the MK5 R32 camshaft thread

[sixteen10]

Ok so following on from a number of threads , I wanted to try group as much information as possible in one central location. I searched cams and schrick as keywords but the threads that have been displayed are mostly hearsay thus far :

1. I have searched a number of cam threads as I am interested in heading that way , the majority of these threads all have "butt dyno" impressions and good impressions but no validated gains in terms of gains from this mod

2. There have been differing opinions on which cams work best on the 3.2
Dubnick went with 272's all round
Ryan E has gone 268/264

What is the theory behind staggered duration cams? I have only dealt with 8v's in terms of performance cams and the consensus there is the more air you can flow in and out of your car quickly , the more power you will make , therefore long duration and high lift were key on that engine.

What would the "theoretical" benefit be of the different setups ; 268/264 , 268/268 , 272/264 , 272/272 etc?

And lastly , considering the mk5 R32 engine differs to the mk4 R32 , has anyone actually tested these different setups.

[BlixaBargeld]

But it doesn't differ much. Aka the mk 4 results are as reliable as any dyno can be

[BlixaBargeld]

Btw don't think 268 exhaust cam exists just 264/268/272 intake and 260/264/272 exhaust

[Fast1one]

No one has really dug into it and tried to compare the differences to see if they were really significant. Did you see this thread? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-MKV-R32-motor.............

The most obvious difference was the compression ratio, higher in the MKIV. This was likely achieved with different pistons. According to that thread, other major parts such as the heads and intake manifold dont carry over. It may be marginal improvements or significant changes.

Considering they were rated for the same power, the differences in head and intake manifold could be to offset the drop in compression ratio, though 11.3 vs. 10.85 is not a huge difference, but still significant.

To the all motor gurus, since bore and stroke remained unchanged, would it be safe to assume that if the piston geometry is indeed different, would the jump from 10.85:1 to 11.3:1 compression ratio be a noticeable improvement? Assuming the engine was tuned for the new compression and there was adequate fuel, etc etc.

[sixteen10]

Well this is the whole concept , no one can clearly confirm that mk4 and mk5 cams are interchangeable.

Some suggest they are the same , however , others such as myself have heard otherwise. We never got mk4 R32's over here so I can't even consult my technician , however maybe someone with ETKA can confirm part numbers for the camshafts on the mk4 and the mk5?

I was hoping this thread could serve as a basis for others who may want further info on cams.
I spoke with REVO UK who sent me the stage 2 tune for my car and the tech there suggested the 268/264 combo as he said the 272 all round setup would be too aggressive as a daily drive.

I just wanna clarify this as the cost of cams and my current exchange rate makes it a very pricey mod

[BlixaBargeld]

Mk4 and Mk5 exhaust cams are different starting with production year 2006 of the Mk5.
While they are now different the difference has not enough impact that the whole groundwork that power dubs etc did won't apply anymore.
A) do the testing yourself
B) take advice from Jeff
C) just look through the MK4 forum
264/260 was preferred only because these "TT" cams were half of the $ of the Schrick
272/272 made no difference to 268/264 and some were considering changing back to 268/264 just for the sound
For NA 268/264 seems to be the cams to get ( but there is no bad option )

[sixteen10]

Mk4 and Mk5 exhaust cams are different starting with production year 2006 of the Mk5.
While they are now different the difference has not enough impact that the whole groundwork that power dubs etc did won't apply anymore.
A) do the testing yourself
B) take advice from Jeff
C) just look through the MK4 forum
264/260 was preferred only because these "TT" cams were half of the $ of the Schrick
272/272 made no difference to 268/264 and some were considering changing back to 268/264 just for the sound
For NA 268/264 seems to be the cams to get ( but there is no bad option )

Thanks , that helps.

I can't afford to test more than one set of cams so I need to decide , however I will have before and after dyno's done with the cams I choose. 268/264 seem like a good choice. I did pm dubnick too regarding his opinion after moving to 272's

[Fast1one]

A good read on comrpression ratio: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ech/index.html

If VW did drop the compression ratio for the MKV, based on that article it looks as though they may have done it due to poor fuel quality and heat. Intake temperatures play a big role on detonation with a high compression motor, as well as fuel octane. As you all know, the R runs hot and west coast U.S. fuel is crap

Based on that difference alone, I would expect the MKIV engine would make at least 2 percent more power at the crank than the MKV. That's at least 5HP more at the crank. Other differences could also affect the power output. What we need is an MKIV guy and a MANUAL MKV guy with identical mods to see if all these differences between the engines really do make a difference.

