Broken fuel pressure regular or exhaust leak?

[theirlaw]

After driving for about 20-30 minutes, I'm getting what smells like gas when I'm at a stop idling. It doesn't smell like rotten eggs, more like fuel. After the 30 minutes, my idle also gets a tiny bit rough and my car becomes sluggish and not as responsive. My overall gas mileage is also in the dumpster (about 250 miles per tank).

From what I've read, this could indicate both a bad FPR or an exhaust leak. Could anyone point me in the right direction? Car has no codes, but I do have VCDS if it'll help me diagnose the issue.

I also noted that I no longer have a release of pressure when I unscrew the gas cap. Could that indicate a fuel pressure issue related to a bad FPR? My fuel pump was replaced about two years ago... no problems after the install.

[groggory]

1 - What mods are on the car?

2 - What mileage?

3 - Please post pics of the plugs against a white background, no flash. What plugs are these? Also, check the gap.

4- Please perform an exhaust leak test (seafoam method) and intake pressure test (my faq method)

...

If you want to do some vag com logging ...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...4#post74388884

Post your fuel trims (block 032)

Do a 3rd gear pulls and post logs for blocks

002 - 031
115 - 020

[theirlaw]

Mileage:

156,000 kilometers (97,000 miles)

Mods:

Eurojet 3" turboback
EVOMS V-Flow
Forge 007P
Eurojet SMIC

Recently replaced:

MAF, MAP, plugs, intake filter

I do believe that when I pulled the old plugs, they were a bit black. I'll do the logging tonight.

[travis_gli]

Check for fuel leaks under your car and around your motor. Start with the sniff test and sniff around all the fuel line connections in the engine bay. If you smell fuel you likely have a leak. Could be your FPR or injector seals.

[groggory]

Mileage:

156,000 kilometers (97,000 miles)

Mods:

Eurojet 3" turboback
EVOMS V-Flow
Forge 007P
Eurojet SMIC

Recently replaced:

MAF, MAP, plugs, intake filter

I do believe that when I pulled the old plugs, they were a bit black. I'll do the logging tonight.

Cool.

No software / chip?

What make and model plugs? At what gap?

When you do your logging have a friend help and do a seafoam exhaust leak test too. Any pre-o2 sensor leak will cause you to run rich.

[theirlaw]

Check for fuel leaks under your car and around your motor. Start with the sniff test and sniff around all the fuel line connections in the engine bay. If you smell fuel you likely have a leak. Could be your FPR or injector seals.

I'll sniff for leaks when I get home. I really don't think there's any fuel making it to the floor of my garage though. Would have noticed by now.

Cool.

No software / chip?

What make and model plugs? At what gap?

When you do your logging have a friend help and do a seafoam exhaust leak test too. Any pre-o2 sensor leak will cause you to run rich.

My apologies... Unitronic Stage 2.

NGK BKR7E gapped at 0.032".

[Cody2003]

I've read a quick way to check the FPR is to remove the vacuum line attached to it. If any fuel comes out of the line the FPR may be bad.

[theirlaw]

I've read a quick way to check the FPR is to remove the vacuum line attached to it. If any fuel comes out of the line the FPR may be bad.

If I have a spare small hose clamp laying around, I'll definitely check.

[theirlaw]

Did some logging on the way to work...

Group 032 reported -4.1% (idle) and 10.9% (long term), which I believe means I'm running rich?

Groups 002, 031 and 115 can be found here.

I was at a light just as I started the logging, so the first three time stamps have my intake air at just over 3 g/s which I believe is normal.

What did trouble me was the specified/actual boost values. Aren't they a bit low?

Going to pull the vacuum line to the FPR tonight and do a Seafoam test to see if I can locate any exhaust leaks. I seriously appreciate all of the help you guys are providing.

[groggory]

Did some logging on the way to work...

Group 032 reported -4.1% (idle) and 10.9% (long term), which I believe means I'm running rich?

Groups 002, 031 and 115 can be found here.

I was at a light just as I started the logging, so the first three time stamps have my intake air at just over 3 g/s which I believe is normal.

What did trouble me was the specified/actual boost values. Aren't they a bit low?

Going to pull the vacuum line to the FPR tonight and do a Seafoam test to see if I can locate any exhaust leaks. I seriously appreciate all of the help you guys are providing.

Cool

Why 1 log... Not 2 logs?

[theirlaw]

Cool

Why 1 log... Not 2 logs?

Was late for work

I'll have the weekend to grab more logs. I also gotta grab block 020.

