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    Thread: AdBlue spill... WTF... just noticed today...

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      04-29-2012 12:28 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      I totally understand how you feel and I can rationalize with you, but just realize that with a big purchase such as a car, they will never just take it back and give you another one. This isn't a burger joint. That's why lemon laws are in place.

      But also keep in mind, in this situation it wasn't the car that did anything it was the tech who spilled it, and didn't bother to clean it up, and let it spill into the passenger compartment. The warranty is there for these kinds of things. And as long as it's documented, if any long-term effects come of it, Imola Yellow GTi, can have them fix (or can sue them successfully) when he's out of warranty.
      lol. I know I know, you're right. Youre so PC! lol! It would just irk me everytime I got into the car knowing that there no way of completely cleaning it up, and not knowing the long term effects of being exposed to the crystals/chemical. I would still beeyotch and complain and try to get a new vehicle out of it first, then if still no go, settle for a super extended warranty!

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      04-29-2012 02:43 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by TypeRod View Post
      lol. I know I know, you're right. Youre so PC! lol! It would just irk me everytime I got into the car knowing that there no way of completely cleaning it up, and not knowing the long term effects of being exposed to the crystals/chemical. I would still beeyotch and complain and try to get a new vehicle out of it first, then if still no go, settle for a super extended warranty!
      lol... you have to breathe in, and breathe out sometimes. Keeps us from getting wrinkles
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      04-29-2012 03:28 PM #38
      Hi Imola Yellow GTi:

      As a 2012 VW Passat tdi owner myself--I think I can speak for all owners on here: WE HATE THE SERVICE PERSON that did this to your car.

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      04-29-2012 03:32 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      lol... you have to breathe in, and breathe out sometimes. Keeps us from getting wrinkles
      Even THIS doesn't help all the time! Yeah, I'm an old fart!
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    5. 04-30-2012 07:49 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by chittychittybangbang View Post
      noticed a lot of pics from my site here and wish to clarify a few points.
      Adblue bottles are SPILLPROOF. You cannot spill the contents unless someone took a bulk quantity and poured it all over the place. They also make SPILLPROOF hoses for bulk gallon containers
      /mystery. .
      Back to the OP & chitty is correct - AdBlue is a trade name for an entire system of packaging, storing, and using Diesel Exhaust Fluid, and one cannot "spray" nor "spill" such large quantities of DEF around a Passat.
      IMO, the "quick change" part of the dealership was trying to cheat, likely using an AdBlue bottle as a funnel & spilled some volume of DEF, then attempted to wipe it up w/rags, which only spread the uric acid further 'round the car.

      Now, how to clean DEF? It's an acid - thus use a base to neutralize (very light bleach/water combo), then a very mild cleaning compound w/lots of water, wiping down the entire area w/clean rags/towels.
      Once crystallized though, it's no longer an acid, so a very light acid compound (white vinegar & lots of water) or heavily diluted alcohol can be effective...

      Good luck!

    6. 04-30-2012 08:03 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Back to the OP & chitty is correct - AdBlue is a trade name for an entire system of packaging, storing, and using Diesel Exhaust Fluid, and one cannot "spray" nor "spill" such large quantities of DEF around a Passat.
      IMO, the "quick change" part of the dealership was trying to cheat, likely using an AdBlue bottle as a funnel & spilled some volume of DEF, then attempted to wipe it up w/rags, which only spread the uric acid further 'round the car.

      Now, how to clean DEF? It's an acid - thus use a base to neutralize (very light bleach/water combo), then a very mild cleaning compound w/lots of water, wiping down the entire area w/clean rags/towels.
      Once crystallized though, it's no longer an acid, so a very light acid compound (white vinegar & lots of water) or heavily diluted alcohol can be effective...

      Good luck!

      Once in crystallized form, does that mean the damage has already been done? In crystal form does it continue to react?

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      04-30-2012 09:37 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Once in crystallized form, does that mean the damage has already been done? In crystal form does it continue to react?
      All the cleaning is going to take a toll on the contaminated materials with no real guarantee that it is completely free of active Adblue. The only way to know for sure is to remove all contaminated materials, clean the exposed surfaces and install new materials. I would expect nothing less from a reputable dealer.

      I would also email VWofA the circumstances and the pictures to make sure this is well documented and does not stay within the dealership.

      Just my thought.
      TDI, the only reason to own a Volkswagen.

    8. 04-30-2012 09:57 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Once in crystallized form, does that mean the damage has already been done? In crystal form does it continue to react?
      Yes. "Crystal" =/= "inert".

