IL 2013 Acura ILX First Drive

[2.0T_Convert]

Talk about damning with faint praise.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/23/2...-drive-review/

Acura hopes to find 35,000 buyers for the ILX sedan per year, and they very well may hit that figure. If you're in the market for an entry-level vehicle from a premium automaker, by all means have a look at the ILX... just be sure to check out its competition before signing on the dotted line. As much as we'd like to tell you that the ILX heralds a return to Acura's roots – innovation, value and technology – we can't, because it simply doesn't.

[hrama803]

[a2a4raddo]

I don't see where you have done anything but post the price ranges of BMW's sedans. That never was my point. So either you misundrstood what I was saying or can't disprove the point I was making.

Perhaps you forget when you said this.....

There is overlap in every segment, but you know very well that this is a lot more overlap than in other situations..

Me posting BMW's overlap is just that, proof that overlap exists with every luxury make....larger overlap then with Acura who's overlap is in fact smaller then just about anyone elses....with few exceptions.

I didn't say all of them would be. See this is where reading comprehension is not your friend today. Back up cameras are expected to be required in 2014. It really isn't the big luxury appointment you are making it out to be. None of those are. It doesn't matter that they aren't on the TSX, the point was they hardly add much value. Certainly not to make up for 50 less hp, the size difference, and possibly even material quality difference which you keep sidestepping from addressing. Add them all together and it's not a net to the ILX. So what if it has extra features - if those features don't add much value then who cares.

Or maybe reading comp isnt your friend today? Lets look back at the convo.

Your claim: ILX 2.0L Premium Gives you the same Features as the TSX, only with 50 Fewer Ponies.

I stated, the cheaper ILX actually give syou more features then the more expensive TSX. Which is a fact. So you were wrong, but can't accept that. So you back peddle, try to change your tone, and then go on rambling how those features will be required. Well again, What is your Source that any of them will be required? And even if 1 of 4 will in fact be required by 2014...that doesnt change anything today. ILX comes with a multi view camera (TSX has none). ILX comes with Pandora, SMS Text, & push Button....TSX does not (at any price). You just keep going in circles, yet you have the audacity to claim i am the one arguing for arguments sake? Get real dude.

Im not side stepping anything about material quality, im just not jumping to conclusions and creating an argument (you keep trying to create) about unknowns. We dont know how the ILX will stack up to a TSX in regards to interior quality. The car hasnt even been released yet. I have not sat in one either. So i don't have a leg to stand on in regards to that subject, but niether do you....so why bring it up? I'll tell you why, because you liek to argue for arguments sake and twist your words and bring up other points that were not even the topic of discussion.

What next, are you going to go with an "I know you are but what am I"? You agreed that the ILX is overpriced, but for some reason have to go out of your way to claim it's pricing similarity to the TSX is justified by all the extra content it has. So I really don't understand what your point is. But it's a minimal point at best that I've wasted too much time on.

I'm not going out of my way to justify the ILX's pricing. Not the 2.0L Premium pack anyway. Im simply correcting the misinformation you try and pawn off as fact.

Here are my points which i have already stated, but again...reading comp. is not YOUR friend today.

-Other luxury makes have more overlap btwn models then Acura does.
-The ILX 2.0L Premium has more feature content then the TSX base (Premium in Canada) and costs less money.

[GTRaavv]

Me posting BMW's overlap is just that, proof that overlap exists with every luxury make....larger overlap then with Acura who's overlap is in fact smaller then just about anyone elses....with few exceptions.

You quoted me saying that overlap exists in the market. So what did you prove? My point again focuses on the similarity in price between a comparable ILX and TSX - $800 - and how that small of a price gap makes the ILX look way overpriced. You haven't pointed to one other brand that has 2 models that are that similarly priced when comparably equipped.

Or maybe reading comp isnt your friend today? Lets look back at the convo.

Your claim: ILX 2.0L Premium Gives you the same Features as the TSX, only with 50 Fewer Ponies.

I said roughly the same features. See there's the reading problem again. You listed a few minor features, yet didn't factor in advantages that the TSX has over the ILX. So you really haven't corrected any misinformation, jsut gone through a lot of effort to attempt to prove some trival points which you misunderstood.

