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    Thread: APR Presents The BFGoodrich MaxR! -- Build Thread --

    1. 06-21-2012 04:25 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by GTI2Slow View Post
      Arin, Just put him on your ignore list (I did long ago, I regret nothing.) and continue on with the awesome build thread!
      What kind of post was that exactly BUDDY ??

      Are you trying to start something or are you just being a fanboy ?

      If you HAD put me on your ignore list you wouldn't be commenting on my posts
      right now.

      So go troll somewhere else...

      OK ??

    2. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      06-21-2012 04:32 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfRS View Post
      Schrick is not an OEM replica company. They make PERFORMANCE parts, not "better quality OEM replacements"
      Schrick IS an OEM parts supplier and that's their primary business. The aftermarket division could be gone tomorrow if they wanted, but they've kept it for the enthusiasts and motorsport teams.

      It doesn't work this way Arin
      Yes, it does work this way. You are still hanging onto the fact that the cams did not seem to show any increase in power for us, on our applications.

      That happens all the time!

      Sometimes installing an intake on a stock car will show a 0 HP gain but when chipped it will show massive gains.

      Sometimes installing an exhaust on a stock car will show a massive gain but when the turbo or supercharger is maxed out the gains are actually pretty minimal.

      Schrick is an OEM parts supplier and a supplier of motorsport parts. They also have an aftermarket catalog of parts available in limited quantities. Most of their aftermarket parts are for race applications. Many of the offerings are cam grinds race teams and OEMs requested to be made knowing schrick would carry the parts in their catalog (unless specified otherwise). Some are rofiles they've made on their own. These are all available to those who would like to use a different profile for whatever they may be doing, and simply put, schrick does not advertise any results anywhere for their FSI cams.

      It's possible the cams make power on stock software.
      It's possible the cams don't show a difference once everything is maxed out with our stage 3 and 4 turbocharger systems.
      It's possible the cams really shine at low boost.
      It's possible the cams really shine at super free flowing high boost applications.

      All of those things are possible and many more possibilities exist. That said I don't see Schrick making any claims, anywhere. They sell more aggressive profile cams. They don't push the product. It's available for those who want to use it. It's expensive because it's expensive to make.

      The one thing that remains true is we did not see a benefit using them with our setup. We DID make one beneficial change to one set, but it's in an area you may not be familiar and I'm not discussing what or where.

      The FSI is more than half a decade old at this point and there isn't a single scientific, back to back, and back again, test showing cams making a difference. Imagine that!

      I'm not discussing this topic further.
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    3. 06-21-2012 04:46 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Schrick IS an OEM parts supplier and that's their primary business. The aftermarket division could be gone tomorrow if they wanted, but they've kept it for the enthusiasts and motorsport teams.
      Schrick may provide OEM parts but we are talking about their performance parts not the ones meant for factory use.When i said Schrick doesn't make "OEM replicas" i meant their cams are not OEM replacement units that have the same characteristics and would show no gain.What that means is you install them to make more power, not replace a bad or worn OEM camshaft.Btw, SACHS is also an OEM manufacturer, but their racing kits are not for factory use. See the similarities here ?


      Yes, it does work this way. You are still hanging onto the fact that the cams did not seem to show any increase in power for us, on our applications.

      That happens all the time!

      Sometimes installing an intake on a stock car will show a 0 HP gain but when chipped it will show massive gains.

      Sometimes installing an exhaust on a stock car will show a massive gain but when the turbo or supercharger is maxed out the gains are actually pretty minimal.

      Schrick is an OEM parts supplier and a supplier of motorsport parts. They also have an aftermarket catalog of parts available in limited quantities. Most of their aftermarket parts are for race applications. Many of the offerings are cam grinds race teams and OEMs requested to be made knowing schrick would carry the parts in their catalog (unless specified otherwise). Some are rofiles they've made on their own. These are all available to those who would like to use a different profile for whatever they may be doing, and simply put, schrick does not advertise any results anywhere for their FSI cams.

      It's possible the cams make power on stock software.
      It's possible the cams don't show a difference once everything is maxed out with our stage 3 and 4 turbocharger systems.
      It's possible the cams really shine at low boost.
      It's possible the cams really shine at super free flowing high boost applications.

