Ideas for down the road: Making an .:R B5.5 Passat...

[dublax44]

Alright so I was thinking of how many people do engine swaps and drivetrain swaps etc, and I was thinking how cool would it be to put a 3.2L VR6 .:R32 engine in a B5.5 Passat?! A whole transmission and 4-Motion swap would be done as well. Or even put a 3.6L VR6 engine in from the new CC's. Now that would be pretty sweet. I'm just wondering what ideas are out there and opinions about this. This wouldn't happen for a while, but just to get an idea and maybe start a budget for it.

[sdavis872]

The 3.6l come in b6 passats as well, not just CC. But I think you're going to have a VERY difficult time getting a transverse engine (VR6) to mount in a longitudinal engined car (B5 passats). Not saying it's impossible but I would think it's 100% not worth it. Just buy a b6 passat with a 3.6L and make an R36 (which was available in europe). Or buy a W8, then you'll have your AWD and similar power to a 3.6L VR6, and it'll be stock and you won't have to worry about all the issues you'll have with doing such a drastic engine swap. Not to mention, doing a 4 motion from an R32 into a Passat would pretty much be impossible, you'd spend so much time and money custom making stuff to fit when you could just buy a 4 motion passat and have, what I consider, a superior awd system. Basically if you think about it at all, it's in no way worth doing. I'm assuming you just like the idea, but have no clue to the work involved.

[dublax44]

Thanks for the ideas, I might just buy a 4 motion passat then. And this is just all up in the air, nothing is set in stone as this is just an idea. I just want to make a unique passat maybe, thats all. I want a passat thats different then all the rest

[scotts13]

Any single one of those modifications is WAY past practical. VR6 in a B5 would be extraordinary difficult, and to the best of my knowledge has never been done. The 4Motion is comparatively easy - you just need a complete donor 4Motion Passat. You cut out the entire rear floorpan aft of the front seats, and weld in a similar body section from the donor car. Then move the transmission, driveshafts, fuel tank, rear seats, etc. There's some electrical work to do as well. I think one guy actually did this one. Much, much, MUCH better to simply buy one of the relatively rare manual-transmission W8's, and save some of the money you saved towards new cam chain tensioners.

[ArcticFox]

034 Motorsports makes a kit to mount a VR6 into a B5 Passat/A4. Totally doable.

[18t papa]

I go to school in Buffalo, NY and theres a B5 A4 Avant with a big turbo vr6 in it. It's stupid fast.

[sdavis872]

034 Motorsports makes a kit to mount a VR6 into a B5 Passat/A4. Totally doable.

I go to school in Buffalo, NY and theres a B5 A4 Avant with a big turbo vr6 in it. It's stupid fast.

Links/pics?

[18t papa]

Here's his build thread on the local forum up here...

http://www.dubsinthebuff.com/forum/s...di-A4-Haenszel

[Steve in Chicago]

The 4Motion conversion would be ideal if it were a bolt-in project. Unfortunately it isn't. The rear chassis of the car and the way the rear suspension is attached it totally different. I've seen it done, but it took sectioning in the rear chassis from a donor car. You'd be better off starting out with a 4Motion car to begin with.

[fry178]

b6 3.6 VR6 and 4motion or the audi where the quattro is a bit better then the 4motion stuff on vw..

i mean above 200hp the AWD is nice to have and im never going back to F/RWD (unless car is in the 6 digits price range ), but the quattro is more advanced (and the audis in general)...

[sdavis872]

b6 3.6 VR6 and 4motion or the audi where the quattro is a bit better then the 4motion stuff on vw..

i mean above 200hp the AWD is nice to have and im never going back to F/RWD (unless car is in the 6 digits price range ), but the quattro is more advanced (and the audis in general)...

4motion on a B5 Passat is the same as quattro on an Audi, both Torsen based AWD systems. It's the Haldex system that VW uses on some stuff and I'd say it's not as good as Torsen.

[Steve in Chicago]

I might have this wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the VW 4Motion center torsen is set up with a 50/50 torque bias and some models of the Audi Quattro are set up with a bias favoring the rear axle.

[sdavis872]

I might have this wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the VW 4Motion center torsen is set up with a 50/50 torque bias and some models of the Audi Quattro are set up with a bias favoring the rear axle.