[a2a4raddo]

You quoted me saying that overlap exists in the market. So what did you prove? My point again focuses on the similarity in price between a comparable ILX and TSX - $800 - and how that small of a price gap makes the ILX look way overpriced. You haven't pointed to one other brand that has 2 models that are that similarly priced when comparably equipped.


I said roughly the same features. See there's the reading problem again. You listed a few minor features, yet didn't factor in advantages that the TSX has over the ILX. So you really haven't corrected any misinformation, jsut gone through a lot of effort to attempt to prove some trival points which you misunderstood.

Plenty brands have different vehicles that are similarly priced when comparably equiped, luxury or not. What i did point out is that Overlap exists with all luxury makes, with Acura having one of the smallest overlaps of all luxury brands.

You point changed because you back peddled. But then again...nothing new there...every single time you are wrong you back peddle and change your tone.


No reading probem. Point still stands. A 2.0L ILX which is cheaper then a TSX is equiped with more features. You consider those features minor...many people may consider them a must have...especially push start (a feature people have compalined about not being avail in the TSX at any price for years). I will say this yet again, that fact that you do not value said features is a moot point.

As for the TSX and its advantages over the ILX...i didnt come here to name those...but its only real known advantage is size....fuel economy, price, and feature content are all in the ILX's favor.

The closest two models (apples to apples) are the ILX 2.4L & TSX SE, and that price diff. is closer to 2K. And again, the ILX has more features.

And yes, i have corrected misinformation, but you can keep back peddling and pretending i have not.

lastly, you claimed you wasted way too much time on this in a previous post....so why exactly are you still stuck backpeddling?

[Mazda 3s]

Bla Bla Bla

Yack Yack Yack

[GTRaavv]

Plenty brands have different vehicles that are similarly priced when comparably equiped, luxury or not. What i did point out is that Overlap exists with all luxury makes, with Acura having one of the smallest overlaps of all luxury brands.

Yet you still haven't been able to cite one example with as close of an overlap. Not a single one in all this time. But maybe if you keep repeating it it will come true.

You point changed because you back peddled. But then again...nothing new there...every single time you are wrong you back peddle and change your tone.

My point never changed. Quote where it changed. You just didn't comprehend it and want to pull the 1sicklex approach by turning it around.

As for the TSX and its advantages over the ILX...i didnt come here to name those...but its only real known advantage is size....fuel economy, price, and feature content are all in the ILX's favor.

Oh well since you've clearly sat in the ILX and driven it, please give us a review of its interior quality and how it drives. Funny how you seem to discount the value of size, but claim a push button start is essential.

The closest two models (apples to apples) are the ILX 2.4L & TSX SE, and that price diff. is closer to 2K. And again, the ILX has more features.

Ah yes because if people can't live without push button start, they surely will buy a model that doesn't have an auto option. Still an $800 difference between the base TSX and 2.0L premium no matter if its not as apples to apples as you'd prefer.


Clearly I'm not the only person who feels the same way. Go argue with the writer of this article. Maybe you'll be more successful next go around.

[rlaltiowner05]

I agree. The ILX is overpriced. But still offers more feature content for less money then the TSX..which is the point i'm making.

They should have released this car withthe new ED engines, but for whatever reason...they rushed the car...even though the TSX is still going to be around for another MY.

LOL, the ILX doesn't feature "more content" than the TSX, its pretty much a wash, the value of the content differences boils down to personal preferences.

Text message and Pandora and better fuel economy on the ILX are nice to have, but so are the memory seats, memory mirrors, power passenger's seat and 50 extra hp, extra interior room and better interior materials the TSX offers. You act as if the ILX has it all over the TSX in content, I've gotta agree with GTR on this one, you're grasping for straws...content wise, the ILX is about where the previous generation TSX was before it got facelifted.

[J-Tim]

That's got to be the best looking car in Honda's lineup at the moment.

[2.0T_Convert]

That's got to be the best looking car in Honda's lineup at the moment.

I've been down that read before. Nice to behold but not as nice once you have to drive it everyday and become an old man filled with regret about what you could have bought for the same coin.

[dmorrow]

I've been down that read before. Nice to behold but not as nice once you have to drive it everyday and become an old man filled with regret about what you could have bought for the same coin.

Personally, I think what you bought (was it a CR-Z??) was a completely different level. But it does show that people have different opinions and wants different things out of a car.