      All of those things are possible and many more possibilities exist. That said I don't see Schrick making any claims, anywhere. They sell more aggressive profile cams. They don't push the product. It's available for those who want to use it. It's expensive because it's expensive to make.

      The one thing that remains true is we did not see a benefit using them with our setup. We DID make one beneficial change to one set, but it's in an area you may not be familiar and I'm not discussing what or where.

      The FSI is more than half a decade old at this point and there isn't a single scientific, back to back, and back again, test showing cams making a difference. Imagine that!

      I'm not discussing this topic further.
      I'm gonna respond to all of the above with ONE single answer...
      You once mentioned you saw like (what was it again) 30 whp ? 50 whp gain from porting the head...
      Where is the scientific proof of that ?
      Haven't seen that anywhere either, and yet you charge a pretty penny for it.
      Imagine THAT !!

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      06-21-2012 05:33 PM #79
      Whole lee schit.

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      06-21-2012 05:39 PM #80
      In order for the larger Garrett GTX2867R Turbocharger to mate to the factory head found on the Golf R’s 2.0T FSI Engine, APR was tasked with creating an exhaust manifold capable of supporting excessively high exhaust gas temperatures for long periods of time.

      Enter the APR Inconel Manifold.



      APR’s exhaust manifolds are known around the world for several highly sought after properties not completely shared by any other design in the market.


      Runner Lengths
      Many manifold manufacturers are after 1 thing: Equal exhaust runner lengths. The theory behind equal runner lengths is the exhaust pulses from each cylinder will arrive at the collection point, one after each other, without the pulses colliding. This will aid in power deliver and turbocharger spool compared to a traditional log style manifold or one w/o equal length runners. Typical stainless steel equal runner length manifolds have long twists and turns in order to achieve this, but they do so at the cost of strength and design quality. It’s a low-tech old school method designed to look pretty and get the pulses in line. The thin tubing with multiple weld points has a potential to crack over time, and the thin tubing walls create an undesirably loud exhaust that’s simply unacceptable for most daily driven applications.

      Creating one of these manifolds is quick for any skilled exhaust shop. On low volume products, it’s often an attractive product due to the time and costs involved in creating one, but given each exhaust is only as good as the person welding, and their mood during that days work, problems can arise and may only rear their head when it’s too late.

      The APR Exhaust manifold is able to achieve the same equal runner length properties as the other low-tech methods by varying the lengths of each runner. The runner lengths will be dictated some degree due to packaging constraints, but APR’s 3D modeling and computational fluid dynamics software allows our engineers to adjust the length of each runner, adding length where necessary, to ensure all exhaust pulses arrive one after each other without colliding at the collection point. The Inconel material has excellent heat retention characteristics that work to enhance turbo response by keeping exhaust velocities high. The order the pulses arrive differ from that of an equal length runner, but the outcome is enhanced by the properties of the material used.

      Strength
      APR’s exhaust manifold is made from Inconel 625, which is a very high temperature nickel-chromium-based superalloy designed to withstand extreme temperature changes without expanding, contracting, melting or cracking under stress. This material is very expensive material and is difficult to machine and at the inception of our first 1.8T turbocharger system, was upwards of $10,000 for a single Inconel manifold from VW Sport.

      APR has gone a step further by using an investment cast design rather than a sand-casting process. This expensive process results in smoother finishes and very tight tolerances to ensure each manifold fits properly. Each manifold is cast in the USA and machined in house using one of APR’s CNC machines to finalize all mounting surfaces. Quality control is very important given the labor and headaches one would experience with a failed manifold, so each manifold is inspected before and after machining.

      Never worrying about a cracked exhaust manifold is something an APR customer confidently feels every time they drive their vehicle.

