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    Thread: AdBlue spill... WTF... just noticed today...

    1. 05-02-2012 01:00 PM #71
      People lets not get carried away here.

      The dealer is a good dealer. They have taken care of my GTi with no issues. Just because one tech goofed (and we still don't know how someone can botch something as simple as refilling AdBlue) does not mean the dealer and its service staff are terrible.

      We all agree some refinement on the refill design should be done to make the design more forgiving. Either go with the Touareg or Q7 design. The brand is a good brand. The car is a good car.

      As long as this is documented and if issues occur further down the road, my isolated case will be handled appropiately by the dealer (if needed by me) every step of the way.

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      05-02-2012 01:38 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      People lets not get carried away here.

      The dealer is a good dealer. They have taken care of my GTi with no issues. Just because one tech goofed (and we still don't know how someone can botch something as simple as refilling AdBlue) does not mean the dealer and its service staff are terrible.

      We all agree some refinement on the refill design should be done to make the design more forgiving. Either go with the Touareg or Q7 design. The brand is a good brand. The car is a good car.

      As long as this is documented and if issues occur further down the road, my isolated case will be handled appropiately by the dealer (if needed by me) every step of the way.
      This is a good post. This thread should be a poster on the Internet disease whereby one screwup by one individual (in this case, the tech doing the AdBlue refill) becomes some giant issue that should result in new cars all around, a congressional inquiry, etc. or else The End of the World as We Know It. As my sister-in-law says, "Get a grip."

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      05-02-2012 04:19 PM #73
      Everyone remember this thread..... if he keeps this car until the "wheels fall off", this WILL become an issue! So, if not for him, it'll be the sucker that buys it next!
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    4. 05-02-2012 05:06 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      The dealer is a good dealer. They have taken care of my GTi with no issues. Just because one tech goofed (and we still don't know how someone can botch something as simple as refilling AdBlue) does not mean the dealer and its service staff are terrible.

      We all agree some refinement on the refill design should be done to make the design more forgiving. Either go with the Touareg or Q7 design. The brand is a good brand. The car is a good car..
      The fill design is fine, and despite what some here seem to think, the Touareg fill is done inside the vehicle.

    5. 05-02-2012 05:30 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      The fill design is fine, and despite what some here seem to think, the Touareg fill is done inside the vehicle.
      Look at the Touareg design closely again. Access cover allows you to access filler hole outside of car. Any spill is isolated to the exterior. It's basically a round hole cut out in the body. Passat has no where for spills to evac.

    6. 05-03-2012 12:24 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Look at the Touareg design closely again. Access cover allows you to access filler hole outside of car. Any spill is isolated to the exterior. It's basically a round hole cut out in the body. Passat has no where for spills to evac.
      ??? The filler is under the spare tire, with any possible spill inside of the 'egg. I have one, and have no idea where you're getting the thought that the fill is somehow external...

      Anyway, best of luck.
      Last edited by 2VWatatime; 05-03-2012 at 12:27 AM.

    7. 05-03-2012 09:03 AM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      ??? The filler is under the spare tire, with any possible spill inside of the 'egg. I have one, and have no idea where you're getting the thought that the fill is somehow external...
      It's not like this?



      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Anyway, best of luck.
      Thanks. I hope all goes well. Really am lost how they will check the paint as most owner manuals tell you to rinse it out with water right away in the case of a spill.

    8. 05-03-2012 01:33 PM #78
      [QUOTE=Imola Yellow GTi;77214229]It's not like this?[QUOTE]

      Yes - and please note that is inside the 'egg, under the rear cover. When filling, the bottle & mechanism are inside the vehicle, and any spill will go into the "well" under the spare tire - again, inside, not outside of the 'egg. In my case, a spill could be worse, as there is unfinished galavanized steel - and DEF is a known corrosive on galv. steel. I'd prefer a fully external fill as well, but AFAIK the Q is the only fully external AdBlue filler on all brands...


      Thanks. I hope all goes well. Really am lost how they will check the paint as most owner manuals tell you to rinse it out with water right away in the case of a spill.

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      05-03-2012 04:28 PM #79
      [QUOTE=2VWatatime;77218683][QUOTE=Imola Yellow GTi;77214229]It's not like this?

      Yes - and please note that is inside the 'egg, under the rear cover. When filling, the bottle & mechanism are inside the vehicle, and any spill will go into the "well" under the spare tire - again, inside, not outside of the 'egg. In my case, a spill could be worse, as there is unfinished galavanized steel - and DEF is a known corrosive on galv. steel. I'd prefer a fully external fill as well, but AFAIK the Q is the only fully external AdBlue filler on all brands...
      Is the well under the spare vented? ie - does it have a drain to let out any fluid that might collect there? I haven't pulled the spare out of my new Passat yet.
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    10. Member cjmoy's Avatar
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      05-03-2012 04:36 PM #80
      [QUOTE=2VWatatime;77218683][QUOTE=Imola Yellow GTi;77214229]It's not like this?

