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    Thread: AdBlue spill... WTF... just noticed today...

    1. 04-28-2012 01:00 PM #26
      So what happened to the person who did the original service and messed everything up?

      Everyone talks about bad service or good service at dealerships. The service that you receive, depends on the brain attached to the hands, that work on your vehicle.

      Have we established if there is lack of factory training, or just a lack of attention to detail.

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      04-28-2012 01:57 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by racecrmike View Post
      So what happened to the person who did the original service and messed everything up?

      Everyone talks about bad service or good service at dealerships. The service that you receive, depends on the brain attached to the hands, that work on your vehicle.

      Have we established if there is lack of factory training, or just a lack of attention to detail.
      Why didn't VW do it right the first time? This is a picture that appears to be of an Audi diesel and Adblue fill. It's so simple and I can't believe any more expensive than the Passat setup during production. If VW is in such a cost cutting mode, why would they design something that is going to create such a liability?



      Picture from Myturbodiesel.com

      http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...di-dpf-faq.htm
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    3. 04-28-2012 02:20 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by jkinzel View Post
      Why didn't VW do it right the first time? This is a picture that appears to be of an Audi diesel and Adblue fill. It's so simple and I can't believe any more expensive than the Passat setup during production. If VW is in such a cost cutting mode, why would they design something that is going to create such a liability?



      Picture from Myturbodiesel.com

      http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...di-dpf-faq.htm
      Training issue and a design THAT IS NOT FORGIVING in the Passat. I like the design in this photo because if one spills just finish filling and hose the $hit out of the spill area and run it through a car wash. Simple as that and a design that is not new.

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      04-29-2012 12:19 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Training issue and a design THAT IS NOT FORGIVING in the Passat. I like the design in this photo because if one spills just finish filling and hose the $hit out of the spill area and run it through a car wash. Simple as that and a design that is not new.
      noticed a lot of pics from my site here and wish to clarify a few points.

      Adblue bottles are SPILLPROOF. You cannot spill the contents unless someone took a bulk quantity and poured it all over the place. They also make SPILLPROOF hoses for bulk gallon containers.

      /mystery. Granted, I see the design could use some work but seriously, I cannot see someone spilling this stuff unless they have someone with lobster claw hands (it's a real birth defect so maybe I shouldn't joke) working in the back.

    5. 04-29-2012 07:23 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by chittychittybangbang View Post
      noticed a lot of pics from my site here and wish to clarify a few points.

      Adblue bottles are SPILLPROOF. You cannot spill the contents unless someone took a bulk quantity and poured it all over the place. They also make SPILLPROOF hoses for bulk gallon containers.

      /mystery. Granted, I see the design could use some work but seriously, I cannot see someone spilling this stuff unless they have someone with lobster claw hands (it's a real birth defect so maybe I shouldn't joke) working in the back.
      Thanks chitty for the Touareg and Q7 pics.

      They must have been pouring from bulk, as I learned from your posted info, the spill proof bottles have a special spill proof cap built in. Some sort of simple valve?
      Last edited by Imola Yellow GTi; 04-29-2012 at 10:37 AM.

    6. 04-29-2012 10:32 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Thanks chitty for the Touareg and Q7 pics.

      They must of been pouring from bulk, as I learned from your posted info, the spill proof bottles have a special spill proof cap built in. Some sort of simple valve?
      it's "must HAVE," not "must of." i know that's what it sounds like, because you're thinking of must've, but it's not must of. that annoys me to death. like when people say your when they mean you're, or their, there, and they're...

      anyway, just trying to fix it one person at a time! not trying to bug ya.

    7. 04-29-2012 10:40 AM #32
      Just because I adore you, the requested grammatical correction has been completed.

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      04-29-2012 10:56 AM #33
      Im sorry this happened to you and your vehicle. I'm not trying to rub it in, but if that were my vehicle it would just totally ruin the car for me, as I am a constant worrier about things. I would always worry if it would really end up corroding any of the areas the fluid came in contact with, or it is safe to leave in its crystallized form. I would almost be obsessive compulsive about it.

      If it were me, I wouldve contacted VWOA and complained and gotten a lawyer if they weren't willing to give you a new vehicle to replace, its totally unacceptable to have a spill that large, and the crystals even grew onto the seats! I wouldn't want my wife and expcially my kids constantly exposed to any chemical like that. Although, they say its harmless to humans, can you really trust everything they say and do? Does AdBlue have any type of fume/smell to it when its in liquid form or dried crystal?