      So to recap, here are some of the benefits of the APR Manifold Design:

      - Inconel 625 Material
      - High EGT Resistance
      - Low Growth/Contraction Under Heat
      - Guaranteed Not To Crack (Lifetime Warranty)
      - Exhaust Pulse Tuned Runner Lengths
      - Excellent Heat Retention Properties for High Exhaust Velocity
      - Low Noise Output
      - High Tolerances Investment Casting
      - High Precision CNC Machining In House
      - Repeatable Manufacturing Methods
      - Strict Quality Control
      - Made in the USA

      Next up we’ll look into a little more of the plumbing involved to route all air into and out of the turbocharger.
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      06-21-2012 11:20 PM #81
      Pretty awesome build thread!

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      06-22-2012 01:07 PM #82
      Lovin this thread. Big thanks to Arin for doing this. Quick question as well. Would that coilover setup work in a Jetta MKV? I assume not because they are not listed as a part for the jetta's on the goapr.com site. I like those coils and would love to be able to put them on my car.

    8. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      06-22-2012 02:18 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by superv97 View Post
      Lovin this thread. Big thanks to Arin for doing this. Quick question as well. Would that coilover setup work in a Jetta MKV? I assume not because they are not listed as a part for the jetta's on the goapr.com site. I like those coils and would love to be able to put them on my car.
      There are several different part numbers for different vehicles out there. We've tested one of the systems (not sure which) on a GLI and it needed some adjustments from what I remember. VWR said they are working on it back in the UK, but from what I gather, it's not a quick process.

      The MK5 GTI system is probably the closest match to the MK5 GLI. It will fit, but I do not know if the valving and spring rates are perfectly matched to the GLI. It's probably very close and for most people would probably be fine.
      GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
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      06-22-2012 02:24 PM #84
      biggest question is what weekend can I come down and drive this thing.

      Looking good guys keep up the great work.

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      06-22-2012 09:33 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      There are several different part numbers for different vehicles out there. We've tested one of the systems (not sure which) on a GLI and it needed some adjustments from what I remember. VWR said they are working on it back in the UK, but from what I gather, it's not a quick process.

      The MK5 GTI system is probably the closest match to the MK5 GLI. It will fit, but I do not know if the valving and spring rates are perfectly matched to the GLI. It's probably very close and for most people would probably be fine.
      Thanks Arin. Lots of great info in this thread. I look forward to the end result.....it will be pretty sweet.

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      06-25-2012 09:58 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by jamie@vwvortex View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

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      06-26-2012 10:18 AM #87
      Any update Arin?

      Have a good one!

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      07-06-2012 01:01 PM #88
      It's not uncommon to see "custom" turbocharger systems on the market featuring generic off the shelf silicon hoses. To engineer truly custom silicon hoses, as is the case with an APR Stage III Turbocharger System, months of planning and engineer time must take place.

      APR's Engineers use a FARO Arm to plot points of contact within the engine bay and mounting surfaces, such as the turbocharger, to help aid in design and fitment through CAD Software. This gives the engineers a work space for designing parts without worry of contacting components in the engine bay.

      FARO Arm Mapping a Turbo


      Once the engine bay and attached items are mapped, the engineers are able to begin designing parts on the computer. We currently use the latest version of Pro Engineer, which is now called creo. It's an extremely powerful software suite that gives our Engineers the flexibility they need to design and test many components in a simulated environment, long before they ever make a physical part.

      Here's a fully designed Stage 3 Turbocharger System, long before any physical parts are produced. The images can be rotated, split apart, moved around, altered, etc.





      Once the Engineers complete a design, it's sent to our Stereolithography (SLA) 3D printer to print out a physical part we can test in the engine bay. It's necessary to print out the design and test because some items in the engine bay are not static. Under load the engine will rock back and forth, so clearance must be confirmed before proceeding. Printing 3D parts also allows us to test parts on other makes and models around the world. Our UK facility and our partners in Australia test Right Hand Drive vehicles we do not see in the US.




      The printer uses a laser to harden a liquid material into a useable part. In the example below, we are using the SLA to create a compressor housing for use on a TTRS Stage III Turbocharger System. The process is identical when creating silicon hoses for the Golf R Stage III Turbocharger System:

      The Laser burns in the design, one tiny layer at a time:


      When finished, the part is removed and sent over to an ultra violet chamber which hardens the piece:


      The finished piece looks like this and can be fitted and tested in the car:


      The same process takes place for nearly every component we design on the Stage III Turbocharger System. The parts are then installed and fitment is verified. Once engineering gives the green light, a cast mandrel is created and then machined in house to act as the mould for making the production parts. This is an extremely expensive process, which is why many kits use off the shelf, generic hosing, however quality and features cannot be matched using other methods. It's Performance Without Compromise.