      Looking at your pics again I'd use a big stack of wet/damp towels, changing them often, and flood any hard to reach spot w/distilled water as there are just too many different materials in a car to check all for reaction to cleaners/solvents...

      FWIW, the problem is more visual than anything else, so once it's cleaned up I wouldn't worry - but I would give the dealership heck over this.

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      04-30-2012 10:14 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      lol... you have to breathe in, and breathe out sometimes. Keeps us from getting wrinkles
      lol!

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      04-30-2012 10:42 AM #45


      That looks like a lower LATCH point for attaching a child safety seat. Corrosive crystals all around the spot that keeps your loved ones safe ... nice. Hope the dealer does the right thing and gets you a new car.

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      04-30-2012 11:43 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      HOW THE HECK DOES THIS HAPPEN?!?!?!?
      Because many "service techs" are morons that should be working on riding mowers at the local hardware store.

      Quote Originally Posted by chittychittybangbang View Post
      noticed a lot of pics from my site here and wish to clarify a few points.

      Adblue bottles are SPILLPROOF. You cannot spill the contents unless someone took a bulk quantity and poured it all over the place. They also make SPILLPROOF hoses for bulk gallon containers.

      /mystery. Granted, I see the design could use some work but seriously, I cannot see someone spilling this stuff unless they have someone with lobster claw hands (it's a real birth defect so maybe I shouldn't joke) working in the back.
      Exactly, lazy-ass tech could care less about using the spill-proof transfer equipment.

      Quote Originally Posted by capclassicv2 View Post
      I totally understand how you feel and I can rationalize with you, but just realize that with a big purchase such as a car, they will never just take it back and give you another one. This isn't a burger joint. That's why lemon laws are in place.
      I'll beg to differ.

      In '03 I walked away from a new Passat to buy the one Japanese car I ever had, an Infinfti G20. It was a great car and unlike the Passat had a beautiful leather interior, airbags without the motorized belts, awesome shift and clutch feel, and um...a history of reliability with double the warranty.

      There was also a great rebate (something like $2500) on a group of cars that were described as having "acid rain" damage. After taking an extended look at a few of these cars, neither my ex or I could find anything wrong with the cars, and bought one (it was her DD).

      A couple of weeks later she took it to be detailed, and the owner of the shop pointed out that between the front bumper/valence, one of the mirrors, and the rest of the car...the car was painted three colors. Upon her getting home (highly adgitated) we disassembled a few things and put the car up on the storage lift and found some masking tape in a few places. As it turned out, "acid rain" was used to describe many kinds of damage inflicted at the port.

      Bottom line was that while writing to Nissan/Infinity produced a meager discount on a new car, writing to the CT Consumer Affairs dept and Attorney General's office got me a sit-down with the dealer principal within three days, and a week later I swapped the car we bought for an identical car, one model year newer by sighing some papers, no cash involved.

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      04-30-2012 12:49 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by brian81 View Post
      Because many "service techs" are morons that should be working on riding mowers at the local hardware store.



      Exactly, lazy-ass tech could care less about using the spill-proof transfer equipment.



      I'll beg to differ.

      In '03 I walked away from a new Passat to buy the one Japanese car I ever had, an Infinfti G20. It was a great car and unlike the Passat had a beautiful leather interior, airbags without the motorized belts, awesome shift and clutch feel, and um...a history of reliability with double the warranty.

      There was also a great rebate (something like $2500) on a group of cars that were described as having "acid rain" damage. After taking an extended look at a few of these cars, neither my ex or I could find anything wrong with the cars, and bought one (it was her DD).

      A couple of weeks later she took it to be detailed, and the owner of the shop pointed out that between the front bumper/valence, one of the mirrors, and the rest of the car...the car was painted three colors. Upon her getting home (highly adgitated) we disassembled a few things and put the car up on the storage lift and found some masking tape in a few places. As it turned out, "acid rain" was used to describe many kinds of damage inflicted at the port.

      Bottom line was that while writing to Nissan/Infinity produced a meager discount on a new car, writing to the CT Consumer Affairs dept and Attorney General's office got me a sit-down with the dealer principal within three days, and a week later I swapped the car we bought for an identical car, one model year newer by sighing some papers, no cash involved.
      That last part of your post is freakin awesome! Thats what those theives get for trying to rip off the public!

    13. 04-30-2012 02:48 PM #48
      Case # established. Hopefully this will guarantee the case will be ethically handled with the utmost care.

      I'm not understanding why VW is unable to get an engineer response from the factory on how spilled AdBlue will impact exposed parts in the long term and can the vehicle truley be put back together as done from the factory?