      Yes - and please note that is inside the 'egg, under the rear cover. When filling, the bottle & mechanism are inside the vehicle, and any spill will go into the "well" under the spare tire - again, inside, not outside of the 'egg. In my case, a spill could be worse, as there is unfinished galavanized steel - and DEF is a known corrosive on galv. steel. I'd prefer a fully external fill as well, but AFAIK the Q is the only fully external AdBlue filler on all brands...
      The filler for my 335d is fully external. It is behind a round cutout in the driver's side rear bumper cover.

    11. 05-03-2012 09:21 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by BudPytko
      Is the well under the spare vented? ie - does it have a drain to let out any fluid that might collect there? I haven't pulled the spare out of my new Passat yet.
      I already pulled the spare to take some pics on the first page. Could not locate drain or vents. No place for spill to evac + tech mess up = this thread + car requiring major 'detail'. Don't know longevity on paint, electrical, and parts exposed to AdBlue.

    12. Member cheapa55TDI's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 08:51 PM #82
      So..... I got the AdBlue warning recently and apparently the dealer who did the 1st maintenance at 10k did not add it. I have about 16,500 miles now and I took it in at local dealer and had them refill. Guess what I saw when I got home. Fun. I'm afraid to lift up the mat. I don't think it's bad but they need a better method to refill. This is ridiculous!


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      05-05-2012 11:18 PM #83
      What container is supposed to be used when filling? Maybe service guys are taking short cuts with containers?

    14. Member cheapa55TDI's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 11:38 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by Incrementalg View Post
      What container is supposed to be used when filling? Maybe service guys are taking short cuts with containers?
      when I was talking to the service advisor (also part owner of the whole VW/Hyundai/Kia dealership group), he showed me the small bottle (looked like almost 1.5-2L). But he also said they come in big jugs that they need "funnels" to pour it in. I bet that's how they do it and it's messy. I can't imagine bringing up a 5 gallon jug of AdBlue and pouring it in with a funnel. And how do they know when it's full? when it overflows? Mine took 3.5 gallons of AdBlue.

    15. 05-05-2012 11:55 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by cheapa55TDI View Post
      So..... I got the AdBlue warning recently and apparently the dealer who did the 1st maintenance at 10k did not add it. I have about 16,500 miles now and I took it in at local dealer and had them refill. Guess what I saw when I got home. Fun. I'm afraid to lift up the mat. I don't think it's bad but they need a better method to refill. This is ridiculous!
      You actually let them do a refill after what has come to light from this post?
      "If stupid got us into this mess, how come it can't get us out?"

    16. Member cheapa55TDI's Avatar
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      05-06-2012 12:23 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by But Officer.... View Post
      You actually let them do a refill after what has come to light from this post?
      haha, what was I supposed to do? Ask them to give me the fluid so that I could do it myself? I sure wasn't going to pay for it.

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      05-06-2012 08:52 AM #87
      And again I ask Volkswagen; How is adding required chemicals through the interior of a car a good idea?
      TDI, the only reason to own a Volkswagen.

    18. 05-06-2012 03:24 PM #88
      If using bulk AdBlue, it has it's own elevated support with spill proof connection.

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      05-06-2012 05:36 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      If using bulk AdBlue, it has it's own elevated support with spill proof connection.
      Yeah, right!!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by Andy@Ross-Tech.com View Post
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    20. 05-06-2012 11:22 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by BudPytko View Post
      Yeah, right!!!!
      Do you realize that pic is from my car? I was merely sharing a fact if done by the book with a bulk container it would have a special support and a spill proof connection. Whatever the tech did was not by the book due to the lack of training. AdBlue at my dealer going forward will be done by one of the head techs.

    21. 05-07-2012 12:47 AM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by jkinzel View Post
      And again I ask Volkswagen; How is adding required chemicals through the interior of a car a good idea?
      Same way it's done @ Benz - by using the correct equipment.

      Dealers taking shortcuts = problems, regardless of vehicle system.

    22. 05-07-2012 09:20 AM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Same way it's done @ Benz - by using the correct equipment.
      Agreed. That's how it's done on the ML350BT we used to have.

    23. 05-15-2012 03:11 PM #93
      An update.

      The car was 'detailed' and returned to me on the 3rd or 4th, but upon inspection at home, noticed the crystals were reforming around the LATCH and seatbelt anchor points. The dealer pictures did show area with carpet removed and cleaned. This stuff loves moisture, any residue will react to moisture and crystallize again once moisture evaporates.