      APR manufactures all hoses in North America to ensure high levels of quality and workmanship. The hoses are then fit with custom hose barbs and spigots for all of the necessary OEM equipment to connect and many of these parts are designed and created in house on our Mazak CNC lathe. The lathe feeds bar stock from one end to automate the production process and runs round the clock with two shifts of operators operating almost 24/7.




      Each hose is a wire reinforced, high quality, multi-pli silicon design. The hoses are very stiff so under boost and vacuum the hoses will not swell or collapse and restrict airflow like traditional hoses. If you're at Waterfest or H2O this year, stop by our booth and squeeze one of the hoses on display!



      All of the correct OEM spigots and outlets for boost / vacuum reference lines are included in the OEM locations. OEM PCV and EVAP connections are properly in place with OEM style one-time-use crimp clamps holding securing each piece.

      One often overlooked feature of the APR Stage III Silicon Hose Design is the use of stepped mounting surfaces for smooth transition from one piece to the other. Traditional hoses simply sit on top of the other mounting surfaces, which can disrupt airflow. The APR hose design is stepped so they mount flush, offering a truly custom and ideal design.



      Up next we'll discuss a few more cast parts in the induction system!
      Last edited by Arin@APR; 07-06-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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      07-06-2012 09:27 PM #89
      Great!

    15. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      07-18-2012 05:03 PM #90
      The Golf R APR Stage 3 and 4 Turbocharger System features a massive intake system to ensure the engine can breathe properly with the larger GTX turbocharger. The intake system starts with an APR Carbonio Intake System, which is the same system found on the 2.0 TSI MK6 GTI GTI. Carbon Fiber is a lightweight material that not only looks good but serves many different functions. It can be molded into any shape one can imagine, It's strong and it also acts as an excellent heat shield material as it's resistant to heat. The high flow intake filter sits inside of a carbon fiber chamber, which is attached to the front of the car and blocks hot engine bay heat. Only cold, dense air from the leading edge of the hood enters the intake and is fed throughout the turbocharger.

      Carbon Fiber Housing:


      Intake Air Filter:


      Intake air is fed through the intake filter, through silicon hoses and into the Mass Airflow Sensor Housing. Mass airflow is metered by the MAF sensor and is used to calculate Load within the ECU. This is one of the most critical parts of the entire engine management system as the ECU is load based and accurate measurement of mass airflow is required to accurately calculate load. Accurate metering is necessary for smooth and reliable operation, and this is achieved with APR's design.

      MAF Housing


      The MAF housing is a cast unit that's machined in house at APR to create extremely accurate dimensions, which are then properly calibrated into the ECU. Without making MAF diameter changes within the ECU, the ECU will simply believe the MAF diameter is smaller, which will alter load calculations negatively, and result in drivability issues. A honeycomb flow straightener, an often overlooked item, is placed inside of the MAF housing to straighten the airflow for more accurate readings.

      MAF Housing Internal Surface and Honeycomb Flow Straightener


      From here the air enters the turbo, is compressed, and then it exits the turbo on its way throughout the cast APR Turbo outlet pipe. The OEM part is sometimes referred to as the "pancake pipe", but the APR unit is smooth in design the whole way through and matches the diameter of the turbo outlet to ensure airflow is not restricted. The OEM part is not modified in any way. It's simply removed and replaced with the stronger and larger APR unit.

      APR Turbo Outlet Pipe



      Airflow continues through the pipe on its way to the massive APR Front Mount Intercooler System. This massive unit made its way to the market in 2007 after Volkswagen of America required a larger intercooler system for their Stage 3 R GTI Concept Vehicle. The result was a system that trumped the OEM GTI, S3 and Golf R intercooler designs with far more cooling capabilities, larger inlets and outlets (57 mm vs 48 mm) and lesser pressure drop compared to the stock unit. This means not only will boost build faster with less turbo lag, but the power will stay consistent run after run.