      These are the people I need feedback from at VW. It seems VW is depending on dealer techs to do this role. The dealer techs may have conflicting agendas as I always felt they are to complete work at the lowest cost, and supposedly, without impacting quality. This is not isolated to one brand, but I think all brands are like that.

      Not sure if photos will be taken while dissassembly for my own record even if I requested it.

      In a mess up like this, it feels like they would attempt the 'clean-up' versus replacing the customer's new car. Although this has not happened yet, I have a concern this is how the case will be approached at the dealer level. Another concern is VW's CustomerCare will be left in the dark at what's really happening as they are relying on the dealer service staff to be the manufacturer's eyes and ears.

      Perhaps this is just me being pessimistic.
      Last edited by Imola Yellow GTi; 04-30-2012 at 03:13 PM.

    14. Member capclassicv2's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 03:05 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by brian81 View Post
      Bottom line was that while writing to Nissan/Infinity produced a meager discount on a new car, writing to the CT Consumer Affairs dept and Attorney General's office got me a sit-down with the dealer principal within three days, and a week later I swapped the car we bought for an identical car, one model year newer by sighing some papers, no cash involved.
      But how long have you had the car? Was this within 90 days? If you scare them enough, sure any company will do anything to keep their relations up. But the difference is, they sold you a defective car and didn't inform you of the damage outside of a vague, "Acid Rain" response. In the OP's case, a tech f'ed up his stuff. He wasn't sold a defective car, and they would have no legal obligation to replace his purchase. That's all I'm saying. But different situations call for different results.
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    15. 04-30-2012 03:46 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Case # established. Hopefully this will guarantee the case will be ethically handled with the utmost care.
      Ok, VW Corp. is involved - but your issue is w/the dealer, not VW.
      I'm not understanding why VW is unable to get an engineer response from the factory on how spilled AdBlue will impact exposed parts in the long term and can
      the vehicle truly be put back together as done from the factory?
      DEF use is still very new - the original timelines were moved up by legislators, not engineers.
      These are the people I need feedback from at VW.
      When they know, you'll know.

      It seems VW is depending on dealer techs to do this role. The dealer techs may have conflicting agendas as I always felt they are to complete work at the
      lowest cost, and supposedly, without impacting quality. This is not isolated to
      one brand, but I think all brands are like that.
      ?? again, "VW" didn't do this - your dealer did.

      Not sure if photos will be taken while disassembly for my own record even if
      I requested it. In a mess up like this, it feels like they would attempt the 'clean-up'
      versus replacing the customer's new car. Although this has not happened yet, I
      have a concern this is how the case will be approached at the dealer level.
      Another concern is VW's CustomerCare will be left in the dark at what's really
      happening as they are relying on the dealer service staff to be the
      manufacturer's eyes and ears.
      You're confusing the automaker w/the dealer - it's not VW's "problem" in identifying the solutions to problems not of their making. That being said, I'm fairly certain VW (like all makers) is monitoring DEF spills, reactions, and cleanups.

      Don't forget - spillage was one of the factors in developing the AdBlue system (I still **** when people call DEF "AdBlue" - it's like saying ATM machine) - including the various fittings & fillers. It took real effort by someone at the dealership to circumvent the system & spill fluid around your vehicle (thus my suspicion that they were trying to use a cut up AdBlue bottle as a funnel for some generic DEF - and found out the hard way that idea was a$$ blindingly stupid).

      So, if this were my Passat and it were brand new, and if they spilled that much DEF and clumsily attempted to wipe it away (which would just spread it around), and if they are unable to clean every part to my satisfaction then I would be contacting the GM @ a new Passat. But that's just me. Best of luck in whatever path you choose.

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      04-30-2012 03:51 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Perhaps this is just me being pessimistic.
      I would be extremely pessimistic.

      I have to wonder how many other 2012 Passat TDI owners have had this problem, I can't believe the OP is the only one.
      TDI, the only reason to own a Volkswagen.

    17. 04-30-2012 04:07 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by jkinzel View Post
      I would be extremely pessimistic.

      I have to wonder how many other 2012 Passat TDI owners have had this problem, I can't believe the OP is the only one.
      What "problem"? Really, really, a$$blindingly stupid dealer employee(s)?

    18. 04-30-2012 06:55 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      What "problem"? Really, really, a$$blindingly stupid dealer employee(s)?
      i wonder if this doesn't occur at the chattanooga plant during manufacturing? before it's loaded onto the truck?