      Car went back to the dealer on the 8th for a 're-detailing' and this time area was left uncovered to reveal any residue not picked up from the 're-detailing'. Car returned again on 11th.

      So far it's fine. However, while in the shop, the car was scanned and dealer identified KESSY error in driver handle. Parts ordered and new handle will be painted. I never knew the handles had electronics built right into the molding?!?!?


      Side item, sat. radio has become notorious in the past month. I had a loaner CC with sat. radio and it had excellent sat. reception. Did notice the nav. screen showing error at one time, but am not sure if it is related.

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      05-16-2012 05:43 AM #94
      I hope all the folks with this issue have posted it up to the NHTSA site and a tech bulletin requested on this for an alert/recall/fix

      http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/

      Quote Originally Posted by BudPytko View Post
      Yeah, at this point I think I'd accept a NEW car from VW! Or a replacement of ALL affected parts AND a LONG extended warranty.

      Maybe contacting a lawyer if the above doesn't happen.

    25. 05-16-2012 07:16 AM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by salsaguy View Post
      I hope all the folks with this issue have posted it up to the NHTSA site and a tech bulletin requested on this for an alert/recall/fix

      http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/
      ?? Recalls are for specific safety defects - not dealers spilling things.

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      05-17-2012 04:34 AM #96
      As a minimum VW should send an All Dealer/Service Dept Alert to all service dept mgrs to alert them of the proper fill methods / process for AdBlue and the preventive measures that need to be taken to avoid any chemicals getting into customer cars . proper training was not done or enforced

      if one dealership did it wrong its a guarantee others will as well, esp if they are trying to save time/money and cut corners

      it needs to be addressed globally or else the VW service reputation will be damaged even more.

      cleanup seems impossible no matter how "good" of a job they claim to do

      while the design cant be fixed now it should be fixed in the next version of the car
      Last edited by salsaguy; 05-17-2012 at 04:35 AM. Reason: typeo

    27. 05-17-2012 08:08 AM #97
      ^^
      VW did. Not only did VW provide training, they offer single use & bulk AdBlue fillers, all designed to properly handle the product and make it idiot proof.
      Sadly, this dealer decided to make a better idiot.

      This is no different than a tech over torquing a spark plug - what are you going to do, rail on VW to change the plug? Don't be silly - the AdBlue design is fine.

      Back to the OP - how are the results so far? FWIW, the only way to clean uric acid crystals is to blot w/wet cloth (NOT WIPE) and treat w/an enzyme (pet stain cleaner) then blot w/hydrogen peroxide...

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      05-17-2012 08:39 AM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      ^^
      VW did. Not only did VW provide training, they offer single use & bulk AdBlue fillers, all designed to properly handle the product and make it idiot proof.
      Sadly, this dealer decided to make a better idiot.

      This is no different than a tech over torquing a spark plug - what are you going to do, rail on VW to change the plug? Don't be silly - the AdBlue design is fine.

      Back to the OP - how are the results so far? FWIW, the only way to clean uric acid crystals is to blot w/wet cloth (NOT WIPE) and treat w/an enzyme (pet stain cleaner) then blot w/hydrogen peroxide...
      If the Adblue system was fine this thread would not exist. It needs to be an external fill. True, it will not stop people from doing stupid things, but it will make the clean-up easier.

      Your comment about a “better idiot” brings to mind a quote by Engineering Professor Edward Wenk of the UofW:

      “You can hedge against Ignorance, Error, Blunder, Mischief and even Hubris, but the capacity for Stupidity is Infinite.”

      TDI, the only reason to own a Volkswagen.

    29. 05-17-2012 09:07 AM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Back to the OP - how are the results so far? FWIW, the only way to clean uric acid crystals is to blot w/wet cloth (NOT WIPE) and treat w/an enzyme (pet stain cleaner) then blot w/hydrogen peroxide...
      Wiping down with water is what the dealer did and left surface exposed to air before reinstalling carpet.

      Will check this evening as the weather finally dried up where I live.

      FYI - the dealer uses the the bulk container that has its own hoist and special spill-free hook-up. They also pressure tested the tank and it was fine. Everything points to a tech's negligence... but seriously... how?!?!? The fill system appears spill proof unless the hook-up was damaged. No one wants to tell me how the tech messed up the fill.

      And neither does anyone want to read the fact (and what's in the manual) that prolong exposure will damage parts and surfaces that come in contact with AdBlue. Note that this occurred on 4/21... the car was finally handed back on 5/11. VW CustomerCare pointed out the info in the manual, but I'm not sure if VWoA will do more than just monitor. At least present the facts and say it; they just won't admit it. Should someone who's financing a car at this price have to live with a vehicle that's been through this type of negligence and may have long term ownership pains? Can VWoA push the dealer to buy the vehicle back and set things right in the long run? I didn't sit down with their sales to buy a vehicle to have this happen.

