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    Thread: did Chris Bangle get the last laugh?

    1. Member FigureFive's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 04:51 PM #36
      The man responsible for this



      doesn't get to laugh at anything ever again.

    2. Banned seadoo2006's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 04:54 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by FigureFive View Post
      The man responsible for this



      doesn't get to laugh at anything ever again.
      See, I think that's a very, very good looking car.

    3. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 05:01 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by FigureFive View Post
      The man responsible for this



      doesn't get to laugh at anything ever again.
      The man actually responsible for that is Adrian Van Hooydonk, and he's now the design director of BMW.
      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    4. 04-16-2012 05:03 PM #39
      FLAMES

      Quote Originally Posted by Aperture View Post
      That door handle is horrible. I wish they would've used a flap-style integrated into the crease.
      Quote Originally Posted by mikegilbert View Post
      I would love to spin you off the road into a ditch.

    5. Member FigureFive's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 05:04 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      See, I think that's a very, very good looking car.
      Except for that damn trunk, I agree.

      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      The man actually responsible for that is Adrian Van Hooydonk, and he's now the design director of BMW.
      You're right, I fell for the "Bangle Butt" misnomer.

    6. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      04-16-2012 05:07 PM #41
      The "Bangle butt" on the 7-series was the origin of Chris Bangle hate. Add iDrive into the picture, and it just pissed TCLers and auto journalists off with BMW in general. The Z4 and flame surfacing came well after that initial wave.

      I remember the first thread in TCL with pictures of the then-new Z4. There were many people hating on it, largely because Chris Bangle was involved with it, but not necessarily hating the 'flame surfacing' or the car in theory. I was one of the minority (maybe 30%?) that actually liked the Z4's flame surfacing and shark-like looks. It definitely wasn't a universal panning.

      Nearly ten years on, not much has changed. Everyone still hates the "Bangle Butt," and flame surfacing still gets mixed opinions, although it is more prevalent.

    7. Member mraguilar's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 05:13 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by flat6guy View Post
      FLAMES


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      04-16-2012 05:19 PM #43
      fugly hyundai had one in mid 90's


      anyway, i think bangle was great for the auto industry. he had some hits and misses, but he really was ahead of his time. and i didn't mind his bangle butt.
      Last edited by Bones_Jones; 04-16-2012 at 05:32 PM.

    9. 04-16-2012 05:37 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by mraguilar View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Aperture View Post
      That door handle is horrible. I wish they would've used a flap-style integrated into the crease.
      Quote Originally Posted by mikegilbert View Post
      I would love to spin you off the road into a ditch.

    10. Member AHFlynn's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 05:38 PM #45
      i say beautiful.











      in my book, one of the best looking coupes of all time.
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Nah, understeering into a tree in a Honda like a teenage girl ruins your street cred. I'd leave the door to show how hard you are.

    11. Banned roadtripper's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 05:38 PM #46
      i love the statements like "on his watch." as if the man was chairman of the freaking board.

      he was HIRED HELP. drew pictures. coincidental to and timely with what his employer was doing at the time, he earned some notoriety. then it was over and everyone moved on.

      i think the "bangle butt" led to "bangle humpers" who give him WAYY more credit than is due.

      so much of automotive design is terribly derivative anyway. like a merrygoround with mirrors.

    12. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 06:03 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by roadtripper View Post
      so much of automotive design is terribly derivative anyway. like a merrygoround with mirrors.
      Sort of like your tired rants in every thread you post in

    13. 04-16-2012 06:27 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Dieselstation View Post
      So when his "Flame Surfacing" designs started rolling out, everyone HATED it! It's use of heavy creases and curves to play against lights and shadows was just too revolutionary.. and he was eventually fired from BMW from all the backlash.

      But did he get the last laugh now that you see this style of design more commonplace?

      Edit: sorry.. not sure if he was actually fired, or "resigned".. but he's no longer chief designer at BMW.
      The problem was not the 'heavy creases and curves' at all. The problem was every single panel had no continuity with another panel. It was as if a totally different group designed each panel seperately and not in communication. I've seen Fisher Price toys put together more cohesively.



      I mean, WTF? It is a desperate cry of impotence. Its like he wanted to do something different, but had zero ability to do something meaningful.
      "You'll have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

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      04-16-2012 06:34 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Egz View Post
      I never had an issue with the flame surfacing. The Dame Edna headlights and the humpback trunk lid on the other hand...
      The hump back rear lid on the 7 Series was so ugly BMW redesigned it after 1 year. I can't say I ever like the 7, but Bangle's 5 Series really worked out well:

    15. Member B3sat16v's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 06:35 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by JLJetta View Post
      The problem was not the 'heavy creases and curves' at all. The problem was every single panel had no continuity with another panel. It was as if a totally different group designed each panel seperately and not in communication. I've seen Fisher Price toys put together more cohesively.



      I mean, WTF? It is a desperate cry of impotence. Its like he wanted to do something different, but had zero ability to do something meaningful.
      You are obviously not an artist and do not have a good eye. Every panel on that car has continuity. Just follow the lines... You will see it.