      ALSO... there was a case in the news recently (few months back) where a train car full of passats FELL OVER, and those cars were "remanufactured" and sold.... perhaps the OP got one of those cars?

      my car had the rear seats not locked into place, although to eyeball them you would think they were. first time i hit the brakes really hard, SMACK! the rear seats came flying forward. i wonder if the dealership did that, or the plant? and imagine if i had rear passengers back there??

    19. 04-30-2012 07:05 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by teknokrat View Post
      i wonder if this doesn't occur at the chattanooga plant during manufacturing? before it's loaded onto the truck?
      Sincerely doubtful as they use the AdBlue system.

      ALSO... there was a case in the news recently (few months back) where a train car full of passats FELL OVER, and those cars were "remanufactured" and sold....
      perhaps the OP got one of those cars?
      That was a grand total of 10 cars in late January. Not the OP's car

      my car had the rear seats not locked into place, although to eyeball them you
      would think they were. first time i hit the brakes really hard, SMACK! the rear
      seats came flying forward. i wonder if the dealership did that, or the plant?
      and imagine if i had rear passengers back there??
      ?? Are you saying the entire rear seat assembly was not attatched and that PDI never caught it? If so, wow.

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      04-30-2012 07:53 PM #55
      Dealerships represent the manufacturer. It is where 95% of VW customers interact with and communicate with VW.

      IMO dealer problem = VW problem. Consumers should expect that any dealer represents the brand fully as it is their point of relationship with VW.

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      04-30-2012 08:55 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Incrementalg View Post
      Dealerships represent the manufacturer. It is where 95% of VW customers interact with and communicate with VW.

      IMO dealer problem = VW problem. Consumers should expect that any dealer represents the brand fully as it is their point of relationship with VW.
      I agree 100%
      TDI, the only reason to own a Volkswagen.

    22. 04-30-2012 10:11 PM #57
      I googled "is adblue corrosive?" The second link had this. It took two seconds.


      http://www.daf.eu/SiteCollectionDocu..._the_facts.pdf

      "What if I spill AdBlue?
      Don't worry. You can rinse
      it off with water.
      With small spillages you may see white crystals forming after
      a while but they are non-corrosive and can be wiped away."

    23. 04-30-2012 11:41 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by ODIS View Post
      I googled "is adblue corrosive?" The second link had this. It took two seconds.


      http://www.daf.eu/SiteCollectionDocu..._the_facts.pdf

      "What if I spill AdBlue?
      Don't worry. You can rinse
      it off with water.
      With small spillages you may see white crystals forming after
      a while but they are non-corrosive and can be wiped away."
      Check the BP link as well. FYI it has an alkaline of 9.0.

      Commercial truck maker, DAF, downplays the fact that Adblue should not come in contact with metal. It can be no issue if handled right away. In my case, I was not informed and found out 5 days afterwards. Here's another take on AdBlue from an AdBlue brand. http://www.bluecat.ie/FAQ/AdBlue_FAQ...corrosive.html
      Last edited by Imola Yellow GTi; 04-30-2012 at 11:51 PM.

    24. 05-01-2012 07:33 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Incrementalg View Post
      Dealerships represent the manufacturer. It is where 95% of VW customers interact with and communicate with VW.
      More like 99%. So?

      IMO dealer problem = VW problem. Consumers should expect that any dealer represents the brand fully as it is their point of relationship with VW.
      Again, so what? Do you expect someone from VWGoA to show up & fire the employee? Search the "quick lube" bays for evidence of AdBlue tampering? Lean over the neck of every dealer mechanic in America 24/7?

      I'm no fan of VW's (in America) antiquated Dealer Agreements, but this isn't a "VW" corporate problem - the dealer screwed the pooch & now needs to make good.

    25. 05-01-2012 08:40 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      I'm no fan of VW's (in America) antiquated Dealer Agreements, but this isn't a "VW" corporate problem - the dealer screwed the pooch & now needs to make good.
      Hopefully with Corporate involved it will put pressure on the Dealer to do the right thing. If this car is important as VWoA makes it sound, VWoA has every interest on keeping the Dealer's resolution correct and on course.

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      05-01-2012 10:42 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      More like 99%. So?



      Again, so what? Do you expect someone from VWGoA to show up & fire the employee? Search the "quick lube" bays for evidence of AdBlue tampering? Lean over the neck of every dealer mechanic in America 24/7?