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      04-29-2012 11:13 AM #34
      I have no idea what your legal rights are in this situation, but if possible I would want all seats, carpet and trunk lining materials, i.e. any material that absorbed the Adblue solution, replaced with new by the offending dealership. Also, are there any mechanical and electrical parts contaminated with Adblue? I would want them replaced as well. With all the safe guards chittychittybangbang described it is totally unacceptable to have a car returned to a customer in this condition. Edit: Even without the safe guards it's totally unacceptable.

      I've been in the maritime industry all my life and I know when salt water gets in places that are carpeted and furniture you can NEVER get all the salt out no matter how much you clean. By looking at the pictures, I don't see the Adblue solution being any different.
      Last edited by jkinzel; 04-29-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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      04-29-2012 11:19 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by TypeRod View Post
      Im sorry this happened to you and your vehicle. I'm not trying to rub it in, but if that were my vehicle it would just totally ruin the car for me, as I am a constant worrier about things. I would always worry if it would really end up corroding any of the areas the fluid came in contact with, or it is safe to leave in its crystallized form. I would almost be obsessive compulsive about it.
      I totally understand how you feel and I can rationalize with you, but just realize that with a big purchase such as a car, they will never just take it back and give you another one. This isn't a burger joint. That's why lemon laws are in place.

      But also keep in mind, in this situation it wasn't the car that did anything it was the tech who spilled it, and didn't bother to clean it up, and let it spill into the passenger compartment. The warranty is there for these kinds of things. And as long as it's documented, if any long-term effects come of it, Imola Yellow GTi, can have them fix (or can sue them successfully) when he's out of warranty.
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      04-29-2012 12:28 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      I totally understand how you feel and I can rationalize with you, but just realize that with a big purchase such as a car, they will never just take it back and give you another one. This isn't a burger joint. That's why lemon laws are in place.

      But also keep in mind, in this situation it wasn't the car that did anything it was the tech who spilled it, and didn't bother to clean it up, and let it spill into the passenger compartment. The warranty is there for these kinds of things. And as long as it's documented, if any long-term effects come of it, Imola Yellow GTi, can have them fix (or can sue them successfully) when he's out of warranty.
      lol. I know I know, you're right. Youre so PC! lol! It would just irk me everytime I got into the car knowing that there no way of completely cleaning it up, and not knowing the long term effects of being exposed to the crystals/chemical. I would still beeyotch and complain and try to get a new vehicle out of it first, then if still no go, settle for a super extended warranty!

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      04-29-2012 02:43 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by TypeRod View Post
      lol. I know I know, you're right. Youre so PC! lol! It would just irk me everytime I got into the car knowing that there no way of completely cleaning it up, and not knowing the long term effects of being exposed to the crystals/chemical. I would still beeyotch and complain and try to get a new vehicle out of it first, then if still no go, settle for a super extended warranty!
      lol... you have to breathe in, and breathe out sometimes. Keeps us from getting wrinkles
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      04-29-2012 03:28 PM #38
      Hi Imola Yellow GTi:

      As a 2012 VW Passat tdi owner myself--I think I can speak for all owners on here: WE HATE THE SERVICE PERSON that did this to your car.

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      04-29-2012 03:32 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      lol... you have to breathe in, and breathe out sometimes. Keeps us from getting wrinkles
      Even THIS doesn't help all the time! Yeah, I'm an old fart!
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    15. 04-30-2012 07:49 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by chittychittybangbang View Post
      noticed a lot of pics from my site here and wish to clarify a few points.
      Adblue bottles are SPILLPROOF. You cannot spill the contents unless someone took a bulk quantity and poured it all over the place. They also make SPILLPROOF hoses for bulk gallon containers
      /mystery. .
      Back to the OP & chitty is correct - AdBlue is a trade name for an entire system of packaging, storing, and using Diesel Exhaust Fluid, and one cannot "spray" nor "spill" such large quantities of DEF around a Passat.
      IMO, the "quick change" part of the dealership was trying to cheat, likely using an AdBlue bottle as a funnel & spilled some volume of DEF, then attempted to wipe it up w/rags, which only spread the uric acid further 'round the car.

      Now, how to clean DEF? It's an acid - thus use a base to neutralize (very light bleach/water combo), then a very mild cleaning compound w/lots of water, wiping down the entire area w/clean rags/towels.
      Once crystallized though, it's no longer an acid, so a very light acid compound (white vinegar & lots of water) or heavily diluted alcohol can be effective...

      Good luck!

    16. 04-30-2012 08:03 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Back to the OP & chitty is correct - AdBlue is a trade name for an entire system of packaging, storing, and using Diesel Exhaust Fluid, and one cannot "spray" nor "spill" such large quantities of DEF around a Passat.
      IMO, the "quick change" part of the dealership was trying to cheat, likely using an AdBlue bottle as a funnel & spilled some volume of DEF, then attempted to wipe it up w/rags, which only spread the uric acid further 'round the car.

