Yes...another Port & Polish, Gasket Matching, Extrude Hone, Header thread lets discuss

[Cspence]

I'm glad you made it this far but don't fire off any comments about the damn search button . Anyways, within the next year or so, I am without a doubt going to go force fed one way or another. Recently I've been leaning heavily towards a SC setup (Or rotrex if that ever materializes) not because I'm against turbos (actually quite the opposite), but I've been thinking more rationally like the old man I'm turning into . Anyways, this said I've been thinking about "Cheap" mods I can do now that will only compliment the final setup down the road, the two that have made it to the top of my list are cams and exhaust manifold porting. Being that I'm not the type of person that has to squeeze every last drop of power out of a car, I'll probably go with TT 264/260 cams instead of the Schricks since they are half the price, offer moderate gains over stock- (Not much less then the Schricks), and are half the price.

If your still with me at this point , the main purpose of this thread is around porting the stock exhaust manifolds. Like with the cams, I'm sure that a good set of headers like the Supersprints are the way to go if you want every last bit of power, but being that they are expensive I was searching for alternative options. I've looked at the dubpower headers, which look VERY nice for the price , but there is not much documented on any realistic gains other than lookin purdy. This all said, in my searches, I remember reading some comments about the when ported/gasket matched properly, the stock manifolds actually yield good gains, better in some cases than aftermarket headers (Since some headers don’t align all that well to the ports on the head) and also smooth out the rasp since that is primarily generated from the “Step” from the ports on the head to the manifolds.... With some searching on the forums, I was able to score a set of stock manifolds at a fair price, so here I am trying to learn some stuff, figure out what to do, and see if this is really the best route to go (opposed to just forking out more for headers).

After reading through another Porting thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...highlight=port) I learned of extrude honing, which although pricey, is a neat technology that I’m seriously considering. Like any natural DIY’er, I’ve been trying to think of ways to do this without forking over all that cash, but I can’t seem to think of any comparable alternatives.(Trying to sand blast the interior of the manifold, using a small diameter flexible ball hone, etc) So, my first question is, does anyone have experience with extrude honing? I’m curious to know if the investment is worth it and what type of gains I could expect. I assume there is probably a lot of inconsistancies left in our manifolds from the casting process, so smoothing everything out internally (And in the same direction of the exhaust flow) should only yield positive results. At nearly $800 (If I did the stage II package where they hand blend/port/gasket match prior to the extrude hone process) this is not a cheap investment and one that I want to think through and seek opinions. (http://www.gethoned.com/parts.php?ge...how=automotive)

This leads me to the next portion of my thought process. Being that I’ve never seen the exhaust ports on a 24v VR6 head or how well the gasket matches up (Does anyone have a picture?!) I’m not sure if porting the head would be beneficial as well. Like I noted before, I’m not the type of person that wants to squeeze out every last bit of power, so I will most likely not take things this far. Seeing some pictures of used exhaust manifolds, it’s clear that there is a significant “Step” from the head to the manifold (Seen as a black carbon ring around the manifold port) which is just begging to be blended. I guess my question is, if I gasket match the exhaust manifolds, how well can I expect the ports to line up with the head? (Like I said, I’ve never had an opportunity to see how well the gaskets match with the cylinder head ports….but I presume they are a very close. Anyone have a picture?)

I do have more questions (Primarily around the stock downpipes) but I’ll spare you guys for now . Sorry for such a long post, but if your reading this, thanks for sticking it out LOL. Please post up any pictures, info, opinions, etc that you have!

STUFF:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...highlight=port
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4052407

Stock Manifolds:


NKGNETO’s Ported Manifolds:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...CVP-L1-install


J-DUB’s Ported Manifolds:


Stock Manifolds vs Milltek’s:



Supersprint's:



DubPower Headers:
http://dubpower.co.uk/Exhaust%20manifolds.htm

[Norkoth]

I sent dubpower an email, they will ship their headers to the USA for $80.00. Not bad, even with exchanging currencies via paypal I think it will be less than $750.00 shipped to your door.

To my knowledge these haven't been dynoed before nor has anyone on vortex installed them. But, I heard a youtube clip with them that sounds pretty good.