      VWoA push to have the dealer own up to their mistake and take this car back. This car won't be the same in the long run.

    30. Member compu_85's Avatar
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      05-17-2012 09:33 AM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post

      VWoA push to have the dealer own up to their mistake and take this car back. This car won't be the same in the long run.
      Really? What did it weaken? The spare tire well? The seat leather? If the paint is not damaged I would think the metal underneath it is fine too. I'd be more worried about damage to the upholstery... something which is easily fixed by replacing the seat.

      -J
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    31. 05-17-2012 10:08 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
      Really? What did it weaken? The spare tire well? The seat leather? If the paint is not damaged I would think the metal underneath it is fine too. I'd be more worried about damage to the upholstery... something which is easily fixed by replacing the seat.

      -J
      Read up on AdBlue more. If left still exposed (and it's a persistent chemical) it will damage paint, parts, and eventually work at the metal in the long term. If you allow long term in the equation, a gray area for argument will be introduced always.

      I am not making this up. I keep repeating this.

      Read up on this and read up on it from more than one source. Plentiful information from truck makers, luxury car makers, fuel companies, etc etc.

      FYI - no exposed parts such as upholstery and carpet, etc etc was replaced.

    32. 05-17-2012 10:14 AM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
      Really? What did it weaken? The spare tire well? The seat leather? If the paint is not damaged I would think the metal underneath it is fine too. I'd be more worried about damage to the upholstery... something which is easily fixed by replacing the seat.

      -J
      That's the key problem - Crystallized Uric Acid will degrade galvanized steel & other ferrous compounds (that's why furniture w/cat urine stains have rusted/busted springs, connectors, etc.), and the trunk pan is a key component in rear crash protection, and it seems that this has been wiped across the rear seat belt mounts.

      Back to the OP - the dealer still is DIW. One does not "wipe" - rather, one "blots" with distilled water, replacing the blotting material (towel/sponge/whatever) frequently. "Wiping" UA crystals simply spreads them around...

      As far as the tech messing up - it's bc he didn't use the system. I'm still betting there was a jury rigged funnel that disappeared from the quick lube bay about 30 seconds after you complained to them...

      Purely as an aside, even an "external" fill has spill risks - and who rinses out under the fill cap?

      My $.02 is that DEF has been oversold as "safe", rather than what it is - another automotive fluid that requires proper handling.

    33. Member compu_85's Avatar
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      05-17-2012 10:59 AM #103
      I guess my point is... this isn't long term yet and seems like it is easily cleaned off of the metal before problems arise.

      Not that I want a dealer spilling it all over my car either
      2012 Passat TDI SE DSG. 60,000 miles. LED tails, VCDS tweaks (wipers, alarm, cluster)
      1999 Jetta "GLX" TDI. 296,000 miles. RCIII, BV49, S520, Knois.
      1991 Mercedes 350SDL. 225,000 miles, 60k on the replacement motor
      1991 Jetta GL ECOdiesel. 429,000 miles. Totaled
      1992 Jetta GL ECOdiesel. 150,000 miles. Sold.

    34. 05-17-2012 11:19 AM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
      I guess my point is... this isn't long term yet and seems like it is easily cleaned off of the metal before problems arise.

      Not that I want a dealer spilling it all over my car either
      Can be cleaned off? Yes. But how to prove thoroughly cleaned off?

      I just signed a deal to ride the bull of ownership on a vehicle in which I'm a long term guinnea pig. Hope I'm not back and forth from the dealer due to a tech's negligence. This is not what I signed up for when searching for a family vehicle in which I didn't want to 'turn a wrench on'. I leave the 'wrench turning' for the GTi.

      When it comes to AdBlue at VW dealers that do not frequently deal with it, there's not a lot of understanding in terms of handling of it, what it is, how to clean it up, or most importantly, if not cleaned up throughly 100% what it can do in the long run. At least that's the impression I get unless what I'm sensing is damage control to prevent it from escalating.
      Last edited by Imola Yellow GTi; 05-17-2012 at 12:38 PM.

    35. Junior Member scurvy's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 04:34 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      The car was 'detailed' and returned to me on the 3rd or 4th, but upon inspection at home, noticed the crystals were reforming around the LATCH and seatbelt anchor points.
      This alone would make me want to push to have the car replaced. How can they guarantee the long-term quality of the passenger restraints with crystallized AdBlu eating away at the seatbelts & ISOFIX anchors for the better part of a month (and possibly longer)?

      Quote Originally Posted by Imola Yellow GTi View Post
      Can be cleaned off? Yes. But how to prove thoroughly cleaned off?
      And therein lies the crux of the problem.
      You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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