I agree the ILX isn't for me but as much as we want to debate the features and benefits, I could see my wife wanting this car and it wouldn't be a bad enough choice that I would spend much time trying to talk her out of it (especially with me in the process of buying a weekend car that will cost about the same).

She wants a small car with a lot of features, prefers the Honda/Acura brand because of past experience, wants adequate acceleration and good gas mileage (doesn't care about 0-60 times). We can afford to spend more but try to save money whenever possible (almost). I think there are enough people like her that will see it as enough of an upgrade over the Civic to pay the money. If we end up buying it there may have been better choices but I don't see us regretting it.

[Mazda 3s]

To tell you the truth, I'd rather have a Ford Focus Titanium... hell, I'd even put up with its sh!tty transmission. It's a damn shame that the Focus is more technologically loaded than the ILX.

Honda/Acura in general just doesn't seem to advance the ball much on, well, ANYTHING

[P-Body]

I've been down that read before. Nice to behold but not as nice once you have to drive it everyday and become an old man filled with regret about what you could have bought for the same coin.

Meh. All this talk about the Verano. I've seen a Verano in the flesh and it's a hideous lump from just about every angle. Ultimately, people buying these things in this range want the amenities, decent style and a good badge. Everything else is superfluous as long as the thing is priced right. I see loads of base Lexus IS250s up here, and it's not because it's a special car in any particular sense - it's because it's a Lexus for 31k to start.

This looks like the same formula. An Acura badge at this price point, with these clean looks, and with some nice features will do very well. The more important car for their lineup is the TLX - that will be a true indication of whether or not they're moving in the right direction, as it theoretically SHOULD be their bread and butter vehicle.

[2.0T_Convert]

Meh. All this talk about the Verano. I've seen a Verano in the flesh and it's a hideous lump from just about every angle. Ultimately, people buying these things in this range want the amenities, decent style and a good badge. Everything else is superfluous as long as the thing is priced right. I see loads of base Lexus IS250s up here, and it's not because it's a special car in any particular sense - it's because it's a Lexus for 31k to start.

This looks like the same formula. An Acura badge at this price point, with these clean looks, and with some nice features will do very well. The more important car for their lineup is the TLX - that will be a true indication of whether or not they're moving in the right direction, as it theoretically SHOULD be their bread and butter vehicle.

Personally I think the Verano looks great, I dislike the chrome trim over the lights but on the plus side GM managed to give it wheels big enough to fit the cars proportions unlike Acura who only offers the same size wheels as a dealer accessory.

I think our views of the products may vary due to the difference in US vs Canadian pricing.

As for the CR-Z vs ILX as mentioned above no I see somewhat of the same trap I fell into. Looks good but not as much fun to drive. When you get down to it Honda has an inferior hybrid system so in the end if I wanted a premium small car for the city the Lexus CT is hard to beat meanwhile if I wanted a premium car for long highway travels I'd go with a hopefully much improved A3 sedan TDI. ILX falls somewhere short in both cases. It just isn't exciting or unique enough to warrant overlooking other more mainstream choices.

[Turbio!]

I just wonder if "tweener" brands have any future at all in the US auto market. Mass-market brands are so good, and deliver so much content, that unless you're really offering something special, like extraordinary quality or luxury or some great dynamic advantage, there really seems to be no reason not to go with one of them. As the article points out, we live in an era where a $23k Focus Titanium is a convincing alternative to an Acura, and in fact beats in in most ways. Hyundai credibly produces the Genesis and Equus, VW sells the CC, Nissan sells the Maxima, and Chevrolet just popped out a pretty nice new Impala, too - so clearly mass-market brands can sell "tweener" cars but without a "tweener" brand.

Conversely, if some people would rather own one of the tier 1 brands, and those brands are stretching down into the $25-30k range with a variety of models.

Do brands like Buick, Acura, Lincoln, perhaps Chrysler, and Volvo actually have any particular point, or are they on marketing life support? Chrysler might be the exception that proves the rule, but the 300 is legitimately different from the 200C/Avenger because it's RWD and comes with a V8. The rest do nothing that a "nice" range-topper from a mainstream brand doesn't do just as well. Unless you're doing something special, which Acura is resolutely not, the point is pretty unclear to me.