[bolide]

In my muscle car days, extrude honing was typically the last resort due to high cost vs headers or intakes and usually only utilised to "pull the wool over" the tech inspectors heads at the strip and stay legal for the class or state inspection while still providing an edge against the competition. I never once came across proof of it exceeding the performance of aftermarket headers or intakes. Unless the price has come way down I'd pass.

I'd say port match, blend, and be done. Cost wise it's practically free if you have a compressor and die grinder...

[BOUDAH]

Eurospec offers a 268/264 regrind Cam Set for 695...thats right 100 $ less than the 264/260 set they offer as well as Techtonics 264/260 for 799.

Best bang for your bucks, get these....Last set at the bottom

http://www.eurospecsport.com/product.../camshafts.htm

[Cspence]

In my muscle car days, extrude honing was typically the last resort due to high cost vs headers or intakes and usually only utilised to "pull the wool over" the tech inspectors heads at the strip and stay legal for the class or state inspection while still providing an edge against the competition. I never once came across proof of it exceeding the performance of aftermarket headers or intakes. Unless the price has come way down I'd pass.

I'd say port match, blend, and be done. Cost wise it's practically free if you have a compressor and die grinder...

This is where I was kinda going originally until I started thinking about the extrude honing I do have a compressor....I'd just need to pick up a die grinder

At the end of the day, I guess I'm just nervous about going through all the effort one way or the other, financially and physically installing, only to have the results just okay. This would be easier to swallow if I didn't have too much money into it, but even just installing is a lot of work that I'd be mad about doing . I wish there was someone that did the extrude hone that could comment on actual gains, I never like being the first to do something I'll tell ya, if I could get even say 75% of any potential gains by just porting/gasket matching, I'd probably just do that and going about my business with $700 still in my pocket.

[PowerDubs]

Honestly, I'm not sure that I would bother either way if I were you. Headers make more power than port matching ever would..and headers weren't known to make large enough gains to justify the cost and PITA to install unless you are hunting ponies.

I would 100% do cams on ANY R, regardless of breathing preference.

Other than that, get a catback.

[Cspence]

Honestly, I'm not sure that I would bother either way if I were you. Headers make more power than port matching ever would..and headers weren't known to make large enough gains to justify the cost and PITA to install unless you are hunting ponies.

I would 100% do cams on ANY R, regardless of breathing preference.

Other than that, get a catback.

I was waiting for you to chime in but that took the wind out my sail The only glimmer of hope for this I guess is the rasp portion and the fact that the flex joint in my downpipe is just about shot. I suppose I could gasket match the spare set of manifolds I'm getting and when I need to swap in the downpipe I'm also picking up, I could do the manifolds at the same. This would at least kill two birds with one stone (Rasp-b-gone and no more worries about an exhaust leak)

I should be all set with the cat back....I have a USP testpipe with Magnaflow HFC's and the resonator / pancake pipe have been cutout....I wish the install on the cams was not so involved....I'd have them already

[PowerDubs]

Cam installs really aren't that hard. Just allow a full weekend your first time and have a backup car to get to work if you screw it up and have to try again.

[Cspence]

Cam installs really aren't that hard. Just allow a full weekend your first time and have a backup car to get to work if you screw it up and have to try again.

Well, thats good to know...I do have a DD, so that takes some of the concern away. But then again, I might have to grow a pair of balls to open up and start tinkering with this motor. I've done some major stuff in my time, but something about this car has me timid on even the easiest tasks

In your opinion, do you think gasket matching the stock manifolds will tame the rasp or am I still going on a hope and a prayer?

Eurospec offers a 268/264 regrind Cam Set for 695...thats right 100 $ less than the 264/260 set they offer as well as Techtonics 264/260 for 799.

Best bang for your bucks, get these....Last set at the bottom

http://www.eurospecsport.com/product.../camshafts.htm

I totally missed your post! Thanks for tossing that out there, definitly seems like the best bet. Those are essentially the same as the Schricks, huh....268/264 w/ the same lift

Anyone on the forum currently running these that you know of? If not, I wonder why Also wondering why the 264/260's would be $100 more...