    16. Member Woodski's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 06:38 PM #51
      I think the Z4 redesign looks miles better than the first one.

      I know it's a steel roof convertible, but still.

      Looks even better in GT form.

      Went from this:


      To this:

    17. Member Uberhare's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 06:39 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by devianb View Post
      I always regarded BMW styling as classy, refined, and a tad bit understated. The Bangle curves just came from no where and looked strange compared to previous models. Don't mind the styling on the other car brands, especially Mazda.
      I agree. The organic curvy lines just don't look right on a mostly conservative German vehicle. It belongs on Japanese/Korean vehicles, not BMW.
      The lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep.

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      04-16-2012 06:40 PM #53
      Woodski's post Agreed 100%, but the original Z4 is still a classy car.

    19. Senior Member TBT-Syncro's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 06:54 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by flat6guy View Post
      Bangle's designs are horrible; it doesn't matter if 98% of the world loves it, it's still horrible.
      E46 m3 is his design.

      Who's your god now?

    20. 04-16-2012 06:56 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by TBT-Syncro View Post
      E46 m3 is his design.

      Who's your god now?




      Quote Originally Posted by Aperture View Post
      That door handle is horrible. I wish they would've used a flap-style integrated into the crease.
      Quote Originally Posted by mikegilbert View Post
      I would love to spin you off the road into a ditch.

    21. 04-16-2012 07:03 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      I think Bangle was responsible for both designs.
      Bangle did not do the E39.
      22691
      "I'm trying to live vicariously through jrod here and my vicarious
      life would be better if he had a twin turbo. Or a ****ing pirate
      ship." nm+

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      04-16-2012 07:04 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by TBT-Syncro View Post
      E46 m3 is his design.

      Who's your god now?

      he was part of it, but he didn't pen the design.
      http://e46.lv/articles.php?article_id=24


      BMW's design chief, Christopher E. Bangle, is the first to admit and justify that the new car, internal code E46, is an evolutionary statement. "When we make a revolutionary model change as happened with the jump from the E30 to the E36, its successor will be evolutionary," he said. "This keeps customer confidence and residuals high, and allows us to perfect the basic design. I can tell you now that the E46's eventual replacement will be revolutionary."

      Five and a half years have passed between the initial design and complete car launch in April 1998. 2400 parts are completely redesigned and made 130 prototypes by hand and 2.6 millions of working hours invested in the E46. That is highest quality standards, and these require perfection to the last detail Chris Bangle and his team has done fine work.

      From any angle, the new E46 3 Series is smoother, sleeker and more rounded. In isolation, the E36 still looks good, but when you see them together, you realize just how its more chiseled shape has aged. The new headlamps with twin semi-circles of their lower edge can be called styling rather than design, but it does give the car a distinctive look and more BMW-like "face."
      If you think the exterior is merely evolutionary, the interior is the place where great improvements have been made. Ergonomically, the E36 was close to being perfect, but it had two key flaws. One was the driving position and the other was rear seat leg room . The former gave a great seat to pedals to steering wheel relationship, but the steering wheel in both left and right-hand drive cars was skewed slightly. This created a back problem for many people on long drives. These sufferers will be pleased to know that the steering wheel of the E46 is perfectly aligned.
      The longer wheelbase and better overall packaging has given rear seat passengers noticeably more legroom, and the interior feels bigger even if it is still far smaller than a 5 Series. The choice of materials is excellent, and the trim feels expensive. A single section for the dashboard cuts the chance of squeaks and rattles. The cloth trim is good, but the leather is even better. Matched to the optional burr walnut veneer, it makes for a very classy interior.
      The wider center console is part of the visual flow that leads you into the car.

      The new 3 Series looks good. It has a fuller, broad shouldered stance, even on standard wheels and tires. Its interior room is now no longer cramped and it has built on the chassis strengths of the outgoing model. With leather and wood, it also has a classier interior than any of its direct competitors.



      E46 Designers

      E46 Sedan - Chris Bangle (*1956)
      Chris Bangle, who as head of design for BMW became one of the most famous - and reviled - auto designers in automotive history, has abruptly resigned after 16 years with the German automaker
      He became the first American chief of design of BMW on October 1, 1992. His styling themes have generated intense controversy among automotive designers, and have had a polarizing effect with respect to their visual cues.
      Bangle's designs are incorporated in the entire BMW lineup, including the 1, 3, 5, 6 and 7 series as well as the X3, X5, and X6 the newest design SUVs, and the concept car Gina.
      Also, contrary to common belief, Bangle did not design the E46 3 series or the E46 M3 - he over saw some of the design work but did not design the car or have the final say.
      On February 3, 2009, Bangle announced that he was to quit both his position at BMW and the auto industry altogether, to focus on his own design-related endeavours. He was replaced by Adrian van Hooydonk.