[Swallow Doretti]

To tell you the truth, I'd rather have a Ford Focus Titanium... hell, I'd even put up with its sh!tty transmission. It's a damn shame that the Focus is more technologically loaded than the ILX.

Honda/Acura in general just doesn't seem to advance the ball much on, well, ANYTHING

I said it on page 1, and I'll say it again here: Dodge Dart.

(though if a premium nameplate were the priority, the Buick Verano still offers more car for significantly less money than the ILX).

[Turbio!]

I said it on page 1, and I'll say it again here: Dodge Dart.

(though if a premium nameplate were the priority, the Buick Verano still offers more car for significantly less money than the ILX).

I was whelmed by the Dart at the Denver Auto Show. Not over or under, just whelmed. But it was no more whelming than the ILX, and you could load a Dart R/T it to the tits and never get anywhere near $26k.

[Swallow Doretti]

I was whelmed by the Dart at the Denver Auto Show. Not over or under, just whelmed. But it was no more whelming than the ILX, and you could load a Dart R/T it to the tits and never get anywhere near $26k.

Well, it looked like a loaded Dart was actually going to top out closer to $30K, but that was still with more equipment than the ILX. The styling is growing on me, and if it drives as good as they say, it should be the most fun-to-drive car in its class.

[GTRaavv]

I just wonder if "tweener" brands have any future at all in the US auto market. Mass-market brands are so good, and deliver so much content, that unless you're really offering something special, like extraordinary quality or luxury or some great dynamic advantage, there really seems to be no reason not to go with one of them. As the article points out, we live in an era where a $23k Focus Titanium is a convincing alternative to an Acura, and in fact beats in in most ways. Hyundai credibly produces the Genesis and Equus, VW sells the CC, Nissan sells the Maxima, and Chevrolet just popped out a pretty nice new Impala, too - so clearly mass-market brands can sell "tweener" cars but without a "tweener" brand.

Conversely, if some people would rather own one of the tier 1 brands, and those brands are stretching down into the $25-30k range with a variety of models.

Do brands like Buick, Acura, Lincoln, perhaps Chrysler, and Volvo actually have any particular point, or are they on marketing life support? Chrysler might be the exception that proves the rule, but the 300 is legitimately different from the 200C/Avenger because it's RWD and comes with a V8. The rest do nothing that a "nice" range-topper from a mainstream brand doesn't do just as well. Unless you're doing something special, which Acura is resolutely not, the point is pretty unclear to me.

You raise a good point. The only real use for a tweener brand I see is being able to sell smaller, cheaper luxury cars without diluting a true luxury brand. Sure a Titanium Focus is comparable, but Ford's sales are proof that people aren't quickly convinced to fork over $26k for a compact with a blue oval on it. And one the other end of the spectrum, luxury brands are bound to lose their appeal as they become so mainstream they are commonplace - like it happens with whatever trendy, ugly handbag women are going after at the moment. Buick and Mini seem to serve a valuable purpose if it keeps Cadillac and BMW from sinking below the $30k plebian high water mark. Others I am unsure about, especially when paired with mainstream brands with high value and loyalty attached to them, like Ford and Honda.

[Mazda 3s]

Focus is comparable, but Ford's sales are proof that people aren't quickly convinced to fork over $26k for a compact with a blue oval on it.

Ford sold 175,000 Focii last year. With regards to your comment, did Ford sell around the number of Focus Titaniums that Acura is expecting to sell of the ILX per year (35,000 units).

[HK]

bump

[Turbio!]

You raise a good point. The only real use for a tweener brand I see is being able to sell smaller, cheaper luxury cars without diluting a true luxury brand. Sure a Titanium Focus is comparable, but Ford's sales are proof that people aren't quickly convinced to fork over $26k for a compact with a blue oval on it. .

To the contrary, Ford's model mix projections were way off and the demand for Titaniums is very high. Obviously, the midlevel trims are doing the best, but people like them some loaded Focuses, it seems.

[GTRaavv]

Ford sold 175,000 Focii last year. With regards to your comment, did Ford sell around the number of Focus Titaniums that Acura is expecting to sell of the ILX per year (35,000 units).

That's a real point. Even if they only sold half of that when you factor in the costs of running a separate dealership network it has to balance out easily.

[Turbio!]

That's a real point. Even if they only sold half of that when you factor in the costs of running a separate dealership network it has to balance out easily.