Is there anything glaring in the log that I did capture?

[bpfoley]

exhaust leaks tend to be more noticeable when cold, as metal expands the leak reduces, in a general sense.

[theirlaw]

exhaust leaks tend to be more noticeable when cold, as metal expands the leak reduces, in a general sense.

I guess I'll find out tonight. My Eurojet TB exhaust has probably seen better days, so I won't be surprised if it turns out it's leaking somewhere.

I just really want to resolve these issues. Been going on for too long and my gas mileage is complete garbage.

[groggory]

Here are my cliff notes:
* Your boost pressure is really tapering off up top. This makes me think that you have a leak at your exhaust manifold to head, a leak at your exhaust manifold to turbo, or a diverter valve leak. I would definitely do an exhaust leak test. Also, double check your diverter valve and your diverter valve control line. Make sure it has a good strong vac source to help hold the piston down.
* Your AFR is definitely in a safe zone, but it's down too low. This is robbing you of power and hurting your fuel economy. Once again, I would check for pre-o2 exhaust leaks. These leaks will cause you to run too rich.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9842192/theirlaw/Log.xlsx

[theirlaw]

Thanks for putting that together for me, groggory. Really appreciate it

I pulled my DV last week and serviced it. I did test whether or not the piston stayed open when I covered the vacuum nipple and it seemed okay. As far as the DV vacuum line, should I just check the hose? The hose is in decent shape, and I'm fairly certain it's sufficiently clamped. Could a vacuum leak elsewhere compromise the vacuum of the DV control line?

[groggory]

Could a vacuum leak elsewhere compromise the vacuum of the DV control line?

Definitely YES!

Do an intake leak test at 12 PSI and let's see if your vac system is up to par.

Also, are you running the N249 or is it deleted?

[theirlaw]

Definitely YES!

Do an intake leak test at 12 PSI and let's see if your vac system is up to par.

Also, are you running the N249 or is it deleted?

I'm running the N249. Nothing has been deleted.

I wish I didn't have to rely on my friend for a compressor... I've done pressure tests before and have my inlet pipe end cap just sitting at home waiting to be used. Argh

I guess I can't be too angry, though. My KW V1's are going on tomrorow

[redonkuless]

Have you seafoamed it yet? I read that you were going to attempt it but I might of missed if you did or didn't. Seafoam it and check for precat exhaust leaks. A leak will cause you to run rich and you will get that fuel smell as well since your car is running rich.

[theirlaw]

Have you seafoamed it yet? I read that you were going to attempt it but I might of missed if you did or didn't. Seafoam it and check for precat exhaust leaks. A leak will cause you to run rich and you will get that fuel smell as well since your car is running rich.

I'm off to pick up the Seafoam in about 5 minutes. Should be entertaining

On my way home I picked up some gas. As per usual, when I opened my gas cap, there wasn't a release of pressure that I was accustomed to. This has been happening for the last few months. I only put like 10 litres of gas in and off I drove. Whenever I fill up the car with any amount of gas, whether it be 10 litres or 40 litres, the car seems snappier when I drive away. On a whim, I decided to twist off the gas cap and to my surprise, there's actually a bit of pressure, although still not as much as I had before.

Is there some reason behind this? I swear that if I unscrew my gas cap after driving without filling up with gas, there will be no pressure. I've got a replacement gas cap on the way, and as I mentioned previously I did have my fuel pump changed a couple years ago and the fuel filter just before it, but other than that, nothing else fuel related has been touched.

Other than the gas cap and the fuel pump gasket, is there anything else I can check? I just get the feeling that there's at least somewhat of a contributing factor to my issues that's fuel related...

[redonkuless]

Im not too sure about the gas cap pressiure unfortunately. When you seafoam you might want to have a mirror in hand and a sock slightly covering the exhaust to create a little more pressure. It will make the smoke more visible if you do have a leak.

[groggory]

Im not too sure about the gas cap pressiure unfortunately. When you seafoam you might want to have a mirror in hand and a sock slightly covering the exhaust to create a little more pressure. It will make the smoke more visible if you do have a leak.