      Now, how to clean DEF? It's an acid - thus use a base to neutralize (very light bleach/water combo), then a very mild cleaning compound w/lots of water, wiping down the entire area w/clean rags/towels.
      Once crystallized though, it's no longer an acid, so a very light acid compound (white vinegar & lots of water) or heavily diluted alcohol can be effective...

      Good luck!

      Once in crystallized form, does that mean the damage has already been done? In crystal form does it continue to react?

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      04-30-2012 09:37 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Once in crystallized form, does that mean the damage has already been done? In crystal form does it continue to react?
      All the cleaning is going to take a toll on the contaminated materials with no real guarantee that it is completely free of active Adblue. The only way to know for sure is to remove all contaminated materials, clean the exposed surfaces and install new materials. I would expect nothing less from a reputable dealer.

      I would also email VWofA the circumstances and the pictures to make sure this is well documented and does not stay within the dealership.

      Just my thought.
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    18. 04-30-2012 09:57 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Once in crystallized form, does that mean the damage has already been done? In crystal form does it continue to react?
      Yes. "Crystal" =/= "inert".

      Looking at your pics again I'd use a big stack of wet/damp towels, changing them often, and flood any hard to reach spot w/distilled water as there are just too many different materials in a car to check all for reaction to cleaners/solvents...

      FWIW, the problem is more visual than anything else, so once it's cleaned up I wouldn't worry - but I would give the dealership heck over this.

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      04-30-2012 10:14 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      lol... you have to breathe in, and breathe out sometimes. Keeps us from getting wrinkles
      lol!

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      04-30-2012 10:42 AM #45


      That looks like a lower LATCH point for attaching a child safety seat. Corrosive crystals all around the spot that keeps your loved ones safe ... nice. Hope the dealer does the right thing and gets you a new car.

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      04-30-2012 11:43 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      HOW THE HECK DOES THIS HAPPEN?!?!?!?
      Because many "service techs" are morons that should be working on riding mowers at the local hardware store.

      Quote Originally Posted by chittychittybangbang View Post
      noticed a lot of pics from my site here and wish to clarify a few points.

      Adblue bottles are SPILLPROOF. You cannot spill the contents unless someone took a bulk quantity and poured it all over the place. They also make SPILLPROOF hoses for bulk gallon containers.

      /mystery. Granted, I see the design could use some work but seriously, I cannot see someone spilling this stuff unless they have someone with lobster claw hands (it's a real birth defect so maybe I shouldn't joke) working in the back.
      Exactly, lazy-ass tech could care less about using the spill-proof transfer equipment.

      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      I totally understand how you feel and I can rationalize with you, but just realize that with a big purchase such as a car, they will never just take it back and give you another one. This isn't a burger joint. That's why lemon laws are in place.
      I'll beg to differ.

      In '03 I walked away from a new Passat to buy the one Japanese car I ever had, an Infinfti G20. It was a great car and unlike the Passat had a beautiful leather interior, airbags without the motorized belts, awesome shift and clutch feel, and um...a history of reliability with double the warranty.

      There was also a great rebate (something like $2500) on a group of cars that were described as having "acid rain" damage. After taking an extended look at a few of these cars, neither my ex or I could find anything wrong with the cars, and bought one (it was her DD).

      A couple of weeks later she took it to be detailed, and the owner of the shop pointed out that between the front bumper/valence, one of the mirrors, and the rest of the car...the car was painted three colors. Upon her getting home (highly adgitated) we disassembled a few things and put the car up on the storage lift and found some masking tape in a few places. As it turned out, "acid rain" was used to describe many kinds of damage inflicted at the port.

      Bottom line was that while writing to Nissan/Infinity produced a meager discount on a new car, writing to the CT Consumer Affairs dept and Attorney General's office got me a sit-down with the dealer principal within three days, and a week later I swapped the car we bought for an identical car, one model year newer by sighing some papers, no cash involved.

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      04-30-2012 12:49 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by brian81 View Post
      Because many "service techs" are morons that should be working on riding mowers at the local hardware store.



      Exactly, lazy-ass tech could care less about using the spill-proof transfer equipment.



      I'll beg to differ.

      In '03 I walked away from a new Passat to buy the one Japanese car I ever had, an Infinfti G20. It was a great car and unlike the Passat had a beautiful leather interior, airbags without the motorized belts, awesome shift and clutch feel, and um...a history of reliability with double the warranty.

      There was also a great rebate (something like $2500) on a group of cars that were described as having "acid rain" damage. After taking an extended look at a few of these cars, neither my ex or I could find anything wrong with the cars, and bought one (it was her DD).