      I'm no fan of VW's (in America) antiquated Dealer Agreements, but this isn't a "VW" corporate problem - the dealer screwed the pooch & now needs to make good.
      I don't disagree with you the dealer needs to make good. I'm with you 100% on that. I'm merely saying that from a consumer standpoint, VW dealerships, VW corporate, VW finance and VW manufacturing are not separate entities. Mishaps and/or problems on any one of these fronts is a VW problem.

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      05-01-2012 12:13 PM #62
      I'm sure this a pipe dream, but I would hope the leadership of VW will take this issue by the horns and do something about it.

      This is not good public relations for VW and I would expect that this incident and this thread will be brought to the attention of the higher-ups in VWofA.

      I would then expect VWofA to send a representative to the offending dealership to find out what happened and how to keep it from ever happening again. Did the person who spilled the DEF have proper training? Was a short cut taken? Was it mechanical failure that caused the spill?

      As a result of the investigation I would hope VW realizes the inherent flaw of their design and changes it to an external filling location such as the Audi deign.

      On the 2012 Volkswagen Passat what other vital fluids are filled from the inside of the car? You can blame the dealership all you want, but I believe VW needs to step up and take responsibility for this because of their poor design created by engineers or bean counters and authorized for production.
      Last edited by jkinzel; 05-01-2012 at 05:19 PM.
      TDI, the only reason to own a Volkswagen.

    28. 05-01-2012 06:21 PM #63
      Only AdBlue is filled inside the car.

      Car is at the dealer.

    29. 05-01-2012 07:25 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by jkinzel View Post
      I'm sure this a pipe dream, but I would hope the leadership of VW will take this issue by the horns and do something about it.
      What, exactly? Oh goody...

      This is not good public relations for VW and I would expect that this incident
      and this thread will be brought to the attention of the higher-ups in VWofA.
      News flash - it's bad PR for the dealership most of all. What should VW do - string the Manager up, fire the techs, and burn the building to the ground?

      I would then expect VWofA to send a representative to the offending dealership to find out what happened and how to keep it from ever happening again. Did the person who spilled the DEF have proper training? Was a short cut taken? Was it mechanical failure that caused the spill?
      Investigate? Sure. Make sure it never happens again? Really? How - put someone over the shoulder of ever tech in every dealership in the US?

      As a result of the investigation I would hope VW realizes the inherent flaw of
      their design and changes it to an external filling location such as the Audi
      deign.
      And that would prevent what in this case? You do realize that if a tech spilled that much DEF @ the filler cap area one would still run the risk of spilled fluid in & around various seals & other components.

      On the 2012 Volkswagen Passat what other vital fluids are filled from the inside of the car? You can blame the dealership all you want, but I believe VW needs
      to step up and take responsibility for this because of their poor design created
      by engineers or bean counters and authorized for production.
      You can believe whatever you wish. In reality world, the AdBlue system was designed for several automakers to minimized the chances of what happened. FWIW, if someone tried a bulk fill in my Touareg the results would be similar - along w/a number of other DEF equipped vehicles on the market.

    30. 05-01-2012 08:35 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Sincerely doubtful as they use the AdBlue system.



      That was a grand total of 10 cars in late January. Not the OP's car


      ?? Are you saying the entire rear seat assembly was not attatched and that PDI never caught it? If so, wow.
      no i was talking about the latch that holds the seats in place, for folding the seats down to access the trunk space. the car was given to me with the seats unlatched, but they LOOKED latched. they weren't broken, just unlatched.

    31. 05-01-2012 09:04 PM #66
      For some reason CustomerCare has been informed that this is a detail due to an AdBlue spill. Detail? Really? Is 'detail' used to describe clean up?

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      05-01-2012 10:29 PM #67
      Sounds like they're using the term detail as in wash and detail the car?
      Last edited by Incrementalg; 05-01-2012 at 10:33 PM.

    33. 05-01-2012 11:45 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      For some reason CustomerCare has been informed that this is a detail due to an AdBlue spill. Detail? Really? Is 'detail' used to describe clean up?
      Generally, yes, that's the term used for a more than casual cleanup. Not "detail" as in show prep, but think of it as more than Winston Wolf...

    34. 05-02-2012 06:33 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Generally, yes, that's the term used for a more than casual cleanup. Not "detail" as in show prep, but think of it as more than Winston Wolf...
      "alright gentlemen, don't start sucking each other's dicks just yet...."

      and he drove an acura nsx, very nice.

    35. Member gwernerjr's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 12th, 2011
      Location
      Richmond VA
      Posts
      692
      Vehicles
      2013 CC 6MT
      05-02-2012 12:03 PM #70
      VR6 > TDI

      You guys continue to make my argument for me

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