to America from all over the third world. Canada?

FTFY

People from civilized countries don't come to the US that often

[Jader Pack]

Politically and racially, mostly. Plus, with such a huge population, I think it's just much harder to pull off. When I think of places like France or Finland or Canada the population is small and more or less in the same boat. I think it's hard to get someone from South Beach to be of a similar mindset to someone from Muncie, Indiana. Places like Sweden don't have this problem. Everyone looks the same, has the same views, and has a similar heritage.

If America decided to pull a China it might work, but I don't see us becoming Germany or even England.

I don't know. I'm not so sure that the USA is so radically different from the UK. There are regional differences far older there than in the USA, there are different races and there are different opinions on politics.

I think the real obstacle is the fact that so many Americans seem to simply be indoctrinated with the idea that socialism of any kind is evil. As the many countries with high taxes and high quality of life on that list prove, it really isn't that black and white.

[Jader Pack]

Uhhhh Yes! Hasn't America not been the most prosperous country on the face of the earth? What is our system here again?

Given a choice between being a "prosperous country" and having a higher quality of life, I'll take the latter. Of what benefit is all that prosperity if it doesn't make your life better?

[spkn^GRMN]

FTFY

People from civilized countries don't come to the US that often

Really? You have strolled around college campuses lately or met many business owners have you?

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Why? What are you basing this assumption that capitalism is better than socialism 100% of the time on?

People go to work because they are rewarded for their hard work by getting payed. Eventually in a socialist system the middle class loses the will to work, joins the freeloaders, and the money runs out. It's a simple fact of nature that freeloaders are either punished or everyone becomes a freeloader.

[BRealistic]

Given a choice between being a "prosperous country" and having a higher quality of life, I'll take the latter. Of what benefit is all that prosperity if it doesn't make your life better?

Compare the US's nation debt to Germany's.....

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Given a choice between being a "prosperous country" and having a higher quality of life, I'll take the latter. Of what benefit is all that prosperity if it doesn't make your life better?

Higher quality of life for who? You because if things were to change tomorrow and the entire country flipped to socialism, not a thing would change for you. The inner city and the extremely poor would get your money. If you think you'd be getting anything you're mistaken. And by "you" I mean everyone who is fortunate enough to have the access to and free time to post on the internet.

[B3sat16v]

Many of the countries I mentioned earlier have many "socialist" programs that people fight against tooth and nail in the USA. And, again, they have a higher quality of life by almost any measure than the USA.

I'm not implying a causal relationship, mind you. I'm simply saying that this fear you seem to have that high taxes and socialism in certain areas lead to bad things is unfounded. Generally, the opposite is true.

You are wrong! And the USA has by far a higher population than most countries that are Socialistic/Capitalistic. And the way of life here in fact for most of the average Joe that bust their ass and actually work the way of life is a lot better than in most countries that are Socialistic/Capitalistic.

Socialism in countries like the USA leads to the laziness we are seeing. And with people NOT wanting to pay tax because they are too poor and then wanting to take money from the Government is pure BS. I do not mind a Balanced Socialistic country, but programs need to be better ran. The problem is, there are way too many people in the USA and the problems will continue.

And do not pull that **** that China has a better way of life than the USA.

[Jader Pack]

I am not sure your question is clear enough.

Fact is that we are Humans, and we will always want more that the guy next door. Even in Communist/Socialistic countries there is an upper crust that has more than average Joe. If you were born or are capable to get into that crust, you will have a better way of life than many. I have experiences this first hand for nearly 16 years and some of my relatives for nearly 50 years. All you have to do is look at the History of these current countries like the one you are living in, China. Even though they are Communist/Socialist, there are huge differences in classes.

1) That didn't really answer my question. You implied that you have experiences living under a socialist system that none of us have. What are they, and why do they invalidate the examples of the many countries on the list I posted earlier with deep socialist tendencies and higher quality of life than the US by nearly all measures?

2) China is not socialist or communist. They're very nearly the sort of anarcho-capitalist country that many Ron Paul fans advocate.