      E46 Coupe, touring - Erik Goplen (*1966)
      Erik Goplen from BMW DesignWorks USA is the man responsible for the design team that created the E46.
      Goplen started his designer's career in January of 1987 at Superior Industries International - one of the world's largest suppliers of cast and forged aluminum wheels for cars (also for BMW), moving already in June of 1987 to then owned by Charles Pelly Designworks; he was with BMW in Munich 1996-2008; Goplen works as a Creative Director at Designworks, Newbury Park, California
      Goplen designed the BMW E46 3 series, contributed to the design of the Z4 (2002-2004) and designed the second generation of the BMW F25 X3 (2011)
      in one of his interviews he said: "We have a design heritage to maintain"

      E46 compact - Peter Gabath
      Peter Gabath German designer living in Jesenwang and working for BMW in Munich, co-designed E92/E93 3-series coupe & cabrio, co-designed BMW E65 7 series; his designs done jointly with Markefka for front and rear bumpers were patented by BMW, some of his designs received a separate patents, in total he received 29 patents. Gabath led the teams designing the E90 3-series and the Z-4 E89

      E46 M3 Ulf Weidhase (*1953)
      German designer, since 1988 with BMW, from 1999 Head of Design BMW M and BMW Individual in Munich, he worked on BMW E34 M5 (1989), BMW E36 M3(1992), BMW E46 M3, BMW Z3 M-Roadster, BMW Z3 M-Coupe, BMW E39 M5, BMW E60 M5 (2004), his thinking is conservative and subtle, his decisions over the years were impressive: M-cars follow the idea, that power should be felt not shown



      Last edited by Bones_Jones; 04-16-2012 at 07:07 PM.

    23. Member FiveAinOne's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 07:05 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      See, I think that's a very, very BAD looking car.
      FTFY

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      04-16-2012 07:07 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      The "Bangle butt" on the 7-series was the origin of Chris Bangle hate. Add iDrive into the picture, and it just pissed TCLers and auto journalists off with BMW in general. The Z4 and flame surfacing came well after that initial wave.
      The Z4 came out in 2003, the year after the 7-series.
      "Motorcycles - the cigarettes of transportation." Seth Meyers

    25. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      04-16-2012 07:28 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by epbrown View Post
      The Z4 came out in 2003, the year after the 7-series.
      Calendar 2003. 7 was calendar 2001. 2 years is forever in Internet / auto journo time.

    26. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      04-16-2012 07:32 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Calendar 2003. 7 was calendar 2001. 2 years is forever in Internet / auto journo time.
      Or I remembered wrong. Oh well. My point was the "bangle butt" term and hate had set in, which framed our initial Z4 reaction.

    27. 04-16-2012 07:37 PM #62
      Ha! so thats why I was never offended by the 3 series......
      How about the X5? I was never offended by that one either...

    28. Senior Member A.Wilder's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 07:46 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post


      You can keep your flames....
      That always looked like this:


      imo.
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      If Jesus is your pilot, then irony is your vehicle.

    29. Banned roadtripper's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 08:25 PM #64
      oh holy f-ing awesome.

      come to think of it, that picture of bangle has a little chester in there too.

      "enjoy your creation."

    30. Member Jordan 191's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 09:02 PM #65
      People need to realize it doesn't if you like those cars or not, he does get the last laugh and has been completely vindicated.

    31. Member 2000JettaGLXVR6's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 09:15 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by JLJetta View Post
      The problem was not the 'heavy creases and curves' at all. The problem was every single panel had no continuity with another panel. It was as if a totally different group designed each panel seperately and not in communication. I've seen Fisher Price toys put together more cohesively.



      I mean, WTF? It is a desperate cry of impotence. Its like he wanted to do something different, but had zero ability to do something meaningful.
      You have no eye. It makes all the sense in the world. I've outlined the lines for you, they all connect.

      Last edited by 2000JettaGLXVR6; 04-16-2012 at 09:17 PM.

    32. Member S0RRY's Avatar
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      04-16-2012 09:22 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by flat6guy View Post
      Bangle's designs are horrible; it doesn't matter if 98% of the world loves it, it's still horrible.

      Justin Beiber is popular; Is it good music? No.

      /thread
      uhhhhhh guys, did you not see the thread is over? Flat6guy ended it with his impeccable taste and his inability to grasp the concept of subjectivity.

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      04-16-2012 09:22 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Jrod511 View Post
      Bangle did not do the E39.
      Correct, it was Joji Nagashima, who designed the E36, E90, E39 and Z3 roadster.


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      04-16-2012 10:40 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by 2000JettaGLXVR6 View Post
      You have no eye. It makes all the sense in the world. I've outlined the lines for you, they all connect.

      That looks like a bunch of lines that run alongside and intersect with each other with no rhyme or reason
      "When you need to get somewhere quickly, I'd rather get there the fastest I can, looking the best I can"-Rutledge Wood

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      04-16-2012 11:18 PM #70
      I agree with whoever said it earlier, with Bangle's designs some win and some lose. I don't even think the ones that lose are entirely bad designs, they just contain certain elements that are undesirable.

      The best thing I have learned about BMW design in my own perception is that it may not always click with everyone or myself initially, but as time goes on it's design ages well and I appreciate their appearance the more I look at them.

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