Yes at the sock idea

The gas cap problem is either a bad cap, a bad n80 valve, or a bad check valve in the evap system... I think there's 2 or 3. Check my vac diagrams in my FAQ to be sure

[theirlaw]

Yes at the sock idea

The gas cap problem is either a bad cap, a bad n80 valve, or a bad check valve in the evap system... I think there's 2 or 3. Check my vac diagrams in my FAQ to be sure

Well, I only had to suck up about 10ml of Seafoam to see what my problem was. Check out this gem. I probably should have seen this sooner, but at the end of the day I really am a car novice. Needless to say, I'm extremely happy that I found it

I also have some discoloration on two of the runners on the intake manifold, both above but mostly below the injectors. It doesn't smell like gas, but how likely is it that it is gas and that over time it has begun to build up? I gather my seals are toast and that I should just replace all of them? Are there two per cylinder?

I don't think I'm completely out of the woods yet, but obviously an exhaust leak of that magnitude is going to resolve the majority of my issues. Just wanna say thanks to all of you, particularly groggory, for all the assistance

[groggory]

Anytime

[redonkuless]

Glad you found out that issue. Good luck on changing the gaskets over, search up on the gasket install and you will find good advice to help. Make sure you have some PB blaster and hope you don't snap the studs. Lol, I did mine over the weekend and now I have to order studs because i snapped one trying to retighten them. But good luck nevertheless

[theirlaw]

Waiting on a new exhaust from 42DD now. In the meantime, replaced my gas cap. Surprisingly, car actually performs slightly better with the new cap.

However, I'm below a quarter tank of gas at the moment and my car stalled while turning into my parking spot at work. Power steering pump pulley? Something else fuel related because of my low fuel level?

[groggory]

Are you 100% sure you have a quarter tank still?

[theirlaw]

Are you 100% sure you have a quarter tank still?

Probably between 1/8 and 1/4. Let's just call it 1/8.

[groggory]

Probably between 1/8 and 1/4. Let's just call it 1/8.

Could be lots of things...

Go fill up your tank and if it happens again, then we'll dig into it. For now, just consider it an anomaly.

[theirlaw]

Could be lots of things...

Go fill up your tank and if it happens again, then we'll dig into it. For now, just consider it an anomaly.

I feel like I must note that it has stalled turning into the same parking spot before (both times turning right) and once after actually getting gas and pulling out of the gas station, the battery light managed to flash a few times as it almost stalled. I was turning left that time.

[groggory]

I feel like I must note that it has stalled turning into the same parking spot before (both times turning right) and once after actually getting gas and pulling out of the gas station, the battery light managed to flash a few times as it almost stalled. I was turning left that time.

When you turn the wheel near the far end of the rack you hit a pressure switch on the power steering pump. This tells the ECU ' HEY! I need more power steering pressure! Crank up the RRRRrrrr's. ' So then the ECU increases RPMs which in turn makes the power steering pump run faster which increases power steering pressure. The increase in pressure gives you more power steering assist so you can turn the wheel easily.

But in doing that, it creates more load on the engine. It's similar to you turning on your A/C. A/C puts more load on the engine.

The fact that your battery light is flashing makes me question your battery and your alternator.

How old is your battery?
Hold old is your alternator?

Go to autozone and have your battery and alternator checked out.

Go home and check all your grounds and your major power straps. If you need help identifying what grounds and power straps just let me know and I'll list all that come to mind.

[theirlaw]

The battery light flashing was just that one time I was turning because it was on the verge of stalling. Had I continued to turn, I'm fairly certain it would have stalled similar to what I experienced today.

Battery is actually brand new, no more than a couple thousand kilometers with it. Alternator is probably the original that came with the car (2003).

No idea what the grounds and power straps are

[groggory]

The battery light flashing was just that one time I was turning because it was on the verge of stalling. Had I continued to turn, I'm fairly certain it would have stalled similar to what I experienced today.

Battery is actually brand new, no more than a couple thousand kilometers with it. Alternator is probably the original that came with the car (2003).

No idea what the grounds and power straps are

With a high quality volt meter (or multimeter)

With engine off....

Check voltage from positive battery terminal -> valve cover

Check voltage from positive battery terminal -> negative battery terminal

Check voltage from positive battery terminal -> screw on alternator

Check voltage from positive battery terminal -> the wire side of each fuse in the fuse box on top of the battery (7 or 8 I think)

Check voltage from positive battery terminal to a bare screw on the chassis such as the ones on the strut tower

...Always scratch the surface that you're checking a bit with the voltage probes so you are getting a good reading. There is usually a little grime or oxidation that you want to scratch away so your reading actually means something.

[theirlaw]

Thanks for the info. What is that going to tell me? If everything is grounded properly?

[groggory]

Grounded properly and alternator is hooked up properly

Post up your readings