      VWoA R GTI


      To ensure no degradation to engine cooling, the APR Intercooler utilizes the OEM location. Volkswagen's Engineers are tasked with ensuring airflow over the radiator and intercooler is ideal for each and every vehicle in their fleet. A large percentage of these vehicles are compatible with the APR Intercooler System and because the intercooler is in the OEM location, critical airflow characteristics are fully utilized, and fitment's not an issue.

      APR Intercooler System


      Many have tried to copy the APR Intercooler design over the years but none has compared in terms of fitment, cooling effectiveness, core quality and design, end tank quality and design, weight, hose and coupler design, instruction manuals and support from APR. This intercooler system is a prefect solution for a stock engine all the way to well over 600 HP and with customer dyno, lap times, quarter mile times and testimonials to back it up, you can have the confidence to know you've made the right choice.
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      07-20-2012 02:21 AM #91
      Great! So I could add a 2.0 TSI Carbonio Stage I and II to my APR Stage III Setup? I would just need to relocate the MAF harness sensor, right?

    17. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      07-20-2012 10:32 AM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by BETOGLI View Post
      Great! So I could add a 2.0 TSI Carbonio Stage I and II to my APR Stage III Setup? I would just need to relocate the MAF harness sensor, right?
      No, only the carbonio stage 1 TSI intake.
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      07-20-2012 01:47 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      No, only the carbonio stage 1 TSI intake.
      You´re right man! How dumb I am... Indeed I would need to keep the MAF Housing! LOL

      Is it a better option to swap to a Carbonio Stage I TSI Intake? or is it almost the same (performance wise) if I keep the filter that came with my Stage III Kit?

      Thanks!

    19. Member YoungMedic's Avatar
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      07-21-2012 09:50 PM #94
      I just remembered why I never come into this forum anymore...
      '12 Golf R 2D Rising Blue #1026
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    20. 07-22-2012 03:53 PM #95
      how much for a stage 4 build? Please don't tellme emailme because don't asnwer, just want know how much.

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      07-22-2012 06:16 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfRS View Post
      In any case all of my posts in this thread will be deleted by me soon after.

      Arguing is one thing, but messing up an advertisement is another, and this
      has gone too far.

      Everyone is free to chose whatever route the want to follow.

      I honestly don't give one.
      Delete yours, I'll delete my posts.

      It wasn't me who chewed up my HPFP and cam. I purchased this car 3 months ago and have only put 2000 miles on it. Before this car I never owned this engine in any of my cars.

      You're simply an idiot. You're skilled at not actually answering anything or posting any data. I explicitly asked you a question and you then asked me to answer my own question I posed to you :lol:

      Posts are being deleted now.
      Last edited by MKV727; 07-22-2012 at 06:21 PM.

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      07-22-2012 06:25 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfRS View Post
      I'm an idiot ??

      So where is all the "you don't have data" BS gone now huh bud ?

      Did i make you eat your words ?

      You make me laugh....Continue living your pathetic little life listening to others telling you
      what you should and shouldn't do.This is how some people survive, and you are just one of them.
      Ugh... You still don't have data

      You just do the same thing over and over and I'm over it.

      I don't need the last word anymore, forget it. You're impossible.

    23. 07-22-2012 06:27 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by MKV727 View Post
      Ugh... You still don't have data

      You just do the same thing over and over and I'm over it.

      I don't need the last word anymore, forget it. You're impossible.
      You still will NEVER know if cams make power....

      How crap is that....LOL.

      Just listen to APR. They don't want your money...they just want YOUR LOVE...

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      07-23-2012 12:11 PM #99
      Has anyone installed a Mishimoto radiator with the APR Intercooler? and if so, were there any fitment or install problems. I have a 2006 MKV GLI 6-speed Stg 2+. I'm ordering the APR Intercooler this Wednesday and the OEM radiator works fine but i would like to upgrade it if possible. Any info on this topic would be greatly appreciated thank you. -Ben from Oregon

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      07-30-2012 05:46 PM #100
      Any information about the low pressure fueling system ever get released? Or an update on the flap delete hardware?

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