[Cspence]

^^ I need answers! Especially on those Eurospec cams...

[blinkinbanana]

I'm gonna bring this back to life. I've been thinking about port matching my intake runners on my head.

I also noticed excessive carbon and gunk on cyl 2,4&6. Which is odd because I had one of those total clean outs done by VW less than 10k ago.

[Nicky666]

I also noticed excessive carbon and gunk on cyl 2,4&6. Which is odd because I had one of those total clean outs done by VW less than 10k ago.

Same here, real gummy carbon build up. Might try to run a catch can to see if it helps.

[BOUDAH]

I totally missed your post! Thanks for tossing that out there, definitly seems like the best bet. Those are essentially the same as the Schricks, huh....268/264 w/ the same lift

Anyone on the forum currently running these that you know of? If not, I wonder why Also wondering why the 264/260's would be $100 more...

NP, I dont think alot of people really know about these, lol. Also the TTs are billet and brand spankin new. The regrinds are jsut that, Cams that were re ground to a different duration/lift/spec, etc.

Eurospec has some quality stuff and frankly, although theya re not "SCHRICk" i feel they will still be a good alternative. Plus for what youll be doing with your R once the cams are in.... its MEH lol

Also, I took Chase (basil fawlty) for a ride in my Car with the Schrick, 272/272 HFCs and a catback and he liked the fact, it threw u back in Third. Im telling you, HFCs and Cams are the way to go. either the TT 264/260, Eurospec 268/264 or Schrick 268/264 if you wanna pay for them.
Dont waste ur time porting the manifold...

[rajuncajun37]

Interesting....recently purchased a 3.2L head with 100 miles on her. This thread will help when the time is right.

[BOUDAH]

Interesting....recently purchased a 3.2L head with 100 miles on her. This thread will help when the time is right.

Kevin,

Get the 268s, HFCs and a UM tune if u dont already have a tune. Im telling you, youll notice the difference since you drag your .:R

[rajuncajun37]

Kevin,

Get the 268s, HFCs and a UM tune if u dont already have a tune. Im telling you, youll notice the difference since you drag your .:R

268's sound sexy, I'm dig'n those new Double Springs, I'm running only the test pipe and YES....yes, the UM tune with CAMs and a 8,000 rpm redline is a must

[Cspence]

Well, I took the plunge and started working on the spare stock manifolds I bought. I sandblasted then glass bead blasted them today at work (Exterior and interior), then I made a gangster wire wheel for my drill out of a pipe cleaner to do some more work on the insides of the manifolds (I was able to jam it in there pretty far surprisingly). So far they are looking great.... I ordered up a set of gaskets so I can see how much material I can remove to get things blended in right. Then I'll probably spend some more time blasting to see if I can get the insides a little more smooth and to get rid of the surface rust that has already started before I coat in some VHT 2000 degree clear. Pics in a few...

http://www.amazon.com/VHT-SP115-Flam.../dp/B000CPJLGW

Right after blasting, crap cell phone pic:










I guess it didn't help that I rinsed them off (Then baked in the oven to dry)....probably why the rust set in so quick....o well, 20 seconds of blasting will get them looking great again before clearing

[blinkinbanana]

Keep posting pics. Really focus on gasket matching the 6 ports that meet the head.

[blinkinbanana]

...the fact that the flex joint in my downpipe is just about shot...

I just noticed mine is cracking. Wonder if VW would cover this part under the emissions warranty, which I also forget the length on that, 8 years?

If the downpipe does need to be replaced are there aftermarket options? Other than turbo.

[Cspence]

Keep posting pics. Really focus on gasket matching the 6 ports that meet the head.

Just waiting for the gaskets to arrive

[mfbmike]

Also, I took Chase (basil fawlty) for a ride in my Car with the Schrick, 272/272 HFCs and a catback and he liked the fact, it threw u back in Third. Im telling you, HFCs and Cams are the way to go. either the TT 264/260, Eurospec 268/264 or Schrick 268/264 if you wanna pay for them.
Dont waste ur time porting the manifold...

That's about as far as I plan on taking my N/A build on my mk5.

Shrick 268's with milltek headers and HFC's.

Nice to see you're enjoying them.