Depends on what generation of Torsen we're talking about. A 4motion B5/B5.5 Passat has the same AWD system as a B5 S4, or a C5 A6, etc. (50/50 split under normal driving), new B7s and B8 Audis have a newer generation of Torsen and are setup to be 40/60 under normal.

[98Silve1.8t]

I would guess a 2.7tt or even 4.2V8 will be easier to swap than a 3.6V6

[E CODE]

2.7tt has been attempted on here before.... it never got finished if I remember right... you need to source parts from the most unlikely places... like the A6.... and getting all of the control modules to play nice is a huge PITA....

Just buy an S4 wagon if you want the 2.7tt, and you get AWD too....

[ArcticFox]

Links/pics?

http://www.034motorsport.com/chassis...s-p-14000.html

[fry178]

4motion: with v6 or bigger its torsen & 50:50
with smaller engines its haldex and 60:40


audi has a semi-automatic limited slip diff, that vw didnt have until 2nd gen. 4motion.
audi is (still ?) using torsen typ A, cant tell about vw..

have seen a lot of guys with "asian" based 50:50 AWD liking the quattro more when it comes to driving. same for me.
thats for sedan/station wagon only.
R8/gallardo are different story...

[dublax44]

Dang, I like the good ideas and opinions and all the info Im getting here guys

Keep it coming!!

[sdavis872]

4motion: with v6 or bigger its torsen & 50:50
with smaller engines its haldex and 60:40


audi has a semi-automatic limited slip diff, that vw didnt have until 2nd gen. 4motion.
audi is (still ?) using torsen typ A, cant tell about vw..

have seen a lot of guys with "asian" based 50:50 AWD liking the quattro more when it comes to driving. same for me.
thats for sedan/station wagon only.
R8/gallardo are different story...

engine size doesn't matter, it's engine orientation. Longitudinal (Passat) is Torsen, transverse is Haldex. Such as a 1.8t Passat is going to be the same set up as a 1.8t A4 (both Torsen) where as an R32 ("V6" VR6 really) is Haldex

[dublax44]

So if I can get the VR6 to mount in mt engine bay I could do it?

[E CODE]

Absolutely.

Bring along a sack of $100 bills with you....

[fry178]

engine size doesn't matter, it's engine orientation. Longitudinal (Passat) is Torsen, transverse is Haldex. Such as a 1.8t Passat is going to be the same set up as a 1.8t A4 (both Torsen) where as an R32 ("V6" VR6 really) is Haldex

your right, forgot about B5 and up being longt. again...

but even for the ones where they use the same tech., its still 50:50 (vs 60:40 for audi).
which makes a difference in driving and the reason i dont see it as being "identical"..
more from the drivers perspective rather than physical difference in tech.

vw always had a bit Less technology or is one gen. behind" audi, so not to interfere with their lineup.

[sdavis872]

your right, forgot about B5 and up being longt. again...

but even for the ones where they use the same tech., its still 50:50 (vs 60:40 for audi).
which makes a difference in driving and the reason i dont see it as being "identical"..
more from the drivers perspective rather than physical difference in tech.

vw always had a bit Less technology or is one gen. behind" audi, so not to interfere with their lineup.

B5 is B5, whether it's Audi or Passat, they have the same Torsen, both 50:50. Where are you getting your info from? It's not an Audi vs VW thing, it's a generational thing.

[fry178]

i guess i explained it wrong. they are the same if u look at the generation.
but compare the year and audi is ahead.
if i go and buy a new audi a4, it will have different specs compared to the passat sold at vw...

passat is a B7 (since 2010) and audi sells B8 since 2007.

i guess thats different over here copared to germany..
e.g. no one says golf-Mk. 1
its a golf 1 or 2 or 3 or .....
never heard anyone over there saying "B" for a passat or audi unless at the counter for parts...

[dublax44]

I appreciate all the input and quality information guys! please keep it coming

[Capt. Obvious]

If this is something you really want to attempt, your best bet is to start with a V6 4motion model with a manual transmission. Then, swap a 2.7T from a B5 S4/C5 A6 into it. The engine itself will more or less bolt into the engine bay and mate with the transmission.

It's been done before:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...2-7T-in-a-VDUB