      A couple of weeks later she took it to be detailed, and the owner of the shop pointed out that between the front bumper/valence, one of the mirrors, and the rest of the car...the car was painted three colors. Upon her getting home (highly adgitated) we disassembled a few things and put the car up on the storage lift and found some masking tape in a few places. As it turned out, "acid rain" was used to describe many kinds of damage inflicted at the port.

      Bottom line was that while writing to Nissan/Infinity produced a meager discount on a new car, writing to the CT Consumer Affairs dept and Attorney General's office got me a sit-down with the dealer principal within three days, and a week later I swapped the car we bought for an identical car, one model year newer by sighing some papers, no cash involved.
      That last part of your post is freakin awesome! Thats what those theives get for trying to rip off the public!

    23. 04-30-2012 02:48 PM #48
      Case # established. Hopefully this will guarantee the case will be ethically handled with the utmost care.

      I'm not understanding why VW is unable to get an engineer response from the factory on how spilled AdBlue will impact exposed parts in the long term and can the vehicle truley be put back together as done from the factory?

      These are the people I need feedback from at VW. It seems VW is depending on dealer techs to do this role. The dealer techs may have conflicting agendas as I always felt they are to complete work at the lowest cost, and supposedly, without impacting quality. This is not isolated to one brand, but I think all brands are like that.

      Not sure if photos will be taken while dissassembly for my own record even if I requested it.

      In a mess up like this, it feels like they would attempt the 'clean-up' versus replacing the customer's new car. Although this has not happened yet, I have a concern this is how the case will be approached at the dealer level. Another concern is VW's CustomerCare will be left in the dark at what's really happening as they are relying on the dealer service staff to be the manufacturer's eyes and ears.

      Perhaps this is just me being pessimistic.
      Last edited by Imola Yellow GTi; 04-30-2012 at 03:13 PM.

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      04-30-2012 03:05 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by brian81 View Post
      Bottom line was that while writing to Nissan/Infinity produced a meager discount on a new car, writing to the CT Consumer Affairs dept and Attorney General's office got me a sit-down with the dealer principal within three days, and a week later I swapped the car we bought for an identical car, one model year newer by sighing some papers, no cash involved.
      But how long have you had the car? Was this within 90 days? If you scare them enough, sure any company will do anything to keep their relations up. But the difference is, they sold you a defective car and didn't inform you of the damage outside of a vague, "Acid Rain" response. In the OP's case, a tech f'ed up his stuff. He wasn't sold a defective car, and they would have no legal obligation to replace his purchase. That's all I'm saying. But different situations call for different results.
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    25. 04-30-2012 03:46 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Case # established. Hopefully this will guarantee the case will be ethically handled with the utmost care.
      Ok, VW Corp. is involved - but your issue is w/the dealer, not VW.
      I'm not understanding why VW is unable to get an engineer response from the factory on how spilled AdBlue will impact exposed parts in the long term and can
      the vehicle truly be put back together as done from the factory?
      DEF use is still very new - the original timelines were moved up by legislators, not engineers.
      These are the people I need feedback from at VW.
      When they know, you'll know.

      It seems VW is depending on dealer techs to do this role. The dealer techs may have conflicting agendas as I always felt they are to complete work at the
      lowest cost, and supposedly, without impacting quality. This is not isolated to
      one brand, but I think all brands are like that.
      ?? again, "VW" didn't do this - your dealer did.

      Not sure if photos will be taken while disassembly for my own record even if
      I requested it. In a mess up like this, it feels like they would attempt the 'clean-up'
      versus replacing the customer's new car. Although this has not happened yet, I
      have a concern this is how the case will be approached at the dealer level.
      Another concern is VW's CustomerCare will be left in the dark at what's really
      happening as they are relying on the dealer service staff to be the
      manufacturer's eyes and ears.
      You're confusing the automaker w/the dealer - it's not VW's "problem" in identifying the solutions to problems not of their making. That being said, I'm fairly certain VW (like all makers) is monitoring DEF spills, reactions, and cleanups.

      Don't forget - spillage was one of the factors in developing the AdBlue system (I still **** when people call DEF "AdBlue" - it's like saying ATM machine) - including the various fittings & fillers. It took real effort by someone at the dealership to circumvent the system & spill fluid around your vehicle (thus my suspicion that they were trying to use a cut up AdBlue bottle as a funnel for some generic DEF - and found out the hard way that idea was a$$ blindingly stupid).

      So, if this were my Passat and it were brand new, and if they spilled that much DEF and clumsily attempted to wipe it away (which would just spread it around), and if they are unable to clean every part to my satisfaction then I would be contacting the GM @ a new Passat. But that's just me. Best of luck in whatever path you choose.

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