[jerd]

Also, I took Chase (basil fawlty) for a ride in my Car with the Schrick, 272/272 HFCs and a catback and he liked the fact, it threw u back in Third. Im telling you, HFCs and Cams are the way to go. either the TT 264/260, Eurospec 268/264 or Schrick 268/264 if you wanna pay for them.
Dont waste ur time porting the manifold...

[nkgneto]

Like Jeff from UM told me go for the 268's.

[Cspence]

Like Jeff from UM told me go for the 268's.

Eh, I might be going with the TT's... Obviously the Schricks are the best, but for twice the price I'm not sure the small gains over the TT's warrant the price of entry (For me at least ), especially since I'm planning for boost shortly down the road. The Eurospecs seem like a great alternative since they are the same specs as the Schricks at TT pricing, but I've read too many horror stories the past few days about Eurospec as I've researched them. The fact that they are regrinds and not solid billet pieces also concerns me....

[BOUDAH]

HPAs Cams for example are regrinds. Why is that a concern to everyone, Quality?

[blinkinbanana]

To me re-grind means the was something wrong in the first place. For instance, I snowboard and when I get my base ground it's normally due to large scratches and imperfections. I would have thought more about Paul's 272 regrinds but I was afraid of the mentioned sound change with matched cams and the similar power to the scrhicks. I have no plans for turbo, so I spent $300 less and got TTs.

[BOUDAH]

To me re-grind means the was something wrong in the first place. For instance, I snowboard and when I get my base ground it's normally due to large scratches and imperfections. I would have thought more about Paul's 272 regrinds but I was afraid of the mentioned sound change with matched cams and the similar power to the scrhicks. I have no plans for turbo, so I spent $300 less and got TTs.

There is nothing wrong with Techtonics Cams, jsut trying to offer more power for the buck. I would guess that Eurospec takes Stock Cams and re manufactures them for the profit. That would be my guess, since the manuf cost would be cheaper.

Have you isntalled the TT cams yet? if so, do you like them?

[blinkinbanana]

There is nothing wrong with Techtonics Cams, jsut trying to offer more power for the buck. I would guess that Eurospec takes Stock Cams and re manufactures them for the profit. That would be my guess, since the manuf cost would be cheaper.

Have you isntalled the TT cams yet? if so, do you like them?

They are in... But I'm waiting on a few gaskets I over looked. Should start her up Saturday. Can't wait.

[BOUDAH]

Awesome. My buddy had them in his R with an EVOMsIT tune. They were solid, IMO.

Post up some videos when u can

[bolide]

Where does eurospec say the 268/264 is a regrind? All I saw was that the use new blanks.

[blinkinbanana]

Awesome. My buddy had them in his R with an EVOMsIT tune. They were solid, IMO.

Post up some videos when u can

All last week I dreamt of what I though would have been last Sunday drive in the R. Now I have a whole second week to think and dream about it, actually can't sleep at night cause I'm thinking about my new found power. I did want a Pre start up video, plenty of stock R videos, but I will make sure to get a post install video. I didn't take many pictures, I hope to get some of the intake runners on the head. Filthy. I've decided to not bother port matching the head, too dangerous with the head on and might gain a horse power. My flex pipe is looking old and worn so I might do the exhaust manifolds like Cspence. Might just buy and weld in a new flex joint.

[Cspence]

HPAs Cams for example are regrinds. Why is that a concern to everyone, Quality?

Eh, I guess its not so much about the cams being regrinds as it is about the reputation Eurospec has....Its never a good sign if you go to google and type in "-------- issues" and several things pop up. I did just that (Eurospec Cam Issues) and several threads on various forums popped up. If I read positive things, I'd probably buy these in a heart beat for the added duration. Maybe a used set of schricks will appear when I'm really in the market

[BOUDAH]

hmm, well thats good to know :-/

[BOUDAH]

Where does eurospec say the 268/264 is a regrind? All I saw was that the use new blanks.

I coulda sworn i saw regrinds on there..... If not then my mistake

[Nicky666]

I coulda sworn i saw regrinds on there..... If not then my mistake

Same here, and I dont get how the 268/264 are cheaper than the 264/260.