And the marketing, development, and model mix costs. If demand for Titaniums booms, Ford can adjust their model mix to produce more specced-up vehicles, and they did. If it slackens, they can focus on SELs and SEs. Meanwhile, it's all basically the same components, plus or minus a SYNC screen here or there. Honda can't do the same with the ILX and Civic.

[2.0T_Convert]

Eliminate the entry level luxry brands... never thought about that. Still I guess a part of me still understands the need. I mean I would love a Volvo S60 but say you give me the same internals in a Ford Fusion and I just give it a mehhhhh. I want that premium badge.

[a2a4raddo]

Yet you still haven't been able to cite one example with as close of an overlap. Not a single one in all this time. But maybe if you keep repeating it it will come true.


My point never changed. Quote where it changed. You just didn't comprehend it and want to pull the 1sicklex approach by turning it around.


Oh well since you've clearly sat in the ILX and driven it, please give us a review of its interior quality and how it drives. Funny how you seem to discount the value of size, but claim a push button start is essential.


Ah yes because if people can't live without push button start, they surely will buy a model that doesn't have an auto option. Still an $800 difference between the base TSX and 2.0L premium no matter if its not as apples to apples as you'd prefer.


Clearly I'm not the only person who feels the same way. Go argue with the writer of this article. Maybe you'll be more successful next go around.

Actually i cited several BMW Examples with a larger overlap. But you backpeddled to change your tune in an attempt to try and be right when you were clearly wrong.



I have not clearly sat inan ILX. I even stated that i have notsat in one. Hell, i have not even seen one in person. But you clearly must have being that you claim the interior is built to a higher standard in the TSX.

I never discounted the value of size. What i did do is mention that its the only real place the TSX has an Advantage at this point.....And that is based on the fact that no review has compared them, and niether you or i have sat in and drove both back to back to in order to make any other judgements. The only thing we know is what we have read on a spec sheet and what we have seen in photos. As for push button. i never said it was essential either...what i did say is that many buyers do feel it is essential, and it is a complaint the TSX had for many years.

And again...what people will buy is besides the Point. The closest two vehicles in regards to spec are the ILX 2.4 & TSX SE. Which happen to be the enthusaist picks...as they have a close ratio 6MT. Those two cars are seperated by nearly 2K. Which too me sounds about right.....in other words, the ILX 2.0L Prem is priced about 1.2K too high.


I've already stated my points several times, why you keep backpeddling and changing your argument...im not sure.

We both agree the ILX is priced high. I corrected misinformation you posted. Leave it at that and move on.

[a2a4raddo]

LOL, the ILX doesn't feature "more content" than the TSX, its pretty much a wash, the value of the content differences boils down to personal preferences.
.

What other content does the TSX offer besides memory seats/mirrors that cant be had in the ILX exactly?

Im not grasping at any straws. You are just over looking my point. Im not attempting to justify the ILX 2.0L's price. It is too expensive...point, blank, period. That said...it is cheaper then a TSX and offers more feature content for the driver. Items i value more then memory seats, items market research has found most people value more, hence why it is avail with those items.

as far as interior materials go. Have you sat in both cars. You keep mentioning the TSX has a higher quality interior? What are you basing that statement on...a few photos of the ILX interior?

[GTRaavv]

And that is based on the fact that no review has compared them

In my post you quoted, there is a link to a review that compares them. Basically says the exact same thing I and others have said. Instead of giving yourself backpats for delusionally believing you won some e-pissing contest by rebutting statements that I clearly never made, how 'bout you read the article. Hopefully that will work out better for ya

[a2a4raddo]

In my post you quoted, there is a link to a review that compares them. Basically says the exact same thing I and others have said. Instead of giving yourself backpats for delusionally believing you won some e-pissing contest by rebutting statements that I clearly never made, how 'bout you read the article. Hopefully that will work out better for ya

I don't belive i won anything. Im just laughing at all the backpeddling you do everytime you get into an argument with anyone on any thread where you are wrong about anything.

[TigerinColorado]

I was whelmed by the Dart at the Denver Auto Show. Not over or under, just whelmed.

The single one they had up on the platform with the hottie? The one you could NOT get in? The pre-production model?!