Another note about higher duration cams: they reduce the dynamic compression ratio. Which means you need to run a higher static compression than before depending on how wild the cams are. This may be part of the reason why 268/264 made the same power as 272/272 on the MKIV platform, in addition to the restrictive intake manifold. Just a thought.

[sixteen10]

Thanks Fast1one

At the last dyno day a stock import mk4 R32 made less power and torque at all 4 wheels than a stock mk5 DSG R32. I expected it to be the opposite , I don't know if it differs over there as your MK4 R32's were stronger than the Euro ones.

I got some good feedbac from Nick too :

No lumpy idle at all. I've only had the 272s.
268/264 better for NA
272/272 better for FI
MKV has different cams than MKIV for sure. I think the intake cam is different.
I got them from denon performance in Canada.
Powerdubs has done all the cam work and is the reason the 272s were made in the first place.
he went back to 268/264 from the 272s.

[BlixaBargeld]

Stronger us vs euro mk 4 .... Euro had an ECU update that when not applied is an explanation and the throttle body or so was bigger in the us ....

[sixteen10]

Stronger us vs euro mk 4 .... Euro had an ECU update that when not applied is an explanation and the throttle body or so was bigger in the us ....

yup larger TB and MAF iirc?

[BlixaBargeld]

Can't remember read it r32oc.com ( Brits who changed to us parts)

[milk4brains]

Following this one

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[sixteen10]

Can't remember read it r32oc.com ( Brits who changed to us parts)

Lol me too

thread :

http://www.r32oc.com/performance-tec...af-airbox.html

[sixteen10]

What about Schimmel Performance cams , anyone got any experience?

[Slave IV]

Thanks..good thread topic

I'm still amazed at how little info there is across the range of aftermarket parts available for this car compared to how many people who have bought aftermarket parts. It seems like most MkV R32 owners buy things based on hearsay (or less) or they just don't share the info they have compared to any other platform I've dealt with.

Oh well, good thing there is not really much worth doing to the car to begin with...

[Mr_Peach]

...or they just don't share the info they have compared to any other platform I've dealt with.

I do, in fact, know it *all*.

I just don't work and play well with others. It was a trait first identified to my parents at my preschool. They tried and tried to socialize me.

Finally, they gave up and steered me to a career field where a lack of social skills is the accepted norm.

I am an engineer. And I'm taking my polyhedron and going home.

[JRutter]

Since a bunch of us are getting Schrick cams through Ron at Denon Performance, I thought that I would try to get some info together.

Archived thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...!!!-Here-it-is!!!!

Why aftermarket cams?:

[Mr_Peach]

OK, so John actually knows it all. I just stand near him from time to time.

Thanks for sharing.

[foreverblue]

I just learn a little more..

[JRutter]

All I can take credit for is finding these, lol!

[Fast1one]

Great videos! I already learned this at one point, but it was a nice refresher.

[sixteen10]

nice finds

[JRutter]

Here is the download section of the Schrick web site. It has some additional info, and it is reassuring to see that they do not specify any different valve springs for the 268/264 set.

http://www.avl-schrick.com/?control_id=144

Also: Note that they seem to have a new variable length intake for the VR6 Do want!

[BlixaBargeld]

Isn't this an old manifold

[JRutter]

Isn't this an old manifold

I think you're right. [edit: I know you're right, Ron checked for me.]

[TornadoR32]

following

[JRutter]

[Ryan E.]

congrats John

[OUG13]

I'll have mine in two days

[red2.slo]

Hoping to have mine by the end of the week or early next. Ron told me he'd be shipping them out this week!

[SFCL]

O4 r32

E#022109101

iNTAKE

[SFCL]

04 R32:

Exhaust cam part#022109101C

Intake cam part#022109102A


08 R32:

Exhaust cam part#022109101E

Intake cam part#022109102A

Intake cams are the same part#

[foreverblue]

It's like a Christmas Morning.... Just got my Cams...
Now just need to get other parts and find a place to install this baby..
I think I am going to do Dyno before and after the install to see the difference

[Kg810]

It's like a Christmas Morning.... Just got my Cams...
Now just need to get other parts and find a place to install this baby..
I think I am going to do Dyno before and after the install to see the difference

Congrats

I would definitely like to see the before and after dyno