But it was no more whelming than the ILX,

Where did you actually see an ILX? Not at the Denver Auto show! Do tell. Even the friggin' RDX was locked up 'Pre-Production Concept' style and behind a barrier.

and you could load a Dart R/T it to the tits and never get anywhere near $26k.

This.

[koko12]

I don't think the IXL is a bad vehicle at all, just that it is priced about $5K too high in every model. $31K would put you behind the wheel of a 128i, or an S60 and $32K would get you a G25. Even if the IXL is fully loaded for $30K, i'd rather have one of the others in their most basic forms over it.

[rlaltiowner05]

Ford sold 175,000 Focii last year. With regards to your comment, did Ford sell around the number of Focus Titaniums that Acura is expecting to sell of the ILX per year (35,000 units).

What most people fail to realize is that the Focus SEL can be equipped almost as nicely as a Titanium...outside of the Sport suspensions, push button start and 18 inch wheel, and now the manual transmssion, every other option on the Titanium is available on the SEL, including two-tone leather interiors.

Before the Focus hit dealer lots, Ford predicted sales of the SEL/Titanium models would equal about 18 percent of sales or about 31,500 sales each year...andn that prediction was made before the surge in demand for SEL/Titanium trims...I'd imagine about 25 percent of sales are now SEL/Titanium trim.

The SEL competes well with the base ILX in feature content and loaded SEL/Titanium trims compare well against the ILX 2.0 Premium.

[GTRaavv]

I don't belive i won anything. Im just laughing at all the backpeddling you do everytime you get into an argument with anyone on any thread where you are wrong about anything.

Well I usually get into arguments with people that misquote what I say and then instead of addressing the issue at hand run off on the most trivial of details because they have no real point. Case and point this convo. Funny that this all came from me praising the TSX. So did the review I posted. Take a look.

[rlaltiowner05]

What other content does the TSX offer besides memory seats/mirrors that cant be had in the ILX exactly?

Im not grasping at any straws. You are just over looking my point. Im not attempting to justify the ILX 2.0L's price. It is too expensive...point, blank, period. That said...it is cheaper then a TSX and offers more feature content for the driver. Items i value more then memory seats, items market research has found most people value more, hence why it is avail with those items.

as far as interior materials go. Have you sat in both cars. You keep mentioning the TSX has a higher quality interior? What are you basing that statement on...a few photos of the ILX interior?

I stated memory seats and mirrors, a power passenger's seat, more hp and a bigger and better interior.

I'm no more over looking your point than you are overlooking mine. Pandora, text messaging, slightly better MPG may be important to you, as a driver, but it doesn't neccessarily make it so for everybody else. For all the value you put into pandora, text messaging, etc. etc., I happen to find the memory seats, memory mirrors, power passenger's seat and larger interior to be better for ME as a driver. It's a wash, content wise. You try to make it sound as if the ILX comes with some incredible list of feature content over the TSX when its really not so.

Considering the Acura ZDX, Honda Crosstour, Honda Insight and Honda CR-V were all answers to "market" research I'll take those Research "results" with a grain of salt. "Market research" may find that more people prefer the features you like over the ones I prefer but it still doesn't make the ILX "Better equipped" than the TSX...its a wash...the two or three connectivity/media options and better MPG ILX offers over the TSX shouldn't be a surprise, considering it is a newer design.

I guess next you'll tell us outside of a bigger interior, LED taill lamps, and V6 power, the ILX is better equipped than the base TL too because the ILX has pandora, text messaging etc. etc and better MPG..and because of some group of people from "Market Research" the ILX doesn't have to offer those options because folks said they don't need to. Acura is just being cheap and chasing profit...this car was probably the original Civic that got canned anyway.

The feature content differences are a wash...point...blank...period.


As far as the interiors themselves, I've spent an extensive amount of time in the current TSX (which IMO is a stepdown in design and materials from the 1st gen TSX) and last week I did get a chance to check out the ILX at the autoshow, though I didn't get to actually sit in the car, I did get a chance to peek at the materials and the overall design. The design, IMO is a step down from the TSX and in some areas so are the materials, a few auto reviews seem to back up that claim.

[czykvw]

Here are some crappy cellphone pictures of one we just got. Tech package for 32k. I like it, nothing amazing, but its not bad at all. Only silly thing I can think of is, the car is 32k, and it comes with a